Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:05 pm

Hooked
2016 Mp3 500ie Sport
Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 143
Location: California
 
Hooked
2016 Mp3 500ie Sport
Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 143
Location: California
Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:05 pm linkquote
Has anyone successfully removed the EVAP Canister and related system from a 2016 or new Mp3 500 series? Where there any changes or issues performance or fuel handling?

Instead of fully removing it, could it be repositioned to be less obtrusive? Perhaps in the gap between the outer side panels and the under seat storage might work. Legally only the charcoal collector is needed, the rest is just equipment to protect against tip-overs, etc.

I'm going on a trip and want more space in the interior under seat storage.

The existing documentation in the forum and WIKI is for the older series MP3 or other Piaggio models. According to local law all I legally need is the EVAP canister but even then its a stretch as the shops that service the bike never check for it and the DMV never checks for it.
Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:37 am

Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 22393
Location: Nashville, Indiana
 
Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 22393
Location: Nashville, Indiana
Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:37 am linkquote
Basically it is one of those things the manufacturer has to comply with but no one, last I heard, checks to see if the system is intact once it is sold.

I have done a few on older model but I assume it is the same crappy system. It consists of a hose from the intake manifold to the charcoal canister. Another hose from the charcoal canister to the rollover valve and then another hose from there to the gas tank.

The hose from the gas tank to the rollover valve can be cut on the tank side at the rollover valve and pushed down through the frame towards the ground.

The hose from the intake manifold can be cut and sealed with a nut or some kind of plug with a hose clamp. The rest of the crap can be removed and yeeted into the sun.
Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:47 pm

Hooked
2016 Mp3 500ie Sport
Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 143
Location: California
 
Hooked
2016 Mp3 500ie Sport
Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 143
Location: California
Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:47 pm linkquote
Thank you for the reply, it sounds like its not too different on the newer models vs the older hardware. The components look the same so the hoses are then presumably also the same.

I will make the attempt to remove it in the next few days and do my best to document the process for others.
Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:24 pm

Hooked
2019 MP3 500 Sport
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 187
Location: California
 
Hooked
2019 MP3 500 Sport
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 187
Location: California
Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:24 pm linkquote
There were long discussions on this in the Beemer R1100 forums in the early 2000s. Nobody saw any adverse effects from removing those silly California things. I'll look into removing mine too.
Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:10 pm

Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 22393
Location: Nashville, Indiana
 
Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 22393
Location: Nashville, Indiana
Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:10 pm linkquote
pinheadh78 wrote:
Thank you for the reply, it sounds like its not too different on the newer models vs the older hardware. The components look the same so the hoses are then presumably also the same.

I will make the attempt to remove it in the next few days and do my best to document the process for others.
That would be great. You can add it to the wiki.
Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:07 pm

Hooked
2016 Mp3 500ie Sport
Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 143
Location: California
 
Hooked
2016 Mp3 500ie Sport
Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 143
Location: California
Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:07 pm linkquote
Some preliminary research prior to starting the project.

Mitch's Scooter Stuff has a good video of removal based on the Piaggio Fly. Looks to be the same components and system used on the Mp3. Its worth a watch on how to bypass the system and minimize post removal problems.

The service manual for the 2016 series Mp3 describes it as "Anti-evaporation system" and is found on pages 49 - 52. Not much information other than it gives a view of the hoses and components. Those hoses and components match up with the video (above) and the existing documentation on the Mp3 Wiki.

Next step
* Buy some components: 1/4 x 1/4 inch Vacuum Connectors, 1/4 inch Vacuum Caps, hose clamps, some 1/4 in plastic tubbing and foam for a filter.
* Start the process and document steps with photos when I next have about 4 hours free time.
Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:28 pm

Enthusiast
mp3 500 2018 (USA-version)
Joined: 21 Apr 2020
Posts: 60
Location: Belarus, Minsk
 
Enthusiast
mp3 500 2018 (USA-version)
Joined: 21 Apr 2020
Posts: 60
Location: Belarus, Minsk
Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:28 pm linkquote
I did it. (MP3 500 2018 (USA)). A tank vent valve must be installed in the hose that is connected to the fuel tank. It allows air to enter the fuel tank. But prevents fuel from spilling out when the scooter capsizes. Also, gasoline vapors do not come out of the tank. I wouldn't "yeeted into the sun" .....
Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:12 am

Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 22393
Location: Nashville, Indiana
 
Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 22393
Location: Nashville, Indiana
Thu Jan 06, 2022 7:12 am linkquote
Bylead wrote:
I did it. (MP3 500 2018 (USA)). A tank vent valve must be installed in the hose that is connected to the fuel tank. It allows air to enter the fuel tank. But prevents fuel from spilling out when the scooter capsizes. Also, gasoline vapors do not come out of the tank. I wouldn't "yeeted into the sun" .....
Actually a vent valve is not necessary as long as the vent hose is run to the bottom of the frame but as long as it works correctly and allows the tank to breath I guess it is fine.

