OP
@kz1000st avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1887
Location: Hyde Park, New York
 
Molto Verboso
@kz1000st avatar
Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
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Posts: 1887
Location: Hyde Park, New York
@motovista avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
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Posts: 8937
Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
The statements made aren't supported by the actual sales figures.
@adri avatar
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Atypical Canadian
2009 Vespa S50(LX150 motor swap), 2006 Vespa GTS250ie
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Posts: 2318
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
Atypical Canadian
@adri avatar
2009 Vespa S50(LX150 motor swap), 2006 Vespa GTS250ie
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Posts: 2318
Location: Toronto, Canada
UTC quote
No thank you. If I'm going with an Italian vehicle I want it made in Italy and preferably still Italian owned, or else from somewhere else altogether.

I have to wonder about Enrico Punsalang. Seems like this is the second time this week on MV alone (Paris Motorcycle Ban?) where we're seeing he's put out a fluff piece.
OP
@kz1000st avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1887
Location: Hyde Park, New York
 
Molto Verboso
@kz1000st avatar
Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1887
Location: Hyde Park, New York
UTC quote
I post these things about Benelli because it's great to see a brand revived. In the early 2000s Benellis were junk. Not just finicky Italian motorcycles....junk. Cycle World was doing an extended Road Test of an 1100 Trei and gave up. If it wasn't breaking down on the road it was in the shop waiting for parts.

Current road tests only say they are heavy and not as powerful as the competition. Even Bruno dePrato, a well respected European journalist calls them "Well made". Something you couldn't say about the previous models. If I was still commuting 10k a year a durable, well made bike would fit the bill.

And if you look up the SSR Benelli website they have a 150 and 250cc scooter, the Caffenero and Zaffenero, in their lineup. Even Kawasaki doesn't do that.
@giallo avatar
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Addicted
GTS 300 hpe
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Location: NYC
 
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@giallo avatar
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UTC quote
adri wrote:
No thank you. If I'm going with an Italian vehicle I want it made in Italy and preferably still Italian owned, or else from somewhere else altogether.

I have to wonder about Enrico Punsalang. Seems like this is the second time this week on MV alone (Paris Motorcycle Ban?) where we're seeing he's put out a fluff piece.
I get the sentiment. Though I don't think it's easy to establish those kinds of things. I recently watched a food documentary and in it an Italian proclaimed that true Italian pizza is made by Italians with Italian ingredients. Well, it turns out that much of high quality Italian cheese is produced with milk from and by Punjabi farmers that have brought their expertise and willingness to work the land with them. Does it make the pizza less Italian then? Should I care that my Vespa is likely assembled in Pontedera with parts that have been sourced around the globe?
UTC

Enthusiast
GTS300ie
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Location: Netherlands
 
Enthusiast
GTS300ie
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UTC quote
I don't consider the news very exciting. Benelli is not actually revived. It's just that a foreign business bought the brand rights. I've seen it with many famous brand names like Blaupunkt, Grundig, Telefunken, Kreidler, Bugatti etc. All manufacturers who went bankrupt many years before. Most of the times the new products are far less in quality and have little in common with the old days.
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I've been intrigued by Benellis and sat on them at the dealer, followed the posts by owners, especially in India and ogled a new Leoncino in Lisbon before the US arrival. I understand they hold up well, are weak on power but well liked by owners. Too small for me to ride.
To feel patriotic I avoid iPhone.
@adri avatar
UTC

Atypical Canadian
2009 Vespa S50(LX150 motor swap), 2006 Vespa GTS250ie
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Posts: 2318
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
Atypical Canadian
@adri avatar
2009 Vespa S50(LX150 motor swap), 2006 Vespa GTS250ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2318
Location: Toronto, Canada
UTC quote
giallo wrote:
I get the sentiment. Though I don't think it's easy to establish those kinds of things. I recently watched a food documentary and in it an Italian proclaimed that true Italian pizza is made by Italians with Italian ingredients. Well, it turns out that much of high quality Italian cheese is produced with milk from and by Punjabi farmers that have brought their expertise and willingness to work the land with them. Does it make the pizza less Italian then? Should I care that my Vespa is likely assembled in Pontedera with parts that have been sourced around the globe?
Just because perfection cannot be expected, does not mean it should be sought after. You're welcome to buy all the Chinese-owned, Chinese-made, Benelli scooters you'd like. No one is stopping you. I'll still wave at you as we pass by each other.

