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UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
I'm intrigued by this.
That is Chris trying to identify what the chassis number actually is. What do y'all think?
Is it an 8 or a 3?
Is it an 8 or a 3?
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UTC quote
Nice work. You guys rocked that mod.
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UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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@safis avatar
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UTC quote
VIN is probably 49759 which would put it correctly in 1963. Should be a stamped star between the prefix and serial. Maybe use a wire brush to clean the surface rust...

These are the serials produced from 1962 to 1965

VLA1T 1962 1001 - 5958
VLA1T 1963 5959 - 57103
VLA1T 1964 57104 - 78009
VLA1T 1965 78010 - 80855
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UTC quote
+1 on 49759
OP
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UTC

Enthusiast
P200
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Location: Springfield, Oregon
 
Enthusiast
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P200
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UTC quote
Thanks for help on the numbers guys it's been a real head scratcher for me.
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UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa
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Molto Verboso
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Vespa
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UTC quote
try doing a rubbing with paper and pencil I've had the DMV do this.
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Scootnewb wrote:
Thanks for help on the numbers guys it's been a real head scratcher for me.
That "3" is an 8.

A Piaggio 3 would have a sharp upper-right corner, like your 7.

VLA1T24849759
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
Good info on the chassis number guys! Thank you!

So I've been checking out the wiring. It is definitely original for a VLA1T w/battery. Thank you scooterhelp.

So the way I see it, I've got three option. Whatever option I go with it'll need a handlebar switch, brake switch, and a regulator. Also, the stator is a 7 wire P200e stator.

1) Use original harness and modify for stator
2) Buy a new harness for non battery and modify for p200 stator
3) build my own

And then there is going full 12VDC and headlight config. It's original headlight case so it'd be great to stick a bulb in it and have.it "work" whether it's 12AC or DC. I have experience with hooking up a 12VAC Vape system.

For example, The 62 Allstate had both brake and handlebar switches 6v system. The VAPE 12VAC system worked great hooked up to the loom and I bought 12v bulbs from AutoZone that are still working 2 years later.

So my question to you all is: what would you do, and how would you do it?

Any input would be appreciated Thank you
VLA1T W/BATTERY it matches the colors in the existing harness.
VLA1T W/BATTERY it matches the colors in the existing harness.
The 7-wire stator. The engine currently will start and run like this.
The 7-wire stator. The engine currently will start and run like this.
The headlamp bezel and mount
The headlamp bezel and mount
Handlebar switch wiring
Handlebar switch wiring
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
After staring at the wiring diagram for a day I've decided to use the original wiring and leave the system AC.

I called "The Market" and talked with Matt, and he steered me in the right direction for the brake switch, headset switch, and 12VAC regulator. With that on its way, I decided to start it up and check the stator output.

13.1VAC between the red and yellow wires. It's a single yellow stator. So while I wait for the switches to arrive, I'll study the wiring diagram some more and figure out how and where to hook it all up.

And in the meantime I'll take apart the headset and clean & grease everything. Then the front hub. Then the fork.
What a fancy temporary gas tank
What a fancy temporary gas tank
The fork and wires. I thinkk the wires are supposed to come up on the right, not the left. Any ideas?
The fork and wires. I thinkk the wires are supposed to come up on the right, not the left. Any ideas?
Another angle
Another angle
All the headset parts ready to be cleaned and put back together
All the headset parts ready to be cleaned and put back together
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
whodatschrome wrote:
One last thing, is the cap for that oil reservoir vented?
Here is a picture of the cap. I might make a bigger vent hole, just to be on the safe side.
A little small for my comfort
A little small for my comfort
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UTC quote
A quick note of kudos. Again... great mod... The oil tank fix has a fair amount of genius in the simplicity. Really really cool fix.

*tips hat*
UTC

Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
qascooter wrote:
Here is a picture of the cap. I might make a bigger vent hole, just to be on the safe side.
You'll be fine. That vent hole on yours looks to be twice the size of mine
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Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
Thanks BirdsNest! I think it's going to work out well!

And that's good to know FM. Thank you!

Today I don't have much time, but did get the rusty bits in to soak in a bin of E.vaporust. also took some 0000 steel wool to the inside of the headset.
Evaporust to make cleaning easier
Evaporust to make cleaning easier
The inside of the headset is looking good...
The inside of the headset is looking good...
Breakfast of champions
Breakfast of champions
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UTC quote
Not to scare you… but it appears the shifter tube has a pretty significant tumor.

;-
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
Birdsnest wrote:
Not to scare you… but it appears the shifter tube has a pretty significant tumor.

;-
Ha! That's pretty funny - it's got a TUMURR Razz emoticon
Tumor extracted!
Tumor extracted!
⚠️ Last edited by qascooter on UTC; edited 1 time
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UTC

Hooked
1960 Allstate VNA, 1962 VNB
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Hooked
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UTC quote
Birdsnest wrote:
Not to scare you… but it appears the shifter tube has a pretty significant tumor.