On my first removal I put an full filter in the hose as a precaution to not allow dust into the tank but I think that was overkill so on my second two I just left the hose open. I have had two instances where I have ended up on my side with an MP3 and never spilled a drop of gas.
Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:15 pm

Hooked
2016 Mp3 500ie Sport
Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 143
Location: California
 
Hooked
2016 Mp3 500ie Sport
Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 143
Location: California
Fri Jan 07, 2022 6:15 pm linkquote
Hi Folks
Task completed, took only a couple hours as I was being cautious and careful. Turns out I did not have to completely remove the side plastic body panel; just loosen it so I can reach through with tools.

I'll formulate and post a WiKi how later but the task was honestly allot easier than expected. I did not remove the input / output hoses. Rather I just removed the canister and rest of the EVAP system then joined the two hoses with a 1/4 vacuum connectors to close the circuit.

Gained almost a cubic foot of space and reduced the weight by 1.2 Lbs.

I've kept all the parts incase I need to put it back together for a fix-it ticket. When going to the dealer or a shop for work I'll just put the plastic cover back on even though there is nothing under it.


Before showing how much space the plastic cover over the EVAP system takes up.


After


EVAP canister and rollover valve with bracket weigh about 1.2 lb.

Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:26 pm

Hooked
2019 MP3 500 Sport
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 187
Location: California
 
Hooked
2019 MP3 500 Sport
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 187
Location: California
Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:26 pm linkquote
Wow. I have to do this!
Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:34 pm

Hooked
2016 Mp3 500ie Sport
Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 143
Location: California
 
Hooked
2016 Mp3 500ie Sport
Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 143
Location: California
Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:34 pm linkquote
Update. The bike refused to start this morning.

In a bit of a "Duh" moment I realized my mistake. Its a "Vacuum" system so when I joined the two separate cables together with the 1/4in vacuum connector it changed the dynamics of the system. The bike would not start because the air fuel mixture was all wrong.

When I separated the hoses a bit of gas leaked out due to the suction in the system . In hindsight this was foretold and telegraphed by others but some how I didn't quite connect the dots.

With the hoses separated and able to breath the bike coughed to life burning the excess fuel in the system and is now running fine.

Next steps..... First, figure out a way to re-join the charcoal cannister to capture any fuel or vapors in the line. Second, find a way to mount it outside the storage compartment. Having the charcoal canister re-added also makes the bike CA-Legal so I don't have to worry about a fix-it ticket if I'm caught. Third, an outside vent with filter (1/4in vacuum T-joint?) so the system doesn't have the same problem again.
Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:30 am

Enthusiast
mp3 500 2018 (USA-version)
Joined: 21 Apr 2020
Posts: 60
Location: Belarus, Minsk
 
Enthusiast
mp3 500 2018 (USA-version)
Joined: 21 Apr 2020
Posts: 60
Location: Belarus, Minsk
Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:30 am linkquote
stickyfrog wrote:
Actually a vent valve is not necessary as long as the vent hose is run to the bottom of the frame but as long as it works correctly and allows the tank to breath I guess it is fine.

On my first removal I put an full filter in the hose as a precaution to not allow dust into the tank but I think that was overkill so on my second two I just left the hose open. I have had two instances where I have ended up on my side with an MP3 and never spilled a drop of gas.
Gasoline vapors burn very well. I can't afford to take that risk.
Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:16 pm

Hooked
2019 MP3 500 Sport
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 187
Location: California
 
Hooked
2019 MP3 500 Sport
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 187
Location: California
Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:16 pm linkquote
pinheadh78 wrote:
...

With the hoses separated and able to breath the bike coughed to life burning the excess fuel in the system and is now running fine.