My family back home has been struggling with hard times pretty much since the introduction of the euro. Also, they make their own cheese.
@giallo avatar
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UTC quote
adri wrote:
Just because perfection cannot be expected, does not mean it should be sought after. You're welcome to buy all the Chinese-owned, Chinese-made, Benelli scooters you'd like. No one is stopping you. I'll still wave at you as we pass by each other.

My family back home has been struggling with hard times pretty much since the introduction of the euro. Also, they make their own cheese.
Hm, I don't want to ride a Benelli and didn't say I would like to, even though they seem capable bikes.
I understand globalization and the pressures on the Italian economy. Because of that my point is, how do you even determine if something is made in a given place? Is a Vespa made in Pontedera because it's assembled there? Or is it because a certain percentage of parts are Italian made? Are Vespas assembled in Vietnam of a different quality then the ones coming straight out of Italy? If that's so, I am sure riders in Australia and other parts of the globe would have already pointed that out. I am not saying I have the answers, it's just in this global age these things are not always easy to figure out. Piaggio does some R&D in China (see https://www.piaggiogroup.com/en/archive/press/piaggio-group-new-rd-centre-foshan-china ), and Benelli does it in Italy as far as I know. Does that make Piaggio less desirable? To me it doesn't. Parts on a Vespa are globally sourced, as is the case with any other motorcycle, that's just the world we live in, for better or worse. Who owns the shares of any given company? Just because the company is b based in Italy, doesn't mean that the shareholders originate there, or does it? My point is that these questions and answers aren't clear cut, at least not once to scratch the surface.

I get where you are coming from, and certainly the appeal of brands like Moto Guzzi ist, that they have been made in the same factory in Italy since the beginning. I do like that they preserve the local jobs.
OP
@kz1000st avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1887
Location: Hyde Park, New York
 
Molto Verboso
@kz1000st avatar
Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1887
Location: Hyde Park, New York
UTC quote
And then there's this.

https://www.rideapart.com/news/563626/moto-morini-hints-future-plans/

As a subsidiary of Zhongneng Vehicle Group (ZVG), Moto Morini's ultra-competitive pricing aligns with the other Chinese firms such as CFMoto and QJ Motors. On the other hand, Motor Morini reports that the X Cape 650 has been designed, developed, and manufactured in Italy.

Zhongneng is the company that brings you Wolf Brand and Scootstar scooters to this Country.

Or this.

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2014/12/01/swm-motorcycle-resurrection-shineray-qa/#:~:text=Chongqing%20off%2Droad%20specialist%20Shineray,440%2C%20and%20the%20SM450%20supermoto.&text=This%20takeover%20was%20announced%20at%20EICMA%20Milan%20in%20November.

Some bikes assembled in Europe with Chinese part, some in China for the Asian market.
Shineray is the company that produces the Genuine 400i

Confusing, isn't it?
@giallo avatar
UTC

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GTS 300 hpe
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UTC quote
kz1000ST wrote:
And then there's this.

https://www.rideapart.com/news/563626/moto-morini-hints-future-plans/

As a subsidiary of Zhongneng Vehicle Group (ZVG), Moto Morini's ultra-competitive pricing aligns with the other Chinese firms such as CFMoto and QJ Motors. On the other hand, Motor Morini reports that the X Cape 650 has been designed, developed, and manufactured in Italy.

Zhongneng is the company that brings you Wolf Brand and Scootstar scooters to this Country.

Or this.

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2014/12/01/swm-motorcycle-resurrection-shineray-qa/#:~:text=Chongqing%20off%2Droad%20specialist%20Shineray,440%2C%20and%20the%20SM450%20supermoto.&text=This%20takeover%20was%20announced%20at%20EICMA%20Milan%20in%20November.

Some bikes assembled in Europe with Chinese part, some in China for the Asian market.
Shineray is the company that produces the Genuine 400i

Confusing, isn't it?
It certainly is.
@giallo avatar
UTC

Addicted
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 793
Location: NYC
 
Addicted
@giallo avatar
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 793
Location: NYC
UTC quote
And this

"Under the deal, Piaggio would trim its stake in the existing Chinese joint venture Piaggio Foshan Motorcycle (PFM) to 45 percent from 75 percent to make room for Zongshen which would hold another 45 percent in the company."

https://www.wardsauto.com/italys-piaggio-make-scooters-china
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