Modern Vespa

Fellow scooter riders. I just got my SR3 today. I wasted no time to install it and test it. Prior to that I had a sito plus that started to drag everywhere while riding two. I had very hard time deciding between the Malossi, the SR3 and the Polini but so far I purchased and tested the Malossi and the SR3.

The first thing that comes into mind is how compact the Malossi and the SR3 are compared to the sito plus, they are tiny. the Sito plus is too bulky, too wide and it hangs too low.

The Malossi is by far the best fitting exhaust of the three. It has the most clearance by far, it doesn't hand low and is so well tucked up. The finish is in my opinion much better.

The SR3 has ugly welds, hangs very low and it has a tip that protrudes too far down. The main body has too much gap to the swing arm, they should have tucked the box up another 1 to 1 1/4". The long elbow bend coming from the cylinder has a bad design because it has a slope and is point down towards the front of the scooter. The Malossi is flat.

The sito has nothing but negative feedback, it fits the frame but it is a very old design with huge gaps between the body and the swing arm.

As far is the clearance to the ground, the Malossi just blows away the other two. I am disappointed on the poor ground clearance of the SR3. I though that they advertised as being a product improved over classic competitors(Malossi /polini) but I can sear up and down that this is not the case, the Malossi is far better finished and with massive clearance to the ground.

As far is performance, I had a chance to go out and compare the exhaust. The SR3 is a clear winner hands down. It has better torque in the midrange to the Malossi but it really crushes it in the top end. It pulls significantly harder in the top end.

My plan is to get on a nearby desert road and go with my measurement equipment, Dragy, another GPS, tachometer and do some precise roll acceleration, top speed and acceleration from a dead stop. I want to measure the decibels as well.

Here are some pictures that I just took today in similar fashion as the ones that I took last week, riding two up. The red scooter has a Malossi box.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW!!!!!! I am impressed. I just came back from doing top speed testing with the SR3(Sito road 3) and this thing is an animal. The gamble paid off, I thought that the Malossi box was very good which as a matter of fact it was good but the SR3 just blows the Malossi away which blows the Sito +. Below is the data that I posted from 2-3 weeks ago when I went out and tested the scooters. I am attaching the acceleration times from today:

Before I installed this kit my sprint with the bone stock LML engine was running the following 1/4 mile times/speed(see below).

1) 23.51@52.23 mph
2) 23.61@52.23 mph
3) 25.45@47.52 mph
4) 24.69@50.27 mph
5) 25.35@50.19 mph

My PX 166 , malossi box, 26-26 ran:

1) 21.54@59.15 mph
2) 22.20@57.48 mph
3) 21.84@ 57.54 mph
4) 22.24@ 55.96 mph
5) 22.70@60.02 mph
6) 21.64@56.97 mph
7) 22.62@56.55 mph
8) 22.07@56.21 mph
9) 21.37@57.98

Sprint Veloce Malossi 177 iron kit and sito plus

1) 21.50@58.01 mph
2) 21.21@59.70 mph
3) 21.28@57.42 mph
4) 21.01@58.10 mph

Today

Sprint Veloce Malossi 177 Iron kit plus SR3 exhaust (everything stays the same, I haven''t even changed the jets)

20.07@62.86 mph
20.14@62.64 mph
20.66@61.72 mph
20.13@61.61 mph
20.40@61.13 mph
19.89@62.29 mph

Also, before I was doing 1-50 mph in :

12.51 sec
12.31 sec
11.97 sec

today I am down to:

10.15 sec
10.22 sec
10.24 sec
10.38 sec
10.34 sec
10.84 sec
10.74 sec
10.77 sec

The bad part is that I gained zero MPH on the top end. This was a blow!!! I was expecting to gain easily 2-4 mph but I got nothing. I hit 66 mph just like I did with the Sito plus. I hit 7590 rpm in 4th but so did I on the sito(7500 rpm).

