Tue Apr 12, 2022 5:39 am

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Tue Apr 12, 2022 5:39 am linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
I can go take a look at the hub on my Stella later today and see if it's LML-specific if no one who knows better chimes in first.

I suspect it is, though. I don't recall the clearances being that tight, but I also haven't touched that wheel in a few years, so I might have blocked from memory of any adventures I had with it.
Thank you. It might not be that tight a clearance. I didn't get a good look at it. Easy enough to grind down the bolt head. I might just pull the hub, get it on the bench, oil and chase all the threads and make life easier rather than squinting at it like Mr. Magoo on the floor. I still got time.
Tue Apr 12, 2022 5:42 am

Lucky
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Lucky
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Tue Apr 12, 2022 5:42 am linkquote
For being a major steel exporter, domestic Indian steel can be pretty garbage, as you're experiencing.

I had to cut the bolts off to replace the brake disc some years ago, but they'd also had road salt exposure, so you may get off easier than I did.
Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:03 am

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Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:03 am linkquote
Those are not SIP rims. Probably F.A. (should be stamped from the inside) or their cheap Chinese clones sold on Ali. If they're the Chinese ones, maybe reconsider, people say they're not safe. And I think they're 2.50x10 so they'll be a bit off center…



Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:08 am

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Tue Apr 12, 2022 6:08 am linkquote
SaFiS wrote:
Those are not SIP rims. Probably F.A. (should be stamped from the inside) or their cheap Chinese clones sold on Ali. If they're the Chinese ones, maybe reconsider, people say they're not safe. And I think they're 2.50x10 so they'll be a bit off center…
Actually, there are no markings on the rim other than the size (2.5x10). There was only one that had a mounted tire.

I as able to get the stud out without damaging the threads in the hub. Another one started backing out as I was chasing it with a nut, so I took that one out too. The other 3 cleaned up ok but we're still a little snaggy. Hardware store is closed but I'm going to throw an M8 button bolt in there if I can dig one up just to see if the head clears the caliper.



Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:02 am

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Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:02 am linkquote
After poking around a little, I found a lot of info on this hub and even a list of bikes it was used on. I will probably order one as a spare from somewhere and use some cap bolts on the one on the bike. I'm not pulling the hub until I have the other one in hand. It's just an invitation to strip more stuff as the caliper has to come off to remove it. Ideally, I would use real studs and stake them on the bench but I will just end up beating the shit out of it if I try to do that on the bike, so hardened dome head bolts and red loctite it is. I tried a hex head bolt and it does foul the caliper.




Any info on this light. High beam is off, low beam is on. Is this how it should work?

Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:28 am

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Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:28 am linkquote
I always replace them with M8x35mm when tubeless rims are involved. More threads for the closed nuts. If you're going for normal split rims, M8x30mm are fine…
Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:38 am

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Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:38 am linkquote
SaFiS wrote:
I always replace them with M8x35mm when tubeless rims are involved. More threads for the closed nuts. If you're going for normal split rims, M8x30mm are fine…
I was thinking that too. Now that the remaining studs are cleaned up, they should back out pretty easily. The lug nuts I have may not be great quality either. I'm going to chase them with a bolt and some cutting oil before putting them on the bike. Probably will change the pads when I'm done as I got pb blaster on them… 🫤
Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:06 am

Lucky
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Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:06 am linkquote
I tried an LED bulb that looks exactly like the one you showed a few years ago, even down to the fan. It was pretty bright, but died early on. I suspect overheating go to it.

It was a relatively cheap Amazon experiment, definitely disposable if it's not working correctly. I don't recall anything strange about it while it was working, though.
Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:39 am

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Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:39 am linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
I tried an LED bulb that looks exactly like the one you showed a few years ago, even down to the fan. It was pretty bright, but died early on. I suspect overheating go to it.

It was a relatively cheap Amazon experiment, definitely disposable if it's not working correctly. I don't recall anything strange about it while it was working, though.
Thanks! I might just put in a stock bulb for having it inspected. So far, no electrical issues. I even got the neutral light working. I would post a video of it running but have never uploaded a video to YouTube.

