Modern Vespa

Most Canadians do not support this absurd action; neither do I. And we're annoyed by the hidden support from right-wing persons and groups from other countries.

It is not a requirement to be vaccinated to be a truck driver here; only if you want to be a cross-border driver, just like virtually every other person. They can drive back and forth across the country with no restriction at all.

Maybe next they'll be opposing mandates for drivers licenses, or air brake certification.

On a lighter note, traffic is tied up in Greece again by hundreds of farmers' dramatic protests, this time setting booze poured on the highway on fire because the government wants to fiddle with the traditional name of the booze to enhance tax revenues it seems. I hope this is not overly political, but what work of the government devils is THIS?





Tsipouro is kinda like legal Greek moonshine (smacks lips)

From one of the historic birth places of democracy comes moonshine.

Now I know why I joined a Greek Lettered Fraternity in college -drinking.

Interesting historical note: prior to prohibition and fed income tax in the
USA, the entire federal government was funded by Liquor Taxes.

Go Greece.

Bob Copeland

I don't have a problem with people peacefully assembling and protesting against just about anything. The good protests, those espousing a point of view I agree with, obviously serve a legitimate purpose. The protests that support crackpot ideas, basically anything I disagree with, do get the nut jobs and kooks out into the open, so they can be hunted down and publicly mocked on their Facebook and Twitter pages. But about an hour into it, blocking the road with large motor vehicles and honking horns day and night seems more like terrorizing with semitrucks than seeking of redress of grievances, and undoubtedly one or two rules of the road are being repeatedly broken. If the miscreants are cited every ten or fifteen minutes, or even once a day, for moving (or should be moving but aren't) violations, and earn enough of the kind of points you can't trade for valuable prizes, they will see an adjustment to their insurance rates, and maybe their CDLs (Commercial Driver's License). Getting microchipped with 5G nanobots will soon be the least of their concerns. Gonna be chillin (literally, it's Canada) back at they crib, but ain't be crossing no border on a suspended CDL.

'We stand with Ottawa': muddled messages and fraying consensus at New Zealand's anti-vax protest.

Parliament protests wane amid a profusion of concerns ranging from a 'plandemic' to genetic manipulation and the plight of an oil refinery

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/09/lets-remember-why-we-are-here-new-zealand-anti-vax-protest-splinters-into-jibes-and-jabs

Ok I'll take the bait. Don't live in Ottawa, about four hours away, have been a few times. I have a friend who believes strongly in this protest. He went up in person himself for a night, sent us a bunch of videos in our group chat while he was there.

My observations from seeing the footage he was sending us in real time:

- No violence, no threats, no intimidation
- Mostly just people walking up and down the streets in front of parliament (our whitehouse) probably just trying to stay warm as the temperatures are around freezing
- Interactions with the cops (he's cop-related) all seem well and fine
- Instances of one or two people with flags that could be considered oppressive (keeping this vague because of forum rules) were mostly jeered at by several people who didn't want that around
- Sentiment seems to be that this is anti-mandates, not pro-anything-else
- The police threatened to charge anyone bringing "material aid" to protestors, which includes fuel, so people started buying gas cans in bulk, and filling some of them with water, some of them with gas, and then dozens of people bringing a couple cans each altogether so the police wouldn't know who to stop or not to stop
- I don't know anyone in Ottawa who has been directly impacted by this, but I know a lot of people in Toronto who are complaining about the noise in Ottawa

Those are my own personal observations as a Canadian.

Now in terms of my speculation...

Do I think it's possible people are being faced with abuse, racism, intimidation, etc.? 100%

However, I have yet to spend a day in downtown Toronto, any day of the year, whether or not there is a protest, and not witness if not experience that...

The people in Ottawa are pretty sheltered, less than 1 million people, and 300,000 of them are civil servants! It's more like a bunch of a government union workers than an actual city you'd want to live in.

I think if they came to just an average day where I live (Toronto), they would say they felt under siege as well. For those of us who grew up in the city it's like... Yeah, welcome to people!