Now the front end lifts if you take off aggressively, it also lifted a bit on the first to second shift. I honestly don't think that I am going to do more testing on this exhaust. I will be trying a 24-24 that I have and nothing else. Feel free to share your thoughts.

Thanks for laying on the grenade and doing the tests. Makes me curious as I'm trying to find a little more top end on my Malossi 166. Don't really give a shit about acceleration.

^^ Thanks! I couldn't pass over 7590 rpms. I need to try out the bigger carburetor and see if that helps a bit. I was comparing the data from the stock engine and it is insane how much bang for the buck you get even on a cheap Malossi cylinder kit.

My initial review on the Malossi 177cc wasn't too positive because I based it on the jetting that was included on the cylinder kit but after dialing it in I find that the 177cc edges the 166cc. Now I want to go and put the SR3 on my PX150(166cc) and see how the Malossi 166 reacts to the SR3.

The Malossi 166cc with the sito plus was weak but when I did the Malossi box it improved a lot, now I wonder how the SR3 would do.

Have you optimized exhaust port width and duration, for improvement at your target rpm range? When I was trying to improve my top end for sustained riding, I had to physically do something to the cylinder once close.

I expect you'll be pleased. When I rebuilt Howard's Stella on 2011, it got a Malossi 166, Mazzy 60mm stroker, no packer (recut the head instead) and a SIP Road 2. It also had a GGR Hot Reed with a drilled filter and rejetted SI20/20. Sounded a little like a 2T dirtbike under full load, but it would lift the tire in 2nd even with all his racks/bars and it had a fun little "hang on or fall off" burst in the middle of third.

My one regret is that he didn't want me to re-gear the transmission. All that potential held back by stock Stella gears.

I haven't done a porting job on a cylinder yet. I have done some mild porting on 3 Vespa carburator box just to match the carburator to the box and to the intake(rotary). Before I do any porting I need to learn and watch more videos.

I got to see Howard's scooter a few years back, he was very happy, I knew that you worked on it because he was telling everyone how well his black Stella was running. Howard is a huge guy too so there is a penalty in performance, I am 210lbs and I look like a teenager next to Howard, when he gets on the road he wears a lot of gear too. Do you think re-gearing my scooter would help? It accelerates very well but I am disappointed that I gained nothing on the top end tucked down for 30-35 seconds full throttle.

On another note, I was actually looking for GGR reeds and it appears that GGR disolved even on their website. I had GGR carbon reeds on my orange Stella, I wouldn't mind getting a decent pair of reeds if I can find some. What do you recommend?

By the way, this LML engine is a very low mileage engine(600-700 miles), it is 9 years old but I hardly used it in the past.

I'd say go for 22T clutch gear at minimum. If you split the cases, 22/67 can be done with a cush drive rebuild and it might serve well with a low cost. DRT makes Re-gear options too. They're a bit more costly, but it gives you more options for gearing. Scooter Mercato sells a Hot Reed kit, but they're currently out of stock. In order to get the most out of it, you'll need to cut the central support out of the reed block.

when you lay your scooter over like that, doesn't oil and gas go everywhere? I always wondered about folks who do that and if it works.

On that picture I was actually doing two things, changing the rubber seal (O ring) on the clutch cover and changing the exhaust.

At that particular time I didn't have much gas on it. Lately I got smarter and I started draining the fuel every time. I purchased a 3 feet cleat tube (1/2 " in diameter) and I am syphoning the gas and it works very well. I also changed the gas cap seal.

Ohhhh man!!! I have very bad news. The SR3 scraps baaaaddd. I just came from picking up my son from school. 150lbs (my son ) plus 210 lbs of yours truly, to my surprised it scrapped bad on the right right side(engine side). The exhaust 2' tip hit my garage ramp very hard. I am going to have no other choice but to cut it.

This is a very clear example of a half as$ design. Yes, it makes great power, price is "ok" but the design is far from perfect. The pictures that I posted yesterday was just us sitting on the scooter statically, today it was the real test, rolling in the neighborhood at low speed leaning on a couple of 90 degree turns.

