Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:37 pm

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
 
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:37 pm linkquote
Goldilocks and The Three Bears

There is not a lot of information on how to remove the needle and roller bearings from the front hub online. Lots on how to install new ones with special tools or sockets.

Some desperation turned to some ingenuity. In involves a punch (Goldilocks) and three thick washers (the three bears).

The small washer goes through the needle bearing on the front axle and fits the inner race on the roller bearing perfectly. The middle washer fits the front axle needle bearing perfectly. And the large washer fits the spindle needle bearing perfectly.

These are just standard imperial thick washers. Hope this helps someone one day.













Sun Apr 17, 2022 9:18 pm

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 3139
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 3139
Location: california
Sun Apr 17, 2022 9:18 pm linkquote
I don't think the cases being ported changes anything.

If you want to go the low cost way, my list is probably still a good roadmap.

Couple good suggestions above.
1. Muriatic acid outside. Clean up the CYLINDER. Not sure it should be used for the piston. Socal can clarify for you.
2. A box exhaust would be a very reasonable investment to make it grungier if you would like a bit more oomph.
Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:00 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5656
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5656
Location: Nashville
Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:00 am linkquote
Chatis wrote:
Goldilocks and The Three Bears

There is not a lot of information on how to remove the needle and roller bearings from the front hub online. Lots on how to install new ones with special tools or sockets.
Nice improvisation! I do similar stuff, but always replace the bearings with modern (and sealed where an option) equivalents.

And as to instructions, the Haynes manual clearly specified, "Inspect bearings for wear. Refresh if necessary." How much more instruction did you need?
Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:10 am

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
 
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:10 am linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
And as to instructions, the Haynes manual clearly specified, "Inspect bearings for wear. Refresh if necessary." How much more instruction did you need?
Well, I don't have a Haynes manual! Dang! No, I am planning on blasting and either powder coating or painting so thought removing and replacing would be a good idea.

On your suggestion of replacement bearings for sealed modern bearings, does someone have a list of the modern equivalents? Do the kits the shops and part suppliers sell include the modern equivalents.

And as I think is there a spec on the best wire to use to make a harness and the gauge of the wire for the different circuits. Seems harnesses are in short supply together with RH headset switches!
Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:16 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5656
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5656
Location: Nashville
Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:16 am linkquote
I measure the bearing spec's, then order by dimensions. Some of them you can find on Mercato, SIP, etc. Others, you're looking at Grainger or the like. I've even gotten some low-risk bearings (e.g. to replace the bushings in the swingarm pivot) off Amazon.

A good pair of calipers are your friend int his case.
Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:14 pm

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
 
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:14 pm linkquote
This scoot is consuming me. It's a good consumption. I am enjoying learning and discovering. Everything has be done. The scoot is now completely stripped for blasting and all the little bits are also disassembled. I am going to have that all blasted hopefully next week.

I have been thinking about the engine a lot. The inlet porting on the cases has me thinking what head was on there? Today I did some coloring in. I sorta mapped the porting on the case to the cylinder. I have seen that a fun modification to a stock 200 jug is to add porting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B3E4pX_p40 - starting around 3:27) so I wanted to see how close the porting on the case was to this upgrade. There is no resemblance. So if I were to do this I would fill the existing porting with epoxy and cut new ports in the case and the cylinder.

So, still use standard cylinder and standard piston but with a small porting upgrade. By the way, the case porting looks like its for a Malossi 210.

Pics below...

Thoughts?


Case Template


Only matching port - original obviously


Where the one internal port is


Where the other internal port is


Red - where ports needed. Blue where ports need to be filled in.


Approximate cutout for the cylinder ports. One each side.

Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:15 pm

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
 
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:15 pm linkquote
Thoughts on restoring versus purchasing new.

Yesterday I spent the best part of three hours trying to get the tire off the rims. Managed to get three of the cruddy rusted half rims off, the fourth is still stubbornly adhered. Mixed in with the frustration, busted knuckles, abuse and wild swearing comes the thought – is it worth it? I have spent a huge amount of time just getting them off. Then the cost of blasting them, prepping them for paint or powder coat, treating them and then they are finished. From an economic standpoint I can get two new black rims for $50. There are so many parts that this relates to. Too many to mention but clutches, hubs, handlebar levers, brake parts, etc.

There is a cost to restoring; and sometimes more that replacing. Is the quality of the original worth it? Where do you draw the line??
Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:12 pm

Enthusiast
1980 P125X US Spec
Joined: 13 Jan 2022
Posts: 55
Location: Beaver Lake, Nebraska USA
 
Enthusiast
1980 P125X US Spec
Joined: 13 Jan 2022
Posts: 55
Location: Beaver Lake, Nebraska USA
Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:12 pm linkquote
Sounds familiar! I had a couple of rims that I easily split but struggled to get the tires free. I ended up spraying the rims with WD-40 and let it soak overnight. The next day I smacked the tires a couple of times with a rubber mallet and wha-La the tires came free. What an ordeal! I figured it would take 20 mins per tire to get everything apart! Wrong!