I haven't touched the 200 in awhile but it will be easier with all the parts for one scooter accounted for. Lots of little P parts to clean, sort and replace. Hopefully easier second time around.

I can't wait to ride it, but still have to do the paperwork and get a motorcycle license. I haven't had one since 1991 and that was in Ontario.
Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:48 am

Lucky
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Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:48 am linkquote
I rode my Stella for a year before getting my M endorsement. And since there was a riding test, I even rode it to the DMV for that and nobody said a thing. Of course, I was still on an out-of-state license, so I was already going to have issues if I got pulled over anyway.

This was also downtown Chicago, where "running a stop sign* while going the wrong way on a one way, almost hitting both a cop car and me in the crosswalk" was not enough to get enough to get some jackass pulled over.

I mean, is it really even a crime if you don't get pulled over?

* Is it still a stop sign if it's facing the other way?
Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:03 am

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Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:03 am linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
I rode my Stella for a year before getting my M endorsement. And since there was a riding test, I even rode it to the DMV for that and nobody said a thing. Of course, I was still on an out-of-state license, so I was already going to have issues if I got pulled over anyway.

This was also downtown Chicago, where "running a stop sign* while going the wrong way on a one way, almost hitting both a cop car and me in the crosswalk" was not enough to get enough to get some jackass pulled over.

I mean, is it really even a crime if you don't get pulled over?

* Is it still a stop sign if it's facing the other way?
I did that when I lived in Toronto and got ticketed twice, once at a dui checkpoint at night and another for having my girlfriend on the back. Officer said the checker pattern on my girlfriend's helmet covered the DOT sticker. I guess I had a target on my back…which I did…the whole mod fishtail parka thing and all the RAF crap on it. I'm glad I live in the sticks now with lots of winding back roads.
Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:08 pm

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Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:08 pm linkquote
I found some possibilities to replace the wheel studs.

Found some automotive studs but I'm not sure if I will be able to stake them.

I could cut the shank off the socket head bolts which would mean I would have a thicker section behind the hub.

I could only find button head bolts in stainless. I'm not sure is stainless is hard enough for a wheel stud.

Any thoughts?

I'm probably overthinking this.



Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:29 pm

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Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:29 pm linkquote
I wouldn't really worry about a stainless, you've got 4 others...
Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:29 pm

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Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:29 pm linkquote
If the button heads don't interfere with the caliper, they're perfectly fine. I too use stainless ones. On the star hub I have the button heads would hit the caliper so I used set screws, loctite and then pined them with a conical drift punch...


Front star hub


Rear hub

Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:10 pm

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Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:10 pm linkquote
SaFiS wrote:
If the button heads don't interfere with the caliper, they're perfectly fine. I too use stainless ones. On the star hub I have the button heads would hit the caliper so I used set screws, loctite and then pined them with a conical drift punch...
*cracks a cold one*

*picks up one of my gatitos*

*looks at the grill*

you're a stud

*shit! the burgers!*
Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:18 pm

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Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:18 pm linkquote
Thanks!

Actually 2 stainless but who's counting. The original studs didn't seem like the greatest steel and I bet a lot of people just grab whatever M8 nut they can find.

I'm going to throw a stock rim on it for now, just to get rolling.
Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:08 am

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Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:08 am linkquote
I ended up ordering the Star hub from SIP through Scooter Mercato. I could probably get what I have working but it kind of freaks me out farm fixing a front wheel hub. I could maybe have a machinist stake in automotive studs on the one I have, but at least I will have a new one as a backup.



Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:56 pm

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Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:56 pm linkquote
I feel kind of like a chickenshit and I hate how the star hub looks but don't have a enough experience to know what I can get away with. To think the vbb only has 4 stumpy little studs.

The technique for mushrooming over the back of the studs is called swedging. I'm going to have a machinist look at it tomorrow. A couple of the other studs don't look great either. Worth a try.

