Modern Vespa

So I was hoping for recommendations from the forum for my Liberty 50.

I got this bike for what I thought was cheap with the hopes of getting my then 17 year old daughter to ride. I say hopes because she was to anxious to drive a car, I thought that maybe a scooter would be easier to control and she would not have to worry about doing damage to others so much on a scooter but it just didn't work out.

I got her to ride the thing twice, as soon as I brought it home I asked if she wanted to try it out so she jumped on and promptly drove about 20 yards and tried to do a u turn on our street and crashed it. Just laid it down and no harm to her or the scooter other than some scratches. OK I realized I needed to regroup and plan this out a little more carefully. I decided to go to the local high school with a big parking lot for the next lesson. There were a few cars parked but no traffic, gave her lots of coaching beforehand. My wife followed in the car with the kids and I demonstrated how all you had to do was sit still and the scooter would ride itself, rode 100 yards down the hill with my arms outstretched to demonstrate.

When we got to the parking lot I had her ride pillion while I was talking to her about what to do. Then I rode pillion and pretty much controlled the scooter from behind to give her the feel for it, then I let her take control with me there to take over if things went south. After several laps of this just cruising gently I let her try on her own again and she made a couple short laps around the parking lot and then freaked out and lost control and laid it down again. Fortunately again no damage to scooter or kid save a few more scratches.

This is the same kid that got accepted into the most elite school in the nation for gifted kids at age 12, began there at 13. She flunked the written test for a learners permit not once, not twice, but three times. Finally ( I am a little slow on the uptake sometimes ) I got the message. She does not want to drive. She absolutely positively stubbornly refuses to drive, I wish she would have just told me that but hey I finally got it, she can walk.

OK rant over now on to the question. Scooter had scratches on it when I bought it which is why it was so cheap. The woman that owned it from new was trying to progress from commuting on bicycle to commuting on scooter but she had a low speed crash in a parking lot and like my daughter decided to give up on the scooter idea.

The thing is tough, been laid down at least three times and no damage other than a few scratches. I absolutely loved riding it, so much fun! Handles great with the big wheels, stops fantastic really excellent brakes! (No ABS on the 50 which I prefer)

My complaints are terrible throttle response. There is a delay of a few seconds between throttle input and scooter reaction. And it is a little underpowered. We live in a hilly area and I am over in the bike lanes on the uphill's which is fine, I have bicycled enough that I am comfortable with that.

I read a post in one of the threads about how people will get a 50 and then spend a bunch modifying it and still be unhappy with it and sell it when a 150 comes along. I already have a 150 that just came along in the last month and really like it. The 150 is definitely the answer. Hills no problem two up no problem ( I frequently have to provide rides to the kids and perfect for that ).

So I think I would like to keep it if you all think the malossi variator kit will solve the throttle response problems. Even though I read the thread about hopping up the 50's not being enough I still have one more kid (14 this summer) that I am hoping will take to it. And even if not I still would like to keep for a friend to ride or possibly my wife. My wife has ridden dirt bikes before, not great but competently and I can see talking her into joy rides around the neighborhood on occasion. Many of the parts are interchangable, it is almost worth it to keep it just for parts.

If I do go with the big bore kit and the ignition and the variator what else would I need? Do I need a performance clutch as well? Do I also need to think about gearing? Is there anyone in here that has done this to an Iget 50 and been happy with it? I know it is not a 150 but I think if I am going to keep it I have to do the variator at least to improve the throttle response. It is borderline unsafe the way it is IMHO.

I was even considering putting it in the truck and taking it to Robot and asking him to do a video on it, I think he was even requesting a donor vespa primavera 50 for just such a thing. I really don't want to sell it, I think its a valuable addition to the collection and perfect for any new scooter riders to practice on...you don't have to worry about scratching it as it already has some.

Please share your thoughts and sorry for the long post, trying to anticipate questions and explain the situation thoroughly.

Do you enjoy engine building?

Yes I do rather enjoy working on them. I am up to my ears in projects however but could easily see myself doing the work.

I could also afford to have someone else do it and may just farm it out. If it was just the variator I would probably just do that myself. I am pretty sure it will get a variator at a minimum.