Hec
Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:45 pm

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6401
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6401
Location: So Cal
Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:45 pm linkquote
Unless you're a glutton for punishment, have lots of time to kill, or on a really tight budget, replace the rims. Not worth the hassle.
Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:58 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11133
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11133
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:58 pm linkquote
yo. picking it up late to the party, but it seems you've got a stock cylinder on a set of cases that were ported for a malossi 210

what's the crank? might be worth a Hail Mary... depending. check the stroke and rod length and timing. if it's stock, it's trash.

head has been reprofiled, which is cool and the gang. you can run that on pretty much anything. I mean, I'd double check it on the build but I wouldn't bin it for sure.

that top end ain't shit man. it's bone stock. you have a 4-corner on it, so it's probably runnable. scuff it down. hit the barrel, check the ring gap and ship it. with that head it should be a decent runner.

if you want the zoom-zooms save the pipe. otherwise peddle that for other rebuild parts. but it doesn't play nice with stock carb and cylinders. it wants ALL the big carb and exhaust timing.
Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:36 pm

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
 
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:36 pm linkquote
This is where I am at the moment....
greasy125 wrote:
what's the crank?
I am ordering a 60mm Mazzi crank.
greasy125 wrote:
head has been reprofiled, which is cool and the gang. you can run that on pretty much anything.
How do you see this - education please.
greasy125 wrote:
you have a 4-corner on it, so it's probably runnable. scuff it down. hit the barrel, check the ring gap and ship it. with that head it should be a decent runner.
I am going to add two ports to the cylinder per the post above. Then I am going to match the case to the new ports and epoxy up the unused porting.
greasy125 wrote:
if you want the zoom-zooms save the pipe. but it doesn't play nice with stock carb and cylinders. it wants ALL the big carb and exhaust timing.
I want to use that pipe . With the additional ports and some jetting I am hoping to make it a reliable runner with a little more than the stock P200.
Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:07 am

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 2492
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 2492
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:07 am linkquote
Chatis wrote:
This scoot is consuming me. It's a good consumption. I am enjoying learning and discovering. Everything has be done. The scoot is now completely stripped for blasting and all the little bits are also disassembled. I am going to have that all blasted hopefully next week.

I have been thinking about the engine a lot. The inlet porting on the cases has me thinking what head was on there? Today I did some coloring in. I sorta mapped the porting on the case to the cylinder. I have seen that a fun modification to a stock 200 jug is to add porting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B3E4pX_p40 - starting around 3:27) so I wanted to see how close the porting on the case was to this upgrade. There is no resemblance. So if I were to do this I would fill the existing porting with epoxy and cut new ports in the case and the cylinder.

So, still use standard cylinder and standard piston but with a small porting upgrade. By the way, the case porting looks like its for a Malossi 210.

Pics below...

Thoughts?
Not sure you even need to fill extra port area, What's they going to hurt?
Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:37 am

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
 
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:37 am linkquote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
Not sure you even need to fill extra port area, What's they going to hurt?
I am thinking that there will be more area for the gasket to seat on. Without filling there will only be a thin rim between the case and cylinder. But that is my thought, not sure if it is valid.
Sat May 07, 2022 7:00 pm

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
 
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
Sat May 07, 2022 7:00 pm linkquote
Monday the frame and parts will be blasted. Spent the morning prepping the parts to protect sensitive areas. Pics show what I did with the hope that it helps someone else who needs to do the same thing.

Am I missing anything????


All the "other parts"


Front axle. Painting tape, duct tape and inner tube with zip ties. Finally, a use for all the inner tubes I have.


Front fork and left shifter. Same protection.


Hubs. My collection of washers coming handy. Rubber wrapped around sensitive areas.




Heat shrink on threads.




How do these two things get removed without fubar'ing them.


How do these two things get removed without fubar'ing them.

Sun May 08, 2022 4:19 am

Enthusiast
1980 P125X US Spec
Joined: 13 Jan 2022
Posts: 55
Location: Beaver Lake, Nebraska USA
 
Enthusiast
1980 P125X US Spec
Joined: 13 Jan 2022
Posts: 55
Location: Beaver Lake, Nebraska USA
Sun May 08, 2022 4:19 am linkquote
I gently tapped them out on my 1980 P125X. I put the square end of a deep socket so the wire terminal fit in the square drive hole and lightly tapped on the socket with a small hammer. I believe I used a 10mm deep socket.

Hec
Sun May 08, 2022 5:15 am

Addicted
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 754
Location: northern New York
 
Addicted
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 754
Location: northern New York
Sun May 08, 2022 5:15 am linkquote
I fiddled them around a little first, just to get them moving and put a little lube on them…WD40 or dish soap, just to ease them out a little better.
Mon May 09, 2022 6:21 am

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11133
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11133
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Mon May 09, 2022 6:21 am linkquote
Chatis wrote:
This is where I am at the moment....


I am ordering a 60mm Mazzi crank.

How do you see this - education please.

I am going to add two ports to the cylinder per the post above. Then I am going to match the case to the new ports and epoxy up the unused porting.