;-
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
What a crack up! Razz emoticon

I managed to pull the parts out of the Evaporust, rinse with water, then scrub down with steel wool and a wire brush, and WD-40, Then rinse with WD-40 and wipe down.

The headset is now ready to be reassembled with grease...
Wiping the parts down
Wiping the parts down
Ready for reassembly
Ready for reassembly
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UTC

The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
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The Dude
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UTC quote
Great work guys! This GL is gonB GoodLookin. Keep it up
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UTC quote
qascooter wrote:
That is Chris trying to identify what the chassis number actually is. What do y'all think?
I ran into this problem trying to lift a key code off the lock cylinder for my bus. I took a photo with my iPhone, enlarged it and played with the filters, contrast, etc until I could see it clearly. Actually, I do this with stuff other people can see. You could also take a photo of the backside and reverse the photo.
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UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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bodgemaster
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UTC quote
Here's some minutiae I just noticed ...

Does your GL have a dot or a line on the shifter tube between 1 and 2? What about the headset - line or pointer?

The guy in charge of stamping probably just grabbed whatever was nearby.

What do others have?
Line on tube and pointer on the headset
Line on tube and pointer on the headset
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Does your GL have a dot or a line on the shifter tube between 1 and 2? What about the headset - line or pointer?
Dot and line...
Sit and line, or is that a pointer?
Sit and line, or is that a pointer?
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
I downloaded the parts manual to see what parts we're missing in the headset. A number of parts, it turns out.

I did manage to put the shifter tube back together, and after 10 minutes of wrestling, got the aluminum cover off the fork. It was crusted on and probably hasn't been off in 48 years...

I'm going to pull the hub apart before placing another order...
Like Buttah now. It was like 80 grit before
Like Buttah now. It was like 80 grit before
No pin in the hub, and needs major cleaning, and a new brake pin, and brakes...
No pin in the hub, and needs major cleaning, and a new brake pin, and brakes...
Eee-gads, that's some nasty crud. I'm surprised its still alive and moving
Eee-gads, that's some nasty crud. I'm surprised its still alive and moving
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Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
What The? emoticon Today was productive, and destructive....

I pulled the front hub apart, and it was a rusty, crusty mess, and removed the whole front steering column.

The shock bolt was frozen in the hub casting and the shock tube. I used penetrating oil, cleaner, and heat. I started by tapping, then escalated to pounding and still nothing. I put a wrench on the bolt and FINALLY got some moment, and the two prominent points on the shock tube promptly broke the casting of the swing arm. F$&k! Out came the pipe wrench.

Between the pipe wrench holding the shock tube, and the wrench turning the bolt, I managed to get the shock tube out, and pounded the bolt out of the swingarm.

So now I don't know if I can use this swingarm. I'm bummed ...
This thing is crusty and flattened out
This thing is crusty and flattened out
Got the axle and bearings out
Got the axle and bearings out
The brake lever barely turned! It was froze in the housing. I had to tap it out. Even with new shoes the brakes wouldn't work
The brake lever barely turned! It was froze in the housing. I had to tap it out. Even with new shoes the brakes wouldn't work
Wrong nuts and bolts for the fender. I'm just gonna pull it
Wrong nuts and bolts for the fender. I'm just gonna pull it
Snapped the spring mount off, it was so rusted
Snapped the spring mount off, it was so rusted
Clump of rusty bearings from the pivot
Clump of rusty bearings from the pivot
A block of rust in there
A block of rust in there
Swingarm with brake and pivot pins removed
Swingarm with brake and pivot pins removed
Disaster. I finally got that dang bolt out, but look at the carnage.  Do you think I could still use it?
Disaster. I finally got that dang bolt out, but look at the carnage. Do you think I could still use it?
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UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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bodgemaster
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UTC quote
Ouch. Had the same problem, shock bolt was fused to the swing arm and wouldn't budge. For future reference, took it to a machine shop and the guy told me the trick is to heat the bolt until it's cherry red hot, then tap or press it out.

Add to shopping list.

https://www.scooterwest.com/front-fork-swing-arm-assembly-sprint-rally-078724.html
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UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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@safis avatar
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UTC quote
Vaporblast and weld. It's original and definitely better than any repro part, especially the ones from FA that have more mozzarella in them, than aluminum…
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Ffffffffaaaaaaaaaaaa

ck

Sorry man. What a kick in the berries.
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parallelogramerist
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parallelogramerist
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UTC quote
That sucks big time Scott.

And by the way, if you're wanting to clean the VIN so that you can read it better, scrub it with a little wire brush (and not a wire wheel!) and Ospho. After a few minutes of scrubbing the metal will become very shiny (keep it wet the whole time). You might have to repeat the process a few times, but you'll have excellent results.
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Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Ouch. Had the same problem, shock bolt was fused to the swing arm and wouldn't budge. For future reference, took it to a machine shop and the guy told me the trick is to heat the bolt until it's cherry red hot, then tap or press it out.