I am brand new to scooters but a competent amateur mechanic. I am pretty good with electrical. I had a 1975 Ducati that I completely rewired in the days before internet, I had to get the books and learn colors in Italian. I used controls from a motorcycle scrap yard and figured the wiring from yamaha control switches to my home made wiring harness and it turned out great. The Lucas switches and stock Ducati wiring harness were garbage.

Still curious if anyone else has experienced the lag in throttle response that my 50 has. There is no lag whatsoever in the 150 and I wondered if it had been upgraded with a performance variator but the guy I got it from was second owner and did not know if it had been modified at all.

It may be completely normal for a stock Iget 50 motor to have that amount of lag in throttle response, and again it isn't the engine it's the driveline. You can hear the engine speed up but it takes a couple seconds for the centrifugal to engage.

I have no basis for comparison, hoping to hear from the forum what to expect.

So you're planning on keeping it for yourself? All I know about 50cc 4-strokes is usually lighter rollers and/or aftermarket variator. I personally wouldn't bother with a BBK, is there even one made for it? But if there is then build away. I prefer simple 2 strokes but did a BBK on a Zuma 125 and a Buddy 125.

My friends son couldn't get a powered 2 wheeler down either. Come to think about it, he had a hard time on my stock RadRunner 1 ebike. Not everyone is 2 wheel compatible.

Yeah I am thinking about keeping it for myself as an extra bike. Scooterwest has the parts for a big bore kit and scooterparts.com does too. Robot has a couple videos on installing a big bore kit but not on a 50 although I think they are similar enough.

I also have one more kid still at home that will be 14 this summer. All the other kids were able to learn to drive and ride, had older boys on XR 100's pretty young and another older daughter that just months after she got her license at 16 got her an Acura Integra with a manual transmission. She did not like it but if she wanted to drive...She will be 23 this spring and is now quite accomplished with the manny.

I hate to let it go because I just don't have that much into it and the poor throttle response is really the only complaint. Guess I just have to try the variator and see.

try the variator and see. you may be surprised.

the kit install isn't too bad. just tedious work. but you quickly run into diminishing returns regarding performance parts on 50 4V 4T stuff.

I have noticed that the 50 handles better than the 150 and stops better than the 150. It is subtle but that's my seat of the pants impression.

It stands to reason though, lighter overall and less unsprung weight. I get what you are saying about diminishing returns, but I like how I can just flick it around. I have always liked the little bikes for the same reason, they're just more fun to ride squidly.

That's what I was looking for was a recipe. I will try the variator and see. Probably best to do one step at a time just to compare the difference if nothing else.

State sponsored 2 day riding classes with a couple of qualified instructors can teach darn near anyone to ride a motorcycle.....and certainly a scooter!
O.S.

I really enjoyed your detailed story.

When I was deciding between a 50 and 150, my dealer told me that most people who buy a 50 regret it. The cost difference is just not that much and the performance is so much different.

But, you have a 50. What the dealer told me is the best way to remedy the problem is a big bore kit. They do this all the time. Leave everything else stock. It will cost you a bit at a dealer, about $600 or so. If you have the ability to do it yourself, then less, obviously.

With the big bore kit you can get to about 40-45 mph vs 30-35 stock...from what they tell me.

The advantage of a 50 in most US States is that they don't have to be plated and you don't need a motorcycle endorsement on your license Also, you can park on the sidewalk.

I am glad you enjoyed the story, thanks.

It would be nice to get an additional 10 mph out of the scooter. My main concern though was the lag in the driveline. When you twist the throttle on the 50 you can hear the rpm's increase but there is a delay of a couple seconds before you feel it in the rear wheel.

I have both the 50 and the 150 to compare and on the 150 there is no noticeable lag. On the 50 it is quite noticeable, pronounced even. On the 50 when starting from a stop you twist the throttle and wait for it to engage, not really a huge problem and you get used to it pretty quick and compensate. While riding I use the throttle in concert with leaning in a turn, sometimes grabbing a handful to pick the bike up for example when making a slow tight u turn and you realize you have leaned a little to far. It is hard to describe in words but I think the best way to put it is that the connection from the throttle to the rear wheel does experience some lag which makes the bike less controllable.

As greasy recommended "just try the variator you might be surprised" and from what I have gleaned from the internet the performance variator addresses this issue in that it tightens up the driveline and eliminates some of the lag.

