OP
UTC

Member
Vespa px 200e 1986
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6
Location: Sweden
 
Member
Vespa px 200e 1986
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6
Location: Sweden
UTC quote
Hi
I'm about to start to "optimize" my block. Have an Px200 86. Bought an Malossi MHR cylinder and head kit.
Found instructions for material removal...
So my plan is to match the base gasket to cylinder and then use base gasket as an template. Remove material at an angle roughly 10mm down so it matches the template.

The intake however.....
Don't understand what the picture is saying... enlarge straight down? Or at an angle?

I also have a new 60mm rotary crank from sip preformance that's going in. (No reed).

Any tips?
Best regards
From Sweden
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@charlieman22 avatar
UTC

Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Nedminder
@charlieman22 avatar
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Hi Paudap,
Yes - I agree - those instructions are difficult to decipher precisely - but I know what they are suggesting.

These are instructions to open up the inlet.
This operation needs to be done very carefully.
It is essential that the inlet overlaps your new crank on the inlet's long sides
Most on this forum believe that the minimum overlap should be between 1.2 and 1.5 mm on each side.

Every case is a little different - so the best way to determine this is to install your crank and mark it.
I've included some pictures below as an example.
I find, for best results, that if I paint the crank blue with a sharpie, and then use a very thin sharp pointer, I can lightly scribe the exact edges of the inlet onto the crank.
You can keep the pointer still - and rotate the crank to achieve these marks (like the two blue marks below).

The edge of the blue market must be at least 1.2 - 1.5 mm in from the edge of the crank

The front and back edge of the inlet can also be opened up.
This affects your "inlet timing"
Longer is generally better for peak power - but as you get longer, you can also start to take away some low end power.
With your larger cylinder - you can afford to be a little longer with very little compromise - perhaps no compromise at all.

There is some more - but let's figure out first what the Malossi suggested set up is.
The image you posted of Fig. 3 is telling you their suggested openings for length - it appears.
Can you post the rest os the information so we can read what it says?
Maybe we can give you some direction.

Here is a thread where a guy did a very careful and nice job with shaping his inlet. His measures are all calculated - which is a whole other can of worms.
Let's start by seeing what Malossi says...

Over a Barrel (BGM187) (Page 3)
After the crank has been marked.  This is from the thread
After the crank has been marked. This is from the thread
The inlet marked before cutting
The inlet marked before cutting
@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Location: Veria, Greece
 
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@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4416
Location: Veria, Greece
UTC quote
Forget Malossi's instructions for the intake. You need to measure the timings you get with the new crank in combination to the cylinder before modifying anything. The instructions are for a stock crank...
@charlieman22 avatar
UTC

Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Nedminder
@charlieman22 avatar
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
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Location: california
UTC quote
Safis makes a good point.
The sides directions remain as I typed.
The length needs to be determined with the crank you are using.
@christopher_55934 avatar
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2007 Stella 225
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Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
@christopher_55934 avatar
2007 Stella 225
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Location: Rochester, Minnesota
UTC quote
One of those instance where length matters.
OP
UTC

Member
Vespa px 200e 1986
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6
Location: Sweden
 
Member
Vespa px 200e 1986
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6
Location: Sweden
UTC quote
Thanks for the extensive answer.
This is the text for the instruction (not crystal clear to me).

CRANKASE : widen the intake duct by removing the shaded areas shown in the illustrations below. The dimensiones must be exactly like the ones shown. When
completed, surface H must have no scratches on it, as even the slightest blowby between flywheel and the crankcase would be harmful to the engine. Finally, match the
transfer ports on the crankcase with those on the cylinder, using the base gasket as a template (Fig. 3).

This is the crank/clutch kit I got :
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/clutch-crankshaft-kit-sip-performance-geared-disc-valve_45029300#matchingProducts

It makes sense to me now that you have to adapt to the specific crank you got, will mark it as you suggested and take it from there.

Am I wrong thinking that if I get it wrong I can save it by putting reed valve instead? If you going reed you just make the intake as big as possible right?

//Patrik
charlieman22 wrote:
Hi Paudap,
Yes - I agree - those instructions are difficult to decipher precisely - but I know what they are suggesting.

These are instructions to open up the inlet.
This operation needs to be done very carefully.
It is essential that the inlet overlaps your new crank on the inlet's long sides
Most on this forum believe that the minimum overlap should be between 1.2 and 1.5 mm on each side.

Every case is a little different - so the best way to determine this is to install your crank and mark it.
I've included some pictures below as an example.
I find, for best results, that if I paint the crank blue with a sharpie, and then use a very thin sharp pointer, I can lightly scribe the exact edges of the inlet onto the crank.
You can keep the pointer still - and rotate the crank to achieve these marks (like the two blue marks below).

The edge of the blue market must be at least 1.2 - 1.5 mm in from the edge of the crank

The front and back edge of the inlet can also be opened up.
This affects your "inlet timing"
Longer is generally better for peak power - but as you get longer, you can also start to take away some low end power.
With your larger cylinder - you can afford to be a little longer with very little compromise - perhaps no compromise at all.

There is some more - but let's figure out first what the Malossi suggested set up is.
The image you posted of Fig. 3 is telling you their suggested openings for length - it appears.
Can you post the rest os the information so we can read what it says?
Maybe we can give you some direction.

Here is a thread where a guy did a very careful and nice job with shaping his inlet. His measures are all calculated - which is a whole other can of worms.
Let's start by seeing what Malossi says...

Over a Barrel (BGM187) (Page 3)
[/url]
@charlieman22 avatar
UTC

Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4116
Location: california
 
Nedminder
@charlieman22 avatar
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4116
Location: california
UTC quote
So the text is telling you how large to cut the inlet.
However.
They are assuming you have a stock crank - I believe your's isn't stock.
That makes their suggestions not worth much.

Additionally - its better to use the process I described above to more precisely match the inlet and center it on the crank - while making it wider.
So you have what you need to widen.

However - its best not to guess on length - as this could affect performance characteristics - giving you less low end, and too much high end, for example.
I'm sure others will jump in and help if you decide to get a degree wheel.

Yes - reeds are what many go to when their inlet is damaged or ruined.
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