Modern Vespa

Hi, original steel rims (splitted), I guess they are fairly "smooth", the washer will bite into it - but, will stainless steel nuts work fine or shoud I use softer steel/zinc nuts? TIA

https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Rims/WHEELNUT-KIT

Softer nuts are recommended.

What are "softer nuts"? I've never heard of such things.

Well, not really "soft" unless they were made of brass or cooper

Stainless steel has chromium and other metals that, make it harder? As I have no experience at all with Nord Locks, don't want to make one of those newbie mistakes like using them inappropriately and killing their effect ... just that. I think one basic way of checking this is tightening, untightening and then look for the serrated marks on the nut ... if they're there then its OK...

Solution looking for a problem.

Use new Cad or Zinc plated lock washers and nuts. Inspect threading on lugs to make sure they are healthy.

Well, sort of ... I understand your point. Fact is a noticed (by accident) one of my rear tire nuts missing after last ride - it could be two, or three?

I'm just ruling out variables, as someone said: "Men do not stumble over mountains, but over molehills." I already ordered the NL's

I have used zinc plated nylocs with wave washers on the wheels for the past 35 years. likely overkill, the standard split washer and nut would work fine when tightened, but for that bit of extra confidence...

The NL's are pretty darn thick, so good luck getting the nuts to be completely threaded onto the wheel studs.

this ^

Thanks for the advice. These M8 NL's are 2.2mm thick (X Series, less 0.3 than original series), hope they fit fine

Flat washers aren't recommended either. You'll only have a friction fit against the rim, allowing the system to rotate on the surface.

the only place i use nord-lock is on the cylinder studs.

For sure, thanks. Not a big issue I know, many people use a combination of flat+spring washer or just a simple serrated locking washer. Results may vary ...

Now there's a place it makes all the sense!

I have them for my 8's (four bolts). Less an overkill?

When I used to spend time in Indonesia, it wasn't uncommon to see daily riders with half the wheel nuts missing. Not to mention buses

If I had an alligator rushing me I'd rather have a shotgun in hand than a butter knife, overkills often cost money, not effectiveness

Love it. Going to stash that saying for future use!

Should have said, "considered less an overkill?" I think it's a fair insurance policy on 8's -- $15 for 10 on Amazon. Reusable.

P-money, a question if you will? I had nylocs on a Lambretta come loose and absolutely demolish a rim and eat up the studs. they were stainless steel, with a lock washer, fully engaged-- there was about 2~3mm of stud protruding. then, had the same happen on a vespa. both were torqued properly, both installs seemed totally ordinary and fine but both times came loose. any ideas as to why?

fwiw, never a problem with nylocs on the rims themselves.

Allow me to take a stab, before P-money replies:
With those two, your getting a "false torque."

as in improperly tightened or not enough tension on the fastener?

Both, right?
Thread friction added to nut face torque.

beyond my pay grade there amigo. they were fairly standard parts and everything tightened as it should and the threads were engaged.

so maybe the friction coefficient between the stainless nut/washer and steel stud/rim face was less than desirable?

I could buy into that cause.

The nyloc adds a small but steady additional friction but stainless can gall and that could add a lot more to that "false torque".

I love stainless hardware, but only in non critical locations.

Fitted the NL's, on rim halves as on front hub (Crimaz disk) the studs protrude a few mm's, but on rear hub studs were flush with the nut, applied force was the same so I guess they will hold fine.

These are the X series so they also have a spring effect, around 2.2mm thick as rated, this is a rough picture. Hurrahhh ... not more loosen nuts ... ... ???

I had a false torque issue with the nuts that come with the VMC Stelvio:
They're 40mm nuts. Fancy looking things.
They suck.

First bolt-on, I could feel they were wonky. Powder-coated or painted, IDK, but much of the threads inside are coated with this. Went with standard nuts, all fine.

Went to verify squish a while later and thought, "maybe I should make it look more kosher?"
Chased the threads -- just not deep enough, leaving some of that splooged paint or whatever at the worst place in the threads.

Torqued to spec, not knowing then that maybe half that torque was thread friction, fighting that splooge of theirs. Air leak as a result.

Now fully chased, lubricated threads. Nord Locks (allows thread lubrication). No washers.

Got a pack of 10:
Four on the cylinder bolts, six on the bolts around the crank. The rest flat & split washers.
I'll let you guys know how it goes.