Modern Vespa

Hats off to you - great job!

Nice work. That's really sharp looking. I like the blue a lot.

Epic thread!
Took me a while skimming thru the pages but it was worth it.
Congrats on a stellar restoration project.......

Just in time to ride through that great fall color! Looks real sharp. Enjoy.

Looks great!! What a journey

Proper.

Thanks for the kind comments. Restoring this scooter took a ridiculous amount of time. But I feel like I now have the knowledge to keep a Vespa on the road indefinitely.

Best of all, the whole project turned me into a passable painter. It should make my VBB and bus paint projects go a lot better.

Next up is some cleaning up on the Stella. I'm planning to do some touch ups and blends using reduced rust oleum with acrylic enamel hardener. I have some racing stripes and some extra legshield trim. I'm also going to rebadge it as a Vespa…or maybe a Renault. Just a little fun with the least amount of work.

But most of all, some riding.

I vote for re-badging as a Renault!

I'm thinking that too! My first car was an '82 Renault Fuego that I had painted a Porsche polar silver. It was the best looking car I ever owned. I have the Fuego badge too. It would fit perfectly on the cowl strip.

I'm looking forward to a picture of the racing stripes in situ. I wanted to do something like that on the VBB's legshield, but black-only checkers. Never could find them online to order.

aaand...tried searching just for fun and immediately came up with something close... I expect they'd need to be cut down two squares, but could work...

I cut squares out of electrical tape back in the 80's to do checkers on my cowls and helmet. Rude boy sticker on the legshield and mod parka…I thought I was hot shit.

The pattern you found looks sharp.

I have this tradition with my neighbor where he presents me with a First Cav sticker whenever I get something on the road. Everything I drive has one. It starts a lot of interesting conversations when I get thanked for my service. I tell them about my neighbor, his service and our friendship. So far, no one has accused me of impersonating a vet. He gave me one for the Stella, but it's big enough for a helicopter, so I found a smaller version that will fit on the stripe.

A scooter already screams Death from Above so I thought understated might be better.

Still shaking out the new ride…literally. Shit just shakes itself loose. 70's air cooled transportation would prefer to be a trail of parts on the road.

Seems about right.

Nothing much to report which is a good thing.

Put a mirror on the 200. Left hand mirror is the only one of use and the only one regally required as far as I know. Still breaking in this bike.

I haven't even started the VR-1 engine yet. Received air bellows and a choke cable yesterday, but I think I'm still missing something. That's not what has been holding me back though.

The VMC 187 engine that I was ready to shelve indefinitely has been running well on the Stella. CHT's are good. It has been a joy to ride even while playing with the jetting a bit.

I could push the VR-1 build and get it in the Stella, but I would end up spending what's left of riding season shaking it out. Instead, I'm going to enjoy riding what I have.

You're learning, by resisting that urge and deciding to ride.

Especially when you live somewhere that "limited riding season" is a Real Thing. I wasn't aware that Upstate New York, was now a monarchy, but I hope it's at least a Constitutional Monarchy.

I had this vision of the queen waving a white gloved hand while riding my scooter.

This is probably the best part of riding season; warm and dry with gorgeous views.

I'm also still learning to ride and getting used to higher speeds. I don't think I've been over 60mph yet. Combination of small roads, small balls and building trust that my home built engines won't hard seize.

Problem with having big balls is they tend to throw off the balance (of the bike) when they start swaying around figure 8 corners....and sometimes they might scrape on the low side. There are advantages of having shrink dink and raisin bags (sometimes).

A short video of one of my first "highway" trip the Stella. I had high CHT issues with it last year that made these kind of rides impossible. Still fine tuning the jetting, but it's been great fun.

When I had my first scooter in the 80's, conventional wisdom was to get a 200 if you wanted more power than a 150. I really see the appeal of kitted small block engines. I like the stock 200, but the 187 engine is more fun. Revs higher, quicker acceleration. I think it's become my favorite ride. It feels a lot more stable with new shocks and bushings. Should be even better when I put the new Heidenau K58's on.

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Which flavour did you choose? There are some four different compounds no?!

I'm not sure. The tires on both bikes were old modern street tires. The 200 feels a lot more planted on k'38's and also got new shocks and buffers. It makes a big difference.

If you can find them and don't mind a really short tread life, get the K58S. It's technically the snow tire, but they're the stickiest thing you'll ever put on a bike.