This is a safety hazard in my book, you could be unlucky and hit a bad pothole or a semi installed manhole and you could stop on your tracks.

In summary, my final thought on the SR3 is that it performs very well in the power department, fitment and design is mediocre, price is fair, welds are ugly and it is a safety concern when riding two. The Malossi box clicks a lot of checkmarks (price, excellent design, perfect fitment, decent performance).

Look at the malossi big elbow design vs the sr3. I am telling you guys, it is an awful design, you don't make the elbow point down towards the ground when you actually have another 3" above that you can tucked up. First picture is the Malossi, second picture is the SR3.

It needs no explanation. Malossi has by far better fitment, SR3 is a sloppy design. Look at the angle of the elbows please. Is like no brainer!!! the first thing it hit the ground was the elbow. SIP has a far road ahead to figure out a better design, it is very unacceptable to create an exhaust that hangs so low. on their narrative they said that it is a "improved design" over classic exhaust boxes.. I doubt it.

Real testing, real feedback, undiluted..happening right here right now. 4:37 pm Arizona time 11 Feb 2022.

Scooterist, have been out for a few days and just saw your post. Sorry to know the problems with the SR3 fitting. One thing I notice is that your SR3 sits flat to the ground with the manifold facing down and mine is in an angle, the manifold is almost flat to ground - will it be from the engine bracket? Mine is a short threaded bolt, no nut (GTR 125). Regards

As you can clearly see on the pictures my SR3 elbow points down to the ground so much that on the first ride with two people riding it already hit the ground. If you pay attention to the pictures and compare it with the Malossi you will see that the elbow is simply welded wrong from lack of R&D. If Malossi can beautifully tuck up their exhaust box having the same footprint(size) as the SR3 that tells you right there that SR3 left a lot to be desired on their R&D.

We both have a Sprint veloce but you took the picture from above the height of the exhaust so it doesn't really show the fitment correctly. I got down low and took all my pictures perfectly horizontal to the exhaust box to give the correct angle and perspective.

#1 is your scooter
#2 is my scooter

I'd look to see what length rear shock and shock extension pin (or whatever it's called) is being used on both of your scooters.

Scooterist, yes, your fitting is clearly in a different angle than mine (GTR 1977, not sprint) - its evident on the exhaust end pipe angle, mine is facing the ground like +5 degrees or more. Also I ride alone (180 pounds).

I don't know the difference between the 2 versions of the SR3 (sorry if this is a dumb question), if it even fits, but there is a PX200 version and a 150/Sprint/GTR version, you got the correct one right?

^^ I am lost on what you said. As far as I know they only make one version of the SR3 for each motor: one for the 125cc-150cc motor and one for the 200cc motor.

The fitment should never be interchangeable because the exhaust spicket/stub on the P200E/x is much bigger in diameter and it is also located in a different angle (on the 200cc it points almost perpendicular to the ground).

Maybe your GTR is slightly different than my Sprint Veloce but it can't be that much. I think that if you get down low and post a clear picture at the same height as the exhaust(6-8") you will see that the exhaust points down more than 5 degrees.

It is critical that people know how these exhaust fit, the more detailed we are with the pictures and feedback the better it will be for a potencial buyer. Post another picture taken at a lower height.

Another thing worthy mentioning, I took my picture with two people sitting. The picture is very sleek because we tucked up our feet but that is with 210lbs of yours truly and 150lbs of Jr on it. If I take a picture with the scooter on the center stand it wouldn't really show much although the rear suspension has some to do with.

Those were the 2 versions I wad referring to, I was almost sure they weren't interchangeable as you confirmed, so only 1 version for the sprint. I have now a flat rear tire, will fix it in the weekend and then post a picture seated on the Vespa (1 person only seat)

This is some great info, scooterist. But I'm curious, were all the acceleration test done on flat roads? Because that's great if you just live where there's no hills. I'd be interested in the results for steeper hills that normally require shifting back and forth from 3rd to 4th often in order to keep the RPMs up.

