Modern Vespa

No history. Do know that the oil injection has been deleted. When I take the carb off I will see if the gear for the pump is removed or if he just left it. So the PO could have also put in way too much 2T.

I wouldn't base the plug on anything till you get a little bit of a ride on it. I've seen them color up bad from sitting and getting started all of a sudden.

I sort the critical shit and take it out for a very soft test ride and see where you're at to start with a baseline.

but 10yrs on seals, the reaper is chasing you down my dude.

*shakes magic 8-ball*

"it is decidedly so*

*shakes again*

"it's not carb, all signs point to electrical*

Hey - good news!
Love that it started.
Plug looks ok - as in - its not covered in aluminum balls from piston top detonation, or chalk white from lean conditions.
So you are likely not way out - though its worth reading below to understand what you're seeing when you look at the plug currently.

What you know: it wasn't so far out that it was causing detonation.
What you don't know: if it will hold up on a hot day to some exuberant riding, and if it's getting all the power out that you could.

So perhaps good enough to just go as is - but below is some additional.
Take what you want.
Throw the rest away.

To know if you are well jetted in for durability and power - its got to get fully warm before you look at the plug.
Second item I often remark on, is that the plug will reflect the conditions based on throttle position from the last 30-45 seconds of running.
(first being that you have to watch out for un-drilled carbs that choke off gas to what you think is a big jet).
Plugs change color faster than you might imagine
So pulling the plug after you come back in to the neighborhood - is probably reflecting more your idle jet from putting home on 1/4 throttle than your main jet from when you were thumping it.

With SI carbs, you want to get the main stack right - and then go after the idle jet.
Learned this from Jack - and its been true with all SI carbs I've jetted in.

To get the main right - you want to be able to run it under load - then pull the plug as close to instantly as you can from that moment - so you can see what color you have.
Easier than it sounds.

If you have a long stretch - that you can run WOT in 3rd gear - then pull over to pull the plug - this is great.
Wind blowing against you? Even better.
Throw a kid or wife on the back and tell them its for science - also good!
Not sure if you have the desire or topography, but the idea is - run it just flat out in 3rd for a good 15 seconds - then hit the kill button and coast down. Let it cool a bit - pull the plug - and shoot pictures in daylight from a couple angles.
This will tell you how your main jet is.
Then you can move to the idle jet - normally with just using your ear.
Quick to return to idle from a thwop of the throttle.
Little to no 4 stroking when you take off from the light.

All that said - there is a second opportunity here that would be a pretty good proxy.
It won't be quite as good - but it will tell you a lot about how close you are to well jetted.

Pull the head and look at the piston top.
Here is a couple pictures of my piston top from a rebuild about 2 months ago.
I use a little scope camera from amazon ($35).

The first is what it looked like when I was first breaking in - it was rich at the time and hadn't developed its color.
The second was shot after a weekend of demanding riding.
It is black to within a pinky nail of the edge of the inlet ports.
This is how I like my piston tops to look.


running a bit rich - but not fully colored yet. Not enough time on it at this point to know but seamed headed in right direction

After a 100 mile ride with plenty of thrashing. Pinky nail of reveal is where the fuel comes in and washes the edge of the piston. This is right on the money in my book.

hahaha - greasy covered it in 5 sentences.
I wrote a book...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

different apples, same tree hombre.

starting from square one (like here) is totally different ball of wax than rolling with something that's more complete and dialed and ready to ride. this is project status and should be treated as such.

asses the wiring. do we need to throw it all out and run a new harness or can we repair.
suss out the safety shit (COTTER PINS ARE THEY THERE) plus like brakes and is everything tight and shit isn't a bajillion years old (looking at you tubes and tires)

then, sort out the fuel. how's the tank and tap?

yank the head and see what's up. what you got cookin' up in that piece.
pull the carb down for a strip & dip, sort out the box and gaskets. you can give a hairy eyeball to the crank at the same time. if you have a degree wheel? have at it.

then you know what you're dealing with at least.

knock it all back together and give it a run around the neighborhood and see where you're at.

Thanks for the interest and the fabulous suggestions and recommendations. Based on what I have encountered in the small stripdown I have done so far I am not at all confident that this scoot was put together safely. So I am being torn between a full stripdown and rebuild and a partial one. Doing what Greasy suggests, with what I have seen so far is, will likely result in an almost full teardown. So I have decided that that is what I am going to do – strip and rebuild.

This weekend I will start to take it all apart – soo looking forward to that. Frame and body panels to the blaster. The rest I will do myself (including bodywork and paint). A project to keep me busy for the next year. What I can restore I will. Everything else I will replace.

I may split the motor and replace the seals and other wear bits. Not sure just yet.

I see lots of hours refurbishing every little thing. Its going to be a labor. I enjoy that kind of stuff.

When all is done it is likely that I will have more into it than I could ever sell it for but I got it for a great price so it may be close. And it will still be less than a golf membership for a year (or so I tell my bride)!!!

I will probably post progress and questions. But not in the detail that Robot's videos do. That's already been done and repeated many times on the forum. The feedback from the group provides knowledge, energy and accountability.

Stay tuned.

do the motor.

you're doing everything else, so it'd be false economy not to.

you'll be happy you did. trust me.

Of course, if you do everything but the motor, you'll at least look good while you're pushing it home or waiting on the tow truck.

Long day but very successful. All apart. Now down to individual projects like restore front end, brakes, gas tank, replace seals on engine, etc.

Should I go back to oil injection? Decisions, decisions.