I want to use that pipe . With the additional ports and some jetting I am hoping to make it a reliable runner with a little more than the stock P200.
apologies for the late reply...

60 crank is bueno.

head has been reprofiled or skimmed due to the lack of ridge on the mating lip, the pattern on the surface and that it has less of a "jockey cap" look. appears to be a good job, especially for an early 210 set up.

personally, I wouldn't epoxy up anything as long as all of your sealing surfaces, like, sealed. there's really not much of a benefit tbh and the risk of that coming apart negates any benefit you may get.

it looks like somebody had at it on that stock piston a little. photos might be misleading, so without having it in my hands or accurate measurements I can't really say. but that barrel looks untouched. with that head, it may come correct, but with the new crank, you're gonna be doing some measuring. so keep that in mind that you're probably not plug and play.

it sounds like you wanna do an O-tune. so anything you can do to make it breathe better would be great, especially with that pipe. but really a GS piston and getting after with the Dremel would make it sing. otherwise it's gonna be a chore to ride and the pick would be a big box.

however, you could just snap on a malossi and roll. sell that top end and crank for a hundy to offset the cost and you'd be in high cotton coming and going. pipe would match too. or if you want something more mellow adios the pipe so you can add that to the offset and grab something more mellow.

it really comes down to expectations and riding style.
Wed May 11, 2022 1:16 pm

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
 
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
Wed May 11, 2022 1:16 pm linkquote
Blasting and getting ready for Epoxy Primer...

Pics speak for themselves. Very little damage to this scooter. Body looks really great. Few cracks and some little welds. Two issues...

Right cowl will need some bodywork and light filler. There are ripples and deep gouges.

I think the steering lock piece has broken off. Going to have to fab some sort of replacement.








Treated with Eastwood After Blast. That stuff is fricken nasty!!!!


I think the stop is broken off. Will need to fabricate something for this!!!


Few areas that will need some attention marked with masking tape.

Wed May 11, 2022 1:34 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5656
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 5656
Location: Nashville
Wed May 11, 2022 1:34 pm linkquote
Seeing paint and bodywork happening makes me happy.
Wed May 11, 2022 1:42 pm

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2929
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2929
Location: Veria, Greece
Wed May 11, 2022 1:42 pm linkquote
Doing great!!

About the fork, probably a casting flaw, I wouldn't care. Nothing to do with stops (see circled in pic)...



Mon May 16, 2022 6:11 am

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
 
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
Mon May 16, 2022 6:11 am linkquote
Removing Grips

Anyone have a proven method of removing grips without damage or is this a cut off and replace thing?
Mon May 16, 2022 6:38 am

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8535
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8535
Location: seattle/athens
Mon May 16, 2022 6:38 am linkquote
Wrap in steaming hot wet rag and pry a small gap at the opening. Blow air in there and any glue should pop free. Push them off at the flange as required, don't try to pull.

Not destroying old usable grips: I totally approve!
Tue May 17, 2022 7:16 am

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
 
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
Tue May 17, 2022 7:16 am linkquote
V oodoo wrote:
Blow air in there and any glue should pop free. Push them off at the flange as required, don't try to pull.
Worked like a charm. Sorta inflated and then pulled off a little with each blast. Perfect! Thank you.
Sun May 22, 2022 5:44 pm

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
 
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
Sun May 22, 2022 5:44 pm linkquote
Repairs and bodywork continue....


Straightening bent body sections and leg shields


Steve welding up cracks


Making sure that all is symmetrical


That tunnel - Soo sweet


Been knocking down the blasting with sanding. I hate sanding. Best tools I have found for this are the oscillating tool (gets into tight places and seams) and the Sandnet. Did I say I do not like sanding? Hope to shoot primer next weekend.

Thu May 26, 2022 12:57 pm

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
 
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
Thu May 26, 2022 12:57 pm linkquote
First of many boxes arrived.... Many more to come I am sure.





Fri May 27, 2022 2:44 pm

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
 
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 226
Location: Kansas City
Fri May 27, 2022 2:44 pm linkquote
PX Hardware Kit

I got a bag of hardware with the scooter. The bag says PX Hardware and inside are bags labeled LML 1 through 21, sealed. Bag 2, 3, 7, 10, and 19 missing.

Does anyone have any idea where these came from and what the missing bags were? I can see that some of the bags (1 through 5 for example) are all engine hardware including case bolts and circlips. Bag 9 and 11 are front and rear brake. Bag 20 has every spring on the scooter. There is a bag with stand hardware, headset hardware and wheel nuts. Some bags I cannot identify the hardware. All bolts have "PAS" on the heads.

Is this decent hardware? Going to use original as much as possible but this is all clean and shiny!



  DoubleGood Vespa Design  

All Content Copyright 2005-2022 by Modern Vespa. All Rights Reserved.

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com.

Shop on Amazon Smile with Modern Vespa

[ Time: 0.0786s ][ Queries: 7 (0.0545s) ][ Debug on ][ 211 ][ Thing One ]