Lol. This is really arbitrary stuff. Let's keep this rational and worry less about opinion and more about solid numbers.

30% of this country's GDP comes from exports.
73% of this country's exports go to the US.

That means about 22% of Canada's entire GDP involves moving stuff to the United States.

That's a lot of work for truckers to miss out on, and that's only the tip of the iceberg.

The US exports $256 Billion to Canada every year. That is A LOT of work for Canadian truckers to miss out.

My uncle used to own a trucking business. I would strongly recommend you call up a trucker or former trucker you know and ask them how much of their livelihood is made up of crossing that border.

We make and ship parts to big 3 automakers in Detroit and Canada. From what I am reading in the news it won't be long before we start feeling the trickle down effects. Coupled with the chip shortage we may be in for a bumpy ride.

Interesting observations. Its interesting how impressions vary. Part has to be one's bias...here in the US we're arguing insurrection vs. peaceful protest. So in part one sees what they want to.

The other aspect is depending what you personally witness. If you're in a congenial setting having coffee with new friends its going to appear different than a local resident pissed about a semi on his street blowing its horn nonstop. Press is by nature looking for sensational events to report.

My attempted admiration of Canadians as the more civilized and progressive North Americans has taken a bit of a beating.

Don't get me started on the Kiwis.
(Although its amusing as heck that they can't keep a good nutjob protest alive...)

Good thing to remember is, the area in Ottawa around Parliament isn't exactly a residential area. Yes I am sure that there are families that are annoyed but it's important to be realistic too...

Picture yourself on the White House lawn looking across the street.
Do you see a school? No.
The Smith family and their kids? No.
A community center? No.
You probably see a bunch of government buildings, and maybe some condos for the people who need to be close to those government buildings.

It's the same thing with us.

The area immediately around Parliament Hill is very bureaucratic. There's always people protesting stuff, someone's always upset about something, a lot of cops with radar guns pulling people over, and the place becomes a 36-hour long party on Canada Day. There aren't a lot of families there because you wouldn't want to raise your kids anywhere near Parliament Hill.

I live in a residential area in the country's most densely-populated city. I think we have the most gun violence too, but I could be wrong. Either way, I would rather live here, then live near Parliament Hill. As much as I would hate it, I can't help but feel like these people knew what they were signing up for when they chose the convenience of being close to their government jobs...

Apparently Ottowa's 911 system is being purposefully flooded with calls. Some interesting strategies at play here.

Also reading about the support for the strike by a number of former police/military personnel.

So much for a homegrown protest.

FREEDOM

A wise man once told me that 'Freedom is your ability to choose the consequences of your actions'.

We are free to choose not to vaccinate. In choosing to do so, we much accept that our freedom of movement may be affected. If I were to visit Canada, USA, UK, EU, Australia or NZ for example, I would need to be fully vaccinated. Why should certain persons be exempt from this on the basis of their contribution to the delivery chain?

My daughter-in-law works in the hospitality (restaurant) sector. Covid measures closed the whole sector down completely for over six months. Hundreds of employers closed permanently, causing thousands of persons to lose their jobs. They were not truckers - just common or garden service people.

When Covid restrictions were lifted, the hospitality sector was permitted to open, but only for take-out meals and sale of alcohol was prohibited. Ask anyone in that sector what losses they incur without the income stream from drinks sales. Hotels were only permitted to have guests in 50% of their rooms and meals had to be served in the rooms to isolate guests. Again the hospitality sector lost massively. The past two years have decimated tourism in my country and in many others.

Why should one group of people be granted 'special person' status because they drive a truck? I have been affected very little as Covid came around after I retired and I was at home anyway. But my greater family was seriously affected. I helped them make ends meet out of my meagre pension - because I had more than they did. We shared meals in our two houses to meet Covid isolation regulations. That is what families do to deal with unforeseen circumstances.

The world has seen massive losses from Covid restrictions - measures that were intended to save lives - and they did. Has the time now arrived to abolish all restrictions on travel... all filters on all travellers? I have my doubts that we are there yet.