Thanks. Good to know for the next set.

I have Mitas MC20 Monson normal compound. Comes in a track compound too: Marked ´not for highway use´.

Lingering question I had regarding my rebuilt 200 engine.

I am still getting more vibration than I would expect. It is better, but I would describe it as the same vibration but diminished. Buzzy through the handlebars and floorboards throughout the rpm range.

Last rebuild I replaced the crank, top end (new stock Piaggio) and main bearings. The primary has been rebuilt and gearbox end play well within spec. It has new buffers and is even in a different (p200e)frame. The old crank had a fair amount of runout. New one checked out. The only parts of the rotating mass that haven't been replaced are the flywheel and clutch, though I did try a Stella flywheel-no change.

The only thing I have to compare it to is my VMC 187 engine, which is smoother. Sometimes I will get a similar vibration with this engine just before 7000 rpm, but it quickly passes.

Still wondering if I am chasing a ghost or a real thing. It otherwise runs and shifts nicely. Thanks.

You probably need to figure out the Balance Factor of the crank vs. the piston and adjust (i.e. drill holes and/or add weight) to the crank accordingly.

Could I just live with it? If it is not somehow detrimental to the engine or an indication that something is wrong, I'm ok with it.

That's up to you. The motor is generally okay, but I guess it doesn't feel as smooth. I'd guess that the percentage of tuned motors that have it explicitly accounted for is vanishingly small.

I've only recently started to check it and have yet to actually modify my cranks to account for it.

What I can say is that when I measured my Malossi P200 crank, the balance factor would have been perfect with a Malossi 210 piston, but it was not as good with the M1XL piston.

Crank balancing to the piston is a thing. Vibration from this when not correct is less felt but usually breaks things that shouldn't break. Like Fan covers, exhaust mounting, end can, CDI bracket etc....

Grumbling vibration felt through the grips is most likely the usual suspects, jetting, compression or ignition timing.

Thanks! I'm will go through those things first. I think I have pretty much ruled out mechanical factors.

Took the 200 out for a ride yesterday. Still getting the vibration that Jack described…the buzzy tingling feeling through the grips and floorboards.

The engine is fully rebuilt and stock with the exception for fa SIP R2 and 26/26 carb.

I'm wondering how timing, jetting and compression relate to vibration. The timing is set to A/T, but I will check do my own timing marks and time it with a light.

As for jetting, I am running a 26-26 autolube carb , 55/160, 160/be3/120.

I haven't checked compression.
Also wondering about the clutch. It's the only thing on the engine that hasn't been replaced.

I'm wondering how timing, compression and jetting affect vibration. I haven't been able to find info about it.

I might consider balancing the crank/piston if the above doesn't help.

Thanks.

If you pull the crank, measure its balance factor. That's one I only learned about recently, but I did it with the Malossi full circle in the GL right now and determined that if I'd put it with a 200 cc top end, it'd have been perfect. As it is, it's sub-perfect, but still within the acceptable range of results.

Acceptable enough that I wasn't going to buy a drill press and start poking holes my my crank, at least.

Thanks!

How do the other variables; jetting, timing and compression effect vibration? I would like to rule these out before splitting the cases.

Other than rough running, which manifests itself in other ways, I don't know that they really do when compared to the impact of having the crank off true or unbalanced. Especially at higher RPM's.

I don't know that, but also don't think vibration changes noticeably with other tuning changes.

I guess my assumption was with a stock engine running in the typical rpm ranges that balance/vibration wouldn't be an issue. Maybe the 177/87 kits I have run on the Stella are just smoother than the stock 200. Factory p&c's look pretty agricultural in comparison.

At this point, I doubt that I could make myself build a stock engine again as even a mildly tuned engine is just so much better…without even affecting reliability.

It may just be overly rich jetting.

Do you have poly bushings in the rear?

New stock bushings

How bone stock is this 200. Can't remember. Completely factory apart from the 26/26?

Sip Road 2. Short 4th. New stock mazz crank. New Piaggio P and C. Original clutch.

Not so much change then. Change the stock AC160 for AC140, re do the main jet. If still the original 3-4mm squish clearance, confirm the timing is exactly 23 degrees.
If it still vibrates, try to get used to it until the next time it's split and the crank can be balanced properly.