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Vespa ET2 50cc
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Vespa ET2 50cc
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Hi everyone.

Long story short - my mate gave me a Vespa ET2 50cc. His mate gave it to him as there's was something wrong with it. He decided he didn't have the time, so gave it to me.

I know nothing about scooters or 2-strokes. I'm pretty handy with the tools working on cars though.

So, when I got it I managed to get it started, but it wouldn't rev cleanly. Then it stopped dead very abruptly. And wouldn't kick over any more.

I've pulled the drive cover and there is definitely a spot where it jams tight. Using a socket, I can turn it over but it get stuck hard at the same spot every time. I can then turn the engine backwards slightly and it will then get past the binding spot but it's still super tight. The rest of the revolution is nice and smooth.

I've pulled the plug which makes no difference in how it turns over.

It's been pulled apart before as some of the screws for the plastics are missing etc. There's some silastic on the rubber adaptor between the carb and engine, which was hiding some cracks, so I'll get a new one of them when I get around to ordering parts.

I figure I'm at the point of no return as I'm about to pull the head and barrel to see what it looks like as I have no idea what to do next.

Any help appreciated. Always enjoy learning new things.

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Vespa ET2 50cc
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I initially thought I needed to remove the whole engine and swingarm, but it looks like I can pull the head with the engine in place.






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Ok, head and barrel off. Engine still doesn't like turning over. It seems the bearing between the rod and the crank is seizing.

Is this now an engine out job?




Hooked
ET 50 GTI250 ET150 Pearl White ET 150 Colbalt Blue
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I feel sorry for you. It is a problem when you have no oil the oil pump belt may have broke you should have tried mixing some two stroke oil in the gas and it may have firerd Good luck just a guess on my part. and I know nothing.

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Ouch! If the connecting rod and big end bearing aren't spinning freely it's toast. Yes full open up job. You'll want to replace bearings and seals while you're in there.

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Vespa ET2 50cc
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Yeah, lack of oil is likely a contributor. What mix ratio do they need?

Does anyone have a link to a pdf repair manual? I'm working blind so far.

Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 01 ET2, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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https://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Vespa/ET2/

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Vespa ET2 50cc
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Thanks. I'll have a look through that when I'm not on my phone.

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Uglybob wrote:
Yeah, lack of oil is likely a contributor. What mix ratio do they need?

Does anyone have a link to a pdf repair manual? I'm working blind so far.
You don't have to mix in an et2. The oil is pumped from the oil reservoir. There is a belt to run the pump

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lozjm wrote:
You don't have to mix in an et2. The oil is pumped from the oil reservoir. There is a belt to run the pump
Yes it has an oil pump, so generally you wouldn't need to mix but in this case the engine bearings seem to have seized and I know the oil tank was full of some nice oil. So I'm happy to ignore the oiling system and just pre-mix the fuel until I can get everything sorted.

1:40 or better seems to be the go based on this post:


https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic172565

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Well, engine is out. Now it can sit on my workbench until I finish my last project. Then I'll have some room to pull it all apart.




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Uglybob wrote:
Yes it has an oil pump, so generally you wouldn't need to mix but in this case the engine bearings seem to have seized and I know the oil tank was full of some nice oil. So I'm happy to ignore the oiling system and just pre-mix the fuel until I can get everything sorted.

1:40 or better seems to be the go based on this post:


https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic172565
Sorry Bob. I misunderstood.
⬆️    About 6w elapsed between posts    ⬇️

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Vespa ET2 50cc
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I removed the drive pulleys, flywheel, stator, oil pump and starter motor on the weekend.

Tonight I'll try split the casing. I don't have the special tools, so I'll make do with some scrap steel and a heat gun. I bought an IR thermometer yesterday to give some level of accuracy on heading up the casing.

What could possibly go wrong?

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Posts: 8884
Location: Atlanta, GA
Good luck! Unfortunately this isn't a terribly uncommon exercise on vintage bikes ("sat 30 years", yadda yadda) so have courage - the et2 has a simple and sturdy motor, so if the casings aren't trash and you can get the bearings needed you should be able to get it done

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Vespa ET2 50cc
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Thanks. I'm not expecting anything too drastic but things can always go sideways if you stuff it up enough.
Once it's apart I'll be able to order what I need to get it going again.

Can anyone recommend who to get parts from? I'm in Australia but I'm aware sourcing from overseas may be required.
I'll need a full rebuild set, so crank, piston, bearings, seal, intake manifold etc. There's probably more so I'll have to try sort out a complete list of what I'll need.

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Molto Verboso
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Before going any further... I would be tempted to call up some local Vespa shops, and see if they have any ET4 150cc parts bikes lying around... if you're gonna take apart, rebuild, and reinstall a motor... might be worth just swapping in the 150 parts, get yourself a seriously sweet power upgrade.