Scooter Mercato was really helpful tracking down a hub. Dave asked me if I went to college and how much it cost. His point was that it cost a lot more than a new hub. Point taken.
Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:07 pm

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Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:07 pm linkquote
If you dislike the star-shaped hub that much, instead order the Classic style hub. It looks just like standard, numerous vendors overseas carry it; and Mercato can do the special order for you. Other USA venders may have one in stock.

Or you can replace the studs on your current hub with Buttonhead allen bolts, as suggested above. It is a bit of work, but totally doable for the average wrench turner. M8x35 is the way to go, as Safis Suggested. Good luck either way
Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:46 pm

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Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:46 pm linkquote
GeekLion wrote:
If you dislike the star-shaped hub that much, instead order the Classic style hub. It looks just like standard, numerous vendors overseas carry it; and Mercato can do the special order for you. Other USA venders may have one in stock.

Or you can replace the studs on your current hub with Buttonhead allen bolts, as suggested above. It is a bit of work, but totally doable for the average wrench turner. M8x35 is the way to go, as Safis Suggested. Good luck either way
I have not found the classic style hub anywhere….only for drum brakes and not disc.

I was able to get the button head bolts to fit after grinding down the head to clear the caliper. It's just that I can only find them in stainless.
Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:52 pm

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Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:52 pm linkquote
Grimeca NT Classic but they're out of stock…
Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:21 pm

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Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:21 pm linkquote
I'm having a hard time finding info on removing the front hub. It looks like only the bolt and caliper need to be removed for the hub to come off.
Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:32 pm

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Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:32 pm linkquote
wow, that's tight as balls!

a button head, a little grind on that or swedge that shizz on a regular stud. either way, ALL of the red loc-tite.

but you got it right, pull the hub and do it on the bench. doing it on the bike is just an invitation for disaster or frustration.
Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:00 pm

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Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:00 pm linkquote
greasy125 wrote:
wow, that's tight as balls!

a button head, a little grind on that or swedge that shizz on a regular stud. either way, ALL of the red loc-tite.

but you got it right, pull the hub and do it on the bench. doing it on the bike is just an invitation for disaster or frustration.
Just not sure how to get the hub off.
Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:08 pm

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Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:08 pm linkquote
orwell84 wrote:
Just not sure how to get the hub off.
pull the wheel, pull the caliper off, nut in the middle on the axle, pull the speedo drive gear out and the whole thing should just fall into your lap with some judicious hammer strikes.
Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:10 pm

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Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:10 pm linkquote
I also wouldn't hesitate to remove material from the caliper either. Be smart about it though. Don't go grind deep enough to gouge into the fluid port. I've had to do that to many different calipers over the years (Jeep, cars, pick'em-up trucks, motorcycles, and yes Vespa scooters).
Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:11 pm

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Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:11 pm linkquote
greasy125 wrote:
pull the wheel, pull the caliper off, nut in the middle on the axle, pull the speedo drive gear out and the whole thing should just fall into your lap with some judicious hammer strikes.
Ahhh, ok. The speedo drive gear…I assume the circlip is left alone as that retains the bearings…which should come off with the hub.
Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:25 pm

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Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:25 pm linkquote
orwell84 wrote:
Ahhh, ok. The speedo drive gear…I assume the circlip is left alone as that retains the bearings…which should come off with the hub.
yeah the drive gear will snag up the whole thing. no need to remove bearings so let the circles lay. unless you're pulling the caliper carrier it's just that one nut and you should be golden. you can let the caliper just hang no need to break the system.
Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:09 pm

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Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:09 pm linkquote
greasy125 wrote:
yeah the drive gear will snag up the whole thing. no need to remove bearings so let the circles lay. unless you're pulling the caliper carrier it's just that one nut and you should be golden. you can let the caliper just hang no need to break the system.
And you were right. Came right off and I found a broken speedo cable.

I knew I should've left the rotor alone but I didn't. I sorted it out. Pulled one more wonky stud and unlike all the others, it fought me.