I have a question about removing the electrical connection for the rear indicators (turn signals) from the frame and the cowl. In the frame there is a nylon type connector. How do you remove that? Same with the bayonet connection at the rear of the cowl.

This scoot is clean, not a drop of rust and so few dings it is amazing. So pleased about that. The tunnel inside is perfect. It has been red (burgundy), blue, orange, yellow and green. And amazing to see what a crappy job they did each time. Harness is not recoverable.

Pics paint the picture....


Let the fun begin

Progress. Parts moving from here to....

Here!

Plugged the pump drive hole with an ear plug ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Look at this tunnel!!! Just some dust on the floor.

Front end and engine out - basically everything out - help from my good friend Steve.

Been every color under the sun.

All done. All the parts went from that to...

To this.

Ready for blasting.

the rug doormats really tie the room together.

I see you also absconded with the leftovers from the friday night breakdance competition.

but a man cut from the same cloth, all those hammers! shit yeah!

Well this is exciting! What are you putting in the engine? Maybe a 60mm crank perhaps?

I get all the old throw rugs too, and use them till I can't tell the color, then pitch them. They work great in the garage!

Much thanks, decoration is secondary. Mats serve two purposes. 1) old knees on foam mats (I don't have a lift); 2) dropped hardware does not run off matts. This will need some explanation. No clue to the reference.

Nope, just cleaning it up. Will be whatever it is.

the cardboard!

Got It! Thats for oil. See all logical!

I'd restore the autolube. Looks like someone just pulled the driveshaft. You have the valve cap, and very likely the gearing behind the clutch. If just to have the sight glass back it'd be worth it IMO -- well, along with the reliability and convenience.
So a driveshaft, oil tank and likely done.

I'd also get a box exhaust, just so it looks and sounds more like a Vespa.

I will look if the gear has been removed when I take the clutch out. Without the drive, gear, tank, sight glass, etc. it will start adding up fast. But there is a member of the forum that has reached out that may have some ideas. Thanks for reaching out. NOPE! I'm good with that pipe for now!

If loud pipes save lives, with that JL on it, you'll live forever.

The engine on this scoot does not have an engine number. It is not in the typical place and there are no filing marks - its clean casting marks. Any ideas?

Looks like Piaggio replacement motor cases.

Cool.

I'm jealous of that clean tunnel. Mine was a lot of work on an otherwise rust free bike.




After endless sandblasting

This scoot has been so many colors....


Just Sayin.....

Might be easier to just try to figure out the colors it hasn't been.

How about keeping it as part of the history???

^^^ sean wotherspoon inspired?

Today was a fabrication day. Thanks to Hec in Omaha, I had some plans for the magical levitation stand for painting. So, I made that today. A few mods on Hec's design. I really beefed it up hoping I can also use it to put the front-end in. I think it is great. Super little stand.

I am waiting for the DMV Inspector to let me know if the VIN is clean before I go on with the work. I have found a blaster that will do it in my driveway. Uses glass, not sand, so that will be my next move. Says it will take about an hour to blast.

I tried to put the motor in my engine stand today. Are the P200 cases different from the 150? The rear brake is hanging up on my upright.

Enjoy the pics


Ready for welding

Put in an angled piece to make it able to have infinite angles.





Closeup details

Any chance you share the plans/measurements of your stand? Looks perfect for painting!

Hec In Omaha shared his drawing with me. Please PM him (https://modernvespa.com/members/hec_in_omaha) and I'm sure he will send it to you. Don't want to take the credit for his design.

Looks like about 24" square with the crossbar bracket at about a 20 degree angle, 1" square 1/8" tubing.

Doesn't have to be exact, just has to be wide enough it's not prone to tipping over.

I wish I'd seen this *before* I painted the VBB, but that's life.

Thumbs up on the stand, looks sturdy.

Also, it'll store compactly, which is a definite bonus for something you won't use all the time.

Color me envy green! Think even my old body could put a stand like that to use with little or no help….

No, they're the same. Getting that rear stand upright built can be tricky since the design assumes the motor is hanging from the shock. Some stands handle it pretty well, and others just kind've suck.

It's similar to how you can only install the pipe and run the motor on a small subset of available stands.

Chatis

Looks great man! The stand mods a great too! I'm glad the drawings worked for ya!

If anybody else would like a PDF of my stand just pm your email addy and I'll shoot them to ya!

Here's mine


Hecs Stand

you can attach the PDF to a post, you just can't send it via PM, so share it up here!

I have been contemplating a similar idea using a 4 wheel wooden floor dolly for moving furniture etc. Want to be able to move scooter around with back wheel off.

Here is what I did for that dolly: https://modernvespa.com/forum/post2443900#2443900. Scroll down about three pictures.

But this is a different stand. Its like an access stand.

You mean something like this?

You can wheel your Vespa around when the engine is out easily with this stand. If the engine is in, you can still raise the rear wheel up using the long "L-shaped" support. I can easily pivot my P125X a full 360 degrees on my Harbor Freight hydraulic motor cycle lift table. That's how I removed the fork. I didn't want to remove the front tire chock so I just spun the whole thing around 180 degrees and dropped the fork off the other end of the motorcycle table! BTW putting my P125X on and off the stand by myself is a breeze!

Here is a PDF drawing of the stand. Enjoy!

Hec

Vespa Stand-Model.pdf
Description:	Hec In Omaha's Vespa Stand PDF	Download
Filename:	Vespa Stand-Model.pdf
Filesize:	96.65 KB