When EVERYONE is free to cross the border without vaccinations, then the truckers can have their 'freedom'.
Until then, let them be treated equally with the rest of the Canadians and visitors to Canada.

As I speak, President Cyril Ramaphosa is delivering his State of the Nation Address in our make-shift Parliament (due to arson in the Parliament Precinct.) He has announced that the State of Disaster will be lifted as soon as permanent measures can be formulated to effect border infection controls. There is light at the end of the tunnel. UK is announcing reduced restriction and other EU countries have done so as well.

Until ALL travellers are free, truckers cannot justify being preferencially free.

Apologies if I have erred in transgressing the 'no politics' rule on MV.

Is any of this something you have personally witnessed, or all third-hand heresy?

Don't know any Canadians or have a dog in this fight, but since this all started, this is the first pro news piece (consider the source) I've read.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEJ7rEUfMboI2YQ7B8Mgh_68qGQgEKhAIACoHCAow77zbCjDiq8wBMITyqQY?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

I always read my news and always try to use different sources.

This is true but the protest has moved way beyond just truckers not wanting to get vaccinated to cross the border or at least that is what I am seeing and reading. There seems to be two main demands now.

The number one seems to be for the Canadian government to drop all covid mandates now for all Canadians. This is getting bolstered by the number of other countries that are doing it so it may have a chance.

The second one I am hearing is the removal of Trudeau which seems pretty unrealistic.

Thanks to all of the Canadians that have chimed in BTW and thanks to everyone who have kept this discussion within the forum guidelines.

Possibly he saw it on the Ottawa official twitter page?
https://mobile.twitter.com/OttawaPolice/status/1491788988654383115?cxt=HHwWlsCryc2L87MpAAAA

The pandemic hits - we do not know potential outcomes. We hit the extreme
caution button and scared the crap out of everyone. There was probably no
other way to react. I have had all three Covid Shots.

We have unfortunately lost 1 million folks. Everyone is valuable. The Black
Plague killed close to 50% of the population in Europe. We have lost
.0014% of the population each year and have shut down the place like it
is the Black Plague. Again, every single soul was important - but it is time
to move on.

For god sakes, take the masks off the school kids - most of Europe has already
done this. How much have we scared people? - I still see individuals alone
in cars wearing masks - walking alone in the Park with no one within 100 yards
wearing a mask. Have we scared the hoot out of everyone - heck yes.

Time to move on. I think the truckers in Canada just want to move on.

That is the news from Lake Wobegon Minnesota.
Yes,"where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and
all the children are above average".

Bob Copeland

So... only Canadians must be permitted to be 'free'...?
Can US truckers cross the border unvaccinated?
If I as a non-citizen get a truck-driver job in Canada must I still be vaccinated in order to enter the country?

I remember a time my house caught fire. The fire department came and started working on it. But after two hours I really got tired of them being there. I mean two whole hours. I was just so over it and wanted to get back to normal. So I decided to just take my chances and go back in and finish breakfast. I had a lot of things I wanted to do that day and the fire was just so inconvenient.

I'm glad that communicable diseases work much the same way. We're all bored with this whole pandemic thing so we should just stop all these silly precautions. That'll surely just make things normal again. Right?

No offense intended, but part of the reason we've been fighting this so long is that we've had too many people that "didn't want to be bothered". In a recent Politico article I read (Feb 3) about the current trend in changing course, they included this information : Yes, we have the tools. If people would use them. Feb 7th 2022 and the US is still only 65% vaccinated. That is abysmal. And the fact that I can walk into a store in February in Michigan where only half the people are wearing masks even though signs are posted on the doors recommending everyone wear them, even as they are giving them out at the entrance is mind boggling.

I just don't get people. I want this to be over, too. But I've said it before when the rule is don't pee in the pool the rule is only effective if everyone refrains from peeing in the pool.

So here we are.

Yeah. If that's reliable.
And this... if you can trust CBC


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/convoy-protesters-police-tactical-knowledge-1.6345854

It is called urine therapy these days.
But then I'm not a spacedoctor.