I know its a 50 and not a 150. It would be a lot better if the driveline/throttle response was tightened up like it is on the 150 even though it will never have the power of the 150. It might be a little better still with a little more power but it will be a lot better with the lag removed and I think that was what greasy was saying in his post, and it makes good sense to start with the variator and see how it is and then maybe think about throwing the big bore kit at it.

It is fun I have to say to have both bikes and be able to compare as I ride and get used to both of them. The problem now is I want another one...I see a 2T 50 in my future...

You make a good point, it got me thinking that sometimes its best to learn something like that from someone who is not close to you, teaching your kid or significant other is different from teaching someone else's kid or significant other, family dynamics and all.

The thing with the written part of learners permit though...just taking a test on the computer? This kid by herself with no help or pushing from Mom and Dad got herself into the most elite program for academics in the country at 12 years old. She had to fill out all of the applications by herself, she tagged along with an older sister to take the ACT at 12 to fulfill an application requirement to be able to attend the Davidson Academy on the University of Nevada Reno campus beginning at age 13. She spent 5 years at DA and her GPA was 3.98 and it is impossible to get higher than 4.0 in the most difficult academic program in the country and yet failed the written for a learners permit 3 times.

If they don't want to do it ... and I get it, there are a lot of kids that don't want to drive these days. Buy comfortable shoes!

because you're not going as fast.

For less than $90, the malossi variator probably offers you the most bang for your buck until you decide to do a top end kit.

Big Bore Kit
Variator
Exhaust

Are the three best values for your money in terms of performance. After that, it's more money for less gains. Clutches do not make the bike go faster, no matter what the person selling them claims. There are other tweaks you can and should do at the same time you install the variator, that will make it perform better. If you want more information, send me a PM.

Parents or amateurs of any kind are lousy driving and riding teachers when compared to a pro.
A state qualified "instructor" can teach a person who can't walk and chew gum at the same time to operate a motorcycle's clutch and gears .....without hurting themselves or the bike.
Ask anyone who has taken these 2 day classes....
O.S.

I see where you are going with this, although I think myself both a competent rider and instructor in any subject I have mastery in I may have missed something and there may very well be more to learn. After sleeping on this advice and considering I am going to seek out a qualified training course in my area and see if I can get the daughter in question to go as well as attend myself.

I cannot remember when I attended a class and did not pick up something and I have been in countless training classes. Besides I have one more that I am hoping will take to the scooter/ two wheeled transportation so even if kid number 4 does not want to pursue what I learn will help kid number 5.

Thank you for the advice and encouragement. I realize that anybody who thinks they know it all is full of shit automatically, there is always more to learn. I tried many times without success which is unusual for me and attributed it to an unwilling participant but your words have encouraged me to step back and look at it with fresh eyes and to try again.

Thank you.

So after doing some investigating about what is available for my area and reading some reviews on both reddit and google I don't think the classes are going to work out. Nothing in the area allows you to use your own automatic transmission scooter and most of the reviews complain of a lack of depth in the courses, most say they teach the courses to pass the skill test the DMV requires and just the very basics. There is one course that is a bit of a drive but run by a mom and pop outfit that may allow a personally owned automatic scooter.

I am not an idiot, I went over everything about it in a very hands on way, no where else are you going to get someone to ride pillion and let you feel what they are doing with their hands on top of your hands. This was the way I was trained to operate a back hoe. My daughter would never even attempt the addes degree of difficulty of a clutch and shifting.

Even with me on the back and practicing with my hands on top of hers, and then letting her control it by herself with me still there to catch if something went bad and getting several laps in that way when she tries it by herself she just freaks out and freezes. She just does not have the mental capacity to cope with the stress and anxiety (to her) to operate a car or a scooter.

Mind you this kid is what they call "profoundly gifted" to be accepted to attend the Davidson Academy on the campus of UNR you have to have an IQ that is in the top one tenth of one percent. 99.9 or better on a percentile basis. Literally a super genius. Those kids are special just like the kids that are on the short bus make no mistake about it, they just come with a different set of challenges. I would wish it on no one.

I will say though that all of the kids at DA realize that the education they are given free comes with the expectation that they do something with it. The hope is that they solve the climate crisis and cure cancer etc. My daughter is a double major in medicine and computer science. She wants to be the surgeon that programs the surgical computerized robots of the future. But someone else will have to drive her.