^^ Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate the excellent question. So tomorrow I will post the other pertinent info that the measuring device provides me, I have everything logged.

To answer your question, I visually pick a road that it appears to me to be flat(hold your thought), then I make a pass. The GPS performance device starts on a point A and ends the test/tests on point B depending of what you clicked on the menu ie: 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile plus any custom distance you might want to add. The device records the exact altitude of the spot when you started this particular test(point A) then it measures again the altitude when you end the test(point B) and it gives you the exact slope percentage of the road.

You can do so many things such as recon the pass while it syncs to the phone. It also provides the G acceleration. So far I found a road that is a 0.12% incline which is very flat to me.

As I said over the last few months, dragy is an incredible invention(device) because it was design, engineered and developed to acquire all the data (Dense altitude, altitude, speed, distance, accelerometer, temperature, video and also any and all the roll acceleration increments that you wish). It is a drag racers dream but I particularily use it not just as a drag racing tool but also to see the improvements that I on the bike.

Another beauty of the tests is that you can eliminate the shifting error. For instance, you can do just a rolling test from 30mph to 60 mph on 4th gear, or a 15 to 45 mph in second or any combination you wish. It records everything.

Remember the right hight and right angle. if you can position the phone vertical against a soda can and put a timer and have friend or wife sitting on it it will be more realistic. Also, remember, this is a stationary test, in real riding condition the scooter sinks even more when it hits road imperfections as I discovered on my maiden trip picking my soon from school.

I use a similar app on my phone, works great for performance checking.

Did that change help, nope same numbers flat and on my test hill. Put it back recheck yep, no change next.

I am hijacking my own topic. Coming to your theaters near you!!! I will be doing a 6 exhaust comparo on my P200E soon. I am ordering a Polini tonite.

1) Polini old school expansion chamber
2) Simonini expansion chamber
3) Prima Expansion chamber
4) Sito plus box
5) Stock box
4) Polini box

I'm more curious about the performance on 4% to 6% grades...which i tend to ride on frequently. Most any exhaust will pull just fine on a flat. But then compare them to a steep hill, and that would be a true litmus test.

^^ I am just curious, in what geographic location are you located?

up in the hills in NW Oregon. If i lived in a flat part of the country then any old expansion chamber would work just fine. I've used a Prima pipe, Simonini pipe (neither of them are expansion chambers), 226 Vintage, JL Right, Sito+, stock, PM Tuning up and over, and a SIP Road Viper on various Vespa 200s. The best so far for me up in the mountains has been the Sito+.

^^ You and I are in sync. I agree with you about the expansion chambers and the exhaust boxes. it appears that the exhaust boxes do very well on uphills and the expansion chambers favors the flat roads. I had two 226 vintage Hotwings back in the day, one on the PX150 and another one on the P200E. They were crazy expensive, I scooped them from scooterwest at $429 instead of the regular $599 price. I sold them both in less than a year here on the forum about 10 years ago.

The Prima exhaust has been the best exhaust I put on my P200E so far. The Simonini isn't bad(right hand) but I can feel better acceleration with the lefty Prima. The Sito plus is OK, that is what I have right now temporarily until I order a Polini. I don't want to get another SR3 despite the incredible performance because fitment is paramount to me.

The stock box I hardly put it back mainly because it chokes my Malossi 210 sport although I have put it back a few times because I get tired of noises pipes. I want to give a try to the Polini, it seems like Mista Freak power has nothing but good reviews on it and this guy has done 20 times more testing than me. I hesitate no time to give a bad review as soon as I don't like a product and that is why I could not reconcile with buying another SR3 despite the perfomance.