Add to shopping list.

https://www.scooterwest.com/front-fork-swing-arm-assembly-sprint-rally-078724.html
Thanks Mike! And great info for future tteference. In hindsight I should've torched the bolt. Makes sense.

We're going to go this way as a last resort. The new hubs are different than the old hubs, and require you buy all new hardware, and probably a new axle at that point to fit. I went through that when updating the VNB2 front end.

But worse come to worse, it's not the end of the world and we can buy new...
See the bolt setup? It requires a clip between them to hold them in place
See the bolt setup? It requires a clip between them to hold them in place
The original uses actual bolts and are recessed in the swingarm
The original uses actual bolts and are recessed in the swingarm
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UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
Vaporblast and weld. It's original and definitely better than any repro part, especially the ones from FA that have more mozzarella in them, than aluminum…
Thanks SaFiS! And I think I know just the welder here in town. Then I can just file the channels clean.

The hard part is finding a vapor blaster in the area, which they're aren't any. I'm gonna call a couple car guys. They all have media cabinets though, and not vapor blasting...
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
Birdsnest wrote:
Sorry man. What a kick in the berries.
Yeah, I had to walk away and swear like a sailer that just lost his sail....

But today is a new day and the seas don't look as rough

I mean, the top edge of the mount is still there, so theoretically I could just use it as is, and it should work fine. I've seen people grind off the tabs to make the shock work, so ...
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UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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UTC quote
maybe you could have it repaired by weld / machine / drill out again. It seems like nothing worse than what Gick regularly repairs on engine cases. Maybe cheaper than a new one too or the same cost but saves you replacing other bits.
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
whodatschrome wrote:
That sucks big time Scott.

And by the way....
Thanks JohnnyG! I'm gonna try this, or Chris will.
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Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
sdjohn wrote:
maybe you could have it repaired by weld / machine / drill out again. It seems like nothing worse than what Gick regularly repairs on engine cases. Maybe cheaper than a new one too or the same cost but saves you replacing other bits.
Yes! Thank you John! This is what the calm seas of a new day are bringing to my peabrain while I swill some coffee and contemplate the front end.

And thank you all for the conformation and alternatives. With these 50+ year old machines, it seems there is always a Plan A, Plan B, and C, D & E, just in case A doesn't pan out, which it rarely does.

This one rattled me though. I fought with every single nut and bolt taking this front end apart, and the shock bolt was the last piece to remove....
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UTC quote
qascooter wrote:
Thanks JohnnyG! I'm gonna try this, or Chris will.
I usually start out with a brass brush since it's a bit softer. If i'm not getting the results i'm after, then i'll switch out to a stainless steel. They're cheap to buy at Homo Depo. I've also bought them at a welding supply store as well. Make sure to wear gloves and glasses since that Ospho seems to get spattered everywhere when you're scrubbing with a wire brush.
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Location: northern New York
 
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UTC quote
Happens to the best of us. Always seems to happen when you are coming down the home stretch.
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Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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Location: Florence, OR
 
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UTC quote
e parts is the next order of business. I've been degreasing the bearings and scrubbing the 59 years of gunk off these parts.

I'm soaking some in Evaporust that have some rust, then wire brush. I'll break out the Dremel with the abrasive heads tomorrow to take the next layer off. I haven't found someone in town yet that does vapor blasting, but I'll keep looking.
Jeez, these parts are gunky
Jeez, these parts are gunky
Cleaning up the steering tube
Cleaning up the steering tube
The speedo gear was frozen in the housing....
The speedo gear was frozen in the housing....
Lots of.parts soaking in Evaporust
Lots of.parts soaking in Evaporust
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Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
I hope everyone had a Happy Thanksgiving and y'all ate your fill. I made a couple pumpkin p.i.e.s with a gluten free graham cracker crust that was delicious! And of course, real whipped cream, by hand, with a touch of nutmeg and vanilla.

But I digress. A friend of mine in town said I should try these aluminum rods to weld the pieces back in to the shock mount, and he gave a few to use.

Big fail. the chip essentially melted into a puddle. I at least have it shot. Time to take the piece to the welder.

In the meantime, I'm cleaning up the parts of the front end to paint. We're going to go the route exmayor went on one of his smallies - ford wheel paint grey and satin clear.
Yummm
Yummm
Epic fail with those aluminum rods. Time to take it to a professional
Epic fail with those aluminum rods. Time to take it to a professional
Lots of sanding and cleanup to do before paint
Lots of sanding and cleanup to do before paint
Paint from AutoZone
Paint from AutoZone
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Yummy stuff there and good luck on the welding!
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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88 Days Since Last Explosion
 
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UTC quote
Yeah, building up aluminum is a lot harder than building up steel, I've found. I pretty much have to just build up a giant pile and then machine it back down to what I wanted in the first place.
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UTC

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Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2779
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
Yeah, building up aluminum is a lot harder than building up steel, I've found. I pretty much have to just build up a giant pile and then machine it back down to what I wanted in the first place.
That's how I weld everything. I could only get so good at welding, so I became an accomplished grinder.
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