Next steps..... First, figure out a way to re-join the charcoal cannister to capture any fuel or vapors in the line. Second, find a way to mount it outside the storage compartment. Having the charcoal canister re-added also makes the bike CA-Legal so I don't have to worry about a fix-it ticket if I'm caught. Third, an outside vent with filter (1/4in vacuum T-joint?) so the system doesn't have the same problem again.
So you don't recommend eliminating it? seems a bit gain in storage space, and I have never once heard of anyone having to fix it. Same with catalysts on motorcycles.
Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:25 pm

Hooked
2016 Mp3 500ie Sport
Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 143
Location: California
 
Hooked
2016 Mp3 500ie Sport
Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 143
Location: California
Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:25 pm linkquote
Quote:
So you don't recommend eliminating it? seems a bit gain in storage space, and I have never once heard of anyone having to fix it. Same with catalysts on motorcycles.
I'm not going back to having the EVAP stuff in the storage compartment, thats for sure. I like the massive increase in under seat storage too much. But when with the hoses joined together and fuel being present where I didn't expect it, I need to investigate further and find a solution. A solution that does not involve taking half the bike apart or lots of plastic off, I just don't have the confidence or expertise or time for something that deep.

Letting it remain open to the air and just put a filter over it to keep dust out is one possibility. I believe some of the others have done exactly this and it worked fine. The other hose without the filter just gets plugged with a spare machine screw.

But ideally I would re-introduce the evap canister which would solve the fuel issue if fuel is getting up in there and also make the bike CA-legal again.

I'll dig more into it this weekend and update this thread with how it goes. Once everything is finished I'll write a Wiki on it. But for today, with the hoses just hanging open loose, the bike runs fine.
Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:03 am

Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 22393
Location: Nashville, Indiana
 
Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 22393
Location: Nashville, Indiana
Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:03 am linkquote
Bylead wrote:
Gasoline vapors burn very well. I can't afford to take that risk.
People have been riding motorcycles for decades without rollover valves and very rarely do you hear about a bike burning up from a crash. When they do it is usually the gas tank or gas line rupturing or electronics catching fire.
Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:58 pm

Hooked
2019 MP3 500 Sport
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 187
Location: California
 
Hooked
2019 MP3 500 Sport
Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 187
Location: California
Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:58 pm linkquote
pinheadh78 wrote:
I'm not going back to having the EVAP stuff in the storage compartment, thats for sure. I like the massive increase in under seat storage too much.
Indeed. I'd pay for it! Your phase 2 looks amazing storage wise!
Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:34 pm

Hooked
2016 Mp3 500ie Sport
Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 143
Location: California
 
Hooked
2016 Mp3 500ie Sport
Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 143
Location: California
Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:34 pm linkquote
Follow up as promised. EVAP canister will not be re-installed anywhere on bike and the two hoses are sealed off.

I was not able to find a safe and stable refit the EVAP canister to the bike. The tolerances between the plastic shell where too tight to fit the charcoal canister in between the frame. Fitting it in the air-gap between the engine and storage was a non-option as thats the space the engine moves into when the shock absorbers are compressed. If I had installed it in that air-gap above the engine its likely to be crushed between the engine and storage compartment if I went over a large bump with the shock absorbers under load.

In the end, I just sealed off the two hoses and zip-tied them to the bike frame. If there is a fix-it ticket or problem I'll just splice in a sufficient length of 1/4 in fuel rated hose and re-install it long enough to pass the fix-it citation. Ran the bike at idle for 15 minutes this time to make sure it was stable with the two hoses sealed off, bike ran fine, no trouble. Should the hoses become a problem they are positioned so I can easily reach them without having to remove plastic panels.

So for now, project EVAP canister removal is completed.
Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:55 pm

Enthusiast
mp3 500 2018 (USA-version)
Joined: 21 Apr 2020
Posts: 60
Location: Belarus, Minsk
 
Enthusiast
mp3 500 2018 (USA-version)
Joined: 21 Apr 2020
Posts: 60
Location: Belarus, Minsk
Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:55 pm linkquote
stickyfrog wrote:
People have been riding motorcycles for decades without rollover valves and very rarely do you hear about a bike burning up from a crash. When they do it is usually the gas tank or gas line rupturing or electronics catching fire.
Even if one out of a thousand motorcycles catches fire, why put yourself at risk? You just need to buy and connect a valve to the pipeline, which costs $ 2.
Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:56 am

Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 22393
Location: Nashville, Indiana
 
Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 and 2 MP3 500s
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 22393
Location: Nashville, Indiana
Mon Jan 31, 2022 5:56 am linkquote
Bylead wrote:
Even if one out of a thousand motorcycles catches fire, why put yourself at risk? You just need to buy and connect a valve to the pipeline, which costs $ 2.
Because the risk is very slight and the roll over valve can stick. It happened on my first MP3 250.
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