It is unacceptable to me to put an exhaust box that doesn't fit right and for that reason the SR3 is out. My immediate purchase is going to be a Polini exhaust box. It seems like I am becoming a lot more refine on what I look for as far is parts. I am like you, testing bolt-ons until you pick what you think it checks all the boxes while matching most of your riding style. I do 90% of city riding and the exhaust boxes are the right choice for me. I have been picking up my son every single day from school since August 2nd and the exhaust boxes have delivered. The Malossi exhaust box was a hit. The SR3 was almost a hit now is the turn of trying a Polini Box. My gut tells me that I am making the right choice but if I am wrong that is ok, I can do a trial /error and if I don't like it I'll put it for sale. Now I have great devices to measure what I need.

Hey Scooterist, as promised, took a few more days ...

This time I made a short video, SIP Road 3.0 on 125 GTR. That's the clearance with my 180 pounds weight and also jumping and forcing it down simulating road bumps. Not a problem for my daily riding, caution needed climbing side walks I guess
Hope it helps anybody looking for this setup


https://youtu.be/E9qawZwr_c0

Consider a stiffer shock.
Really happy here with the Carbone Sport. Adjustable preload and not a lot of $.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/shock-absorber-carbone-sport-rear_71017000?q=shock%20absorber%20carbone%20rear

Same shock I have too.

Good video. I guess if I do what you did on the video or if I am riding down the road with a passenger then the 2.5" distance to the ground could get down to less than 1" gap.

I am at 2.5" gap from the lowest point of the exhaust to the asphalt while being static(no flexing like you did). Imagine the two passengers traveling at 40-45 mph going over a bump.

It looks like my option at this point is a stiffer rear shock as the other riders mentioned.

This is one of the best articles out there. Read it, it is worth it.

https://dsportmag.com/the-tech/education/dragy-gps-based-performance-meter/

10 Hz GPS are great, used a similar one for oval track racing.

Here is an important update folks. I have had this SR3 for about a month now. It is an incredible exhaust box for making power/torque, I swear up and down that it makes significant more power/torque than my Malossi box because the GPS acceleration test proves it but at this point I just can't pass the fact that this is a terrible designed exhaust and a huge major safety concern.

As I said before, I have been picking up my son from the school for 7 straight months and this exhaust scrapes left and right at low speed, slow turns with two riders sitting up-right. I scraped bad turning right and I scraped bad turning left.


At this point I rather get rid of it before my left or right knee scrapes the asphalt. I am working a deal with a fellow rider on this forum and I am going to see if I trade my SR3 for his Polini box.


Summary: fitment sucks!!! it is a dangerous bolt on if you ride two people. It is a matter of time before I have an accident. it makes tons of power, if you weight a buck 150 and have strong suspension and ride solo go for it!!

If the pictures don't deter you then I can't help. Going at 6-8mph making a turn sitting up right that is my crime! imagine hitting a manhole or a bump on the road, you might break your cylinder.

That's bad indeed.

As I remember from some of your posts you've been struggling a bit with ground clearance, even with other exhausts, as I also have the SR3 I'd better prevent than wait for something unexpected to happen, so I drop a couple of thoughts/questions:

1. In some of the pics with you and your son seated, tire seems flat - what pressure are you using?
2. Are you using the original front spring? its way too soft and when front dives it gets really low
3. Is it possible to minimize a bit the problem (I'm thinking on my case too) fitting not only a stiffer rear spring but also a longer shock or extension/rubber? I'm a noob on this I think I have the original rear shock (340mm?) but I see some 345 and 350mm ... anyone?

My last ride was around 40 miles, secondary roads, etc. even descended a sidewalk of around 4-5 inches and the exhaust never touched the ground

Regards

The tire is an optical illusion, they look low but they are not. They are overinflated to 30 psi (4 PSI above recommended). I just received a brand new Polini Marmotta the elbow is well tucked up.

I have on hand 2 stock boxes, 2 sito plus, a Polini box, a SR3 and Malossi box. The only one with the elbow pointing down is the SR3.

This is good to know, thanks!

What length is the spacer on your rear shock?? Exhaust's hanging really low. I have an expansion exhaust on my P, I'm a heavy guy and never scratched it while riding. The only time I have contact is when I take it out of the garage…

Second that. Looks like the shock spacer is too short.