I love reading manuals that were written 20 years ago that say, "quality replacements are readily available" and after mauling it you find out it's like the last one on earth.


Always one bolt that won't play nicely.


Little bastard…


Went straight to the I'm not fucking around.


Not too shabby…

Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:11 pm

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Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:11 pm linkquote
Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:37 pm

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Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:37 pm linkquote
qascooter wrote:
Thanks!

This kind of thing can be discouraging at times, but it's totally the nature of this kind of thing. It's probably not worth it in terms of time and money if you don't enjoy the work and are only focused on the end product.
Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:43 pm

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Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:43 pm linkquote
whodatschrome wrote:
I also wouldn't hesitate to remove material from the caliper either. Be smart about it though. Don't go grind deep enough to gouge into the fluid port. I've had to do that to many different calipers over the years (Jeep, cars, pick'em-up trucks, motorcycles, and yes Vespa scooters).
Just saw that. I considered that but spotted the fluid port. But I will keep it in mind if I have to. Thanks!
Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:57 pm

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Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:57 pm linkquote
orwell84 wrote:
Thanks!

This kind of thing can be discouraging at times, but it's totally the nature of this kind of thing. It's probably not worth it in terms of time and money if you don't enjoy the work and are only focused on the end product.
EXACTLY all of this. The rewards far outweight the efforts. A job well done, by you; and new skills learned along the way is the best payout. The ride is all about the journey. Way to get after it!
Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:33 am

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Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:33 am linkquote
Sorry to still be wringing my hands about this.

The machinist did not want to touch this. He said he had no way to swage the studs and didn't want to stake them for me.

I did find some different automotive studs that will actually bottom out. I could use these or straight studs with red loctite and just stake the back with a punch. I don't think the staking part is as important as it's the actual threads on the hub that hold the wheel.

Thanks for bearing with me through my OCD.


Sorry for the blurry pic.


Stud installed finger tight.


Backside


With stock rim

Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:47 pm

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Sat Apr 16, 2022 1:47 pm linkquote
I think I have figured out what I'm going to do. The studs I have with the shoulder look like the threads will be in the wrong place…too far away from the hub because of the shoulder.

I am going to use the straight threaded automotive studs, screw them in with red loctite, so that a few threads are showing at the back of the hub and pean around the stud with a punch or chisel.

Is this ok?

Thanks.
Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:39 pm

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Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:39 pm linkquote
Ok, I promise, this is the last time I will beat this very dead horse.

I ended up getting some grade 8.8 hex bolts and grinding down the tops. Chased one of the hub threads with a tap and used a die on an iffy stud.

Cleaned the threads with acetone and a bore brush and installed with red loctite. Kind of took awhile. I also lopped off the top of a lug nut and ran a tap through it in case I wanted to use them with the longer studs.

Please let me know if this is crazy unsafe, don't ride yer scoot not even to go for ice cream.

Thanks.


I think this was my crappiest thread. I can't remember.


Modified hex bolts


These should clear the caliper and I can always take a little off once it's on the bike.

Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:40 am

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Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:40 am linkquote
greasy125 wrote:
what is this, amateur hour?


It was! Had to figure something out with having only one usable arm at the time.
Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:45 am

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Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:45 am linkquote
I don't have a scissors jack, but a floor jack that works just as well. ATV jack is great but gets in the way when installing an engine.

I still consider myself an amateur with these bikes. Lots of VW experience but before this I had only ever pulled apart a p series in the basement of my dorm in 1989.
Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:47 am

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Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:47 am linkquote
Just have to get the hub and wheel back on and go for a ride. Hopefully before the snow hits.
Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:04 am

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Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:04 am linkquote
orwell84 wrote:
Just have to get the hub and wheel back on and go for a ride. Hopefully before the snow hits.
We're getting just rain down here. A very cold rain. Wednesday on though is back into the riding weather! Good luck with the studs. I gotta do the same on mine I think.

I got a jack now, but the roll the engine over to the frame bit worked flawlessly when I didn't have the lift yet *shrugs*
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