Unlawful assembly

I guess I understood from the post that the implication was it was protestors doing this... whereas the tweet doesn't seem to imply that.

Can you pick out the word, (hint, it's used twice in this headline,) that suggests this is not a "news piece?"

OPINION Canada's Trucker Convoy Challenges the Elites | Opinion

Not necessarily truckers, it seems.but this has a lot more angles to it.... I'd read too that the far right has been trying to get this going for some years.

.https://globalnews.ca/news/8609284/ottawa-trucker-convoy-airport-disruptions/

It's disturbing to me that so many grassroots demonstrations are coopted by others who have larger, often more nefarious agendas. Money, disinformation, inciteful rhetoric all do a disservice to what might be legitimate concerns. Seems to me that a whole lot of people with mental health issues are attracted to these things too. They may be fringe, but they can make things interesting. A bit off-topic, but a friend's son years ago had a moment when he thought he was Jesus, decided to take off to a protest in Washington from the Midwest, who took along a friend who believed him....

Yes the American vaccination regulations on crossing the border went into effect about a week after the Canadian ones did so even if Canada dropped theirs unvaccinated Canadian truckers still could not enter the US. I am guessing that this is why the focus changed to all covid mandates instead of just vaccination mandates.

The Mayors of the Twin Cities, Minneapolis and St Paul just eliminated all
Covid Mandidates. Individuals will make their own decisions on what is
healthy for them.

Time to move on.

Bob Copeland

people have the right to refuse a vaccines in the USA. its ALWAYS been a CHOICE

people have a right to address their grievances against their govt. IE protest

what I see as a horrific . a govt STEALING nine million dollars from the lawful protestors. (blocking access to "fund me donations" )

FACT:
Black's Law Dictionary

Mandate: written command given by an authority to an agent (member of public) /
contract by which one person requests another person to agree voluntarily to a service.
It only becomes effective when the mandatory agrees. Therefore, a mandate only
becomes mandatory upon agreement. Mandate requests without consent bear no
obligation. There is a difference between a mandate and law.

Mandate Meaning

Legislation is written using legalese of which attributes different meaning to the words
in the English language. When legislation "states" an instruction must be followed, e.g.:
wear a mask or social distance, what it really means is "you may wear a mask" or "you
may social distance" respectively. Basically, legislation asks for consent. To find out the
meaning of words used in legislation look them up in Black's Law Dictionary. Everything
in this system is governed using legislation and at its foundation it is consent based,
your compliance with legislation is you consenting to it by default.

I believe everything written above to be facts and not political opinion. if moderators disagree please remove.

Might not have all the info, but IIRC GoFundMe is a private organization that can make independent decisions. Also they are refunding the monies donated.

Would be nice if we could leave the issue for Canadians to solve themselves.

privately owned makes it even more horrific. cause that means they were forced by the govt to act as the govt see fit. if you take the side of govt then you agree that people dont have the right to donate to a cause . when the cause is truckers peacefully protesting.

the bigger issue here is knowing your rights. if you dont the govt takes them away.

thats what I see as horrific.

Dave,

I agree - leave the issue to Canadians to resolve.

Looking forward to riding with you on Wisconscoot 2022.

On the other hand, I do not think you would be happy if the State of Wisconsin
took all the money out of your personal bank account because you opposed
a helmet law. Oh, they put it back later. Simply, State of Wisconsin (Cheese Head)
over reach.

Bob Copeland

I agree Bob. Leave the Canadians to issue their resolve...or whatever.

Goodluck on the Queso-rally. Take some antacid. Ride at the front.

Umm interesting analogy. I'm not seeing where the government is instituting this action.
If my helmet protest (FWIW I'm all in on helmet use), if my "investment" was causing tens of millions of dollars of economic damage and pissing off a ton of people, I might have second thoughts. Plus if most of the money was coming from, say, Minnesota, I wouldn't be all that happy either.

People did pretty good with this topic but I am going to lock it because the weekend is coming up and I don't want the other moderators to feel like they need to keep an eye on this as I won't be either. Thanks to everyone that posted.