This guy says it took him 3 hours:


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Over here I can drive a 50cc on a car license. If I start going for stuff like that I need a motorbike license.

I'm not after anything fast. I just want something cheap to take to the shops etc.

I have cars for if I want a speed hit (which already take up too much time and money )

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Ok, the support from my tranny jack looks the right size. And I've found some bolts that should work. Here goes nothing.




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Well, that was easy. Heat it up to 90 and it came off with minimal effort.




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I'm going to say this thing has been opened before. There is residue on the surfaces and maybe a very thin layer of sealant. The main bearings spin pretty free, but there's side play in them. The crank to rod bearing is tight and not moving at all.




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There is noticeable wear on the drive side splines. If the splines are worn, it's a good guess the teeth on the cogs are worn also yes? Do I need to replace these?




Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 01 ET2, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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For good measure I'd replace the pulley half and back plate. Don't want those ruining the crank.

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Thanks. I figures they'd need replacing.

I had no idea what they were called, so now I know what I'm searching for.

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Uglybob wrote:
There is noticeable wear on the drive side splines. If the splines are worn, it's a good guess the teeth on the cogs are worn also yes? Do I need to replace these?
Mine looked the same (7500km) and I think they're shaped like that from new.

Here's a pic from a UK retailer's site. Is this the wear you're referring to? If so, nothing to worry about.

If you look at where those areas are: to the rear, there's a washer (in front of the oil pump belt cog thingy); and on the much larger flat spot, your variator bush (drive face boss). Guess they're machined that way to accommodate those items.

A bit of fine sandpaper on the variator surfaces (to get rid of rubber deposits and shiny/polished bits), and a good polish inside of the variator basket (for smooth movement of the rollers).

Saves you a few AUD. 👍




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I did notice that when I was looking last night. I may throw those $$$ saved at a 70cc kit instead.

Hooked
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Uglybob wrote:
I did notice that when I was looking last night. I may throw those $$$ saved at a 70cc kit instead.
Well worth it. Makes it a lot more usable in modern traffic.

If you do, save yourself a lot of grief/money and stick with the Weber 12mm carb. The PHVA 17.5 is a PITA to set up. 🙈

Your stock exhaust will be fine with a 70cc cast iron kit (as long as it's de-resricted). But you can do better.

Now, obviously that makes your machine a motorcycle, as opposed to ped. Your license may/may not allow it. 🙃

There are higher tuned 50cc kits that you can get, but they involve a bit of work to get the power/usability of the 70cc.

Easy to get sucked in (I'm certainly guilty).

Moderibbit
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Moderibbit
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OscarSass wrote:
If you do, save yourself a lot of grief/money and stick with the Weber 12mm carb. The PHVA 17.5 is a PITA to set up. 🙈


+1 from experience

Also agree, your splines are fine

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xantufrog wrote:
+1 from experience

Also agree, your splines are fine
Haha - I saw your thread… thought, maybe an could do a Fabio, but no.

Guess I'm just a mere mortal. 🤣

Moderibbit
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OscarSass wrote:
Haha - I saw your thread… thought, maybe an could do a Fabio, but no.

Guess I'm just a mere mortal. 🤣
A lot of people do it but I really don't think it's worth it unless going for a more aggressive kit and pipe and going all out. The thing to keep in mind is the point of the bigger carb is to increase overall volume of pass-through. If the carb can feed enough air per rev for the build then throwing a bigger carb on gets you absolutely nothing.

I was happier in the end just putting the 12 back on and tuning the carb! Coulda saved a bunch of headache and just spent more time enjoying it (I think I played with 3 cylinder kits, two pipes, and the two carbs, along with variator tweaks, before I wound up de-tuning it a bit and remembering that I wasn't building a drag bike )

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xantufrog wrote:
A lot of people do it but I really don't think it's worth it unless going for a more aggressive kit and pipe and going all out. The thing to keep in mind is the point of the bigger carb is to increase overall volume of pass-through. If the carb can feed enough air per rev for the build then throwing a bigger carb on gets you absolutely nothing.

I was happier in the end just putting the 12 back on and tuning the carb! Coulda saved a bunch of headache and just spent more time enjoying it (I think I played with 3 cylinder kits, two pipes, and the two carbs, along with variator tweaks, before I wound up de-tuning it a bit and remembering that I wasn't building a drag bike )
I can ride anything I want with my motorcycle licence… but I love this thing.

I won't do this (unless I have a mid-life crisis?), but there's something very appealing about a tiny scoot, with a tiny cylinder revving up to 12k rpm… letting rip everywhere it goes.

The revs, the smell, and the sound (papappapappapapapapap). 💨💨Cracking.

A Malossi RC One ET2 would be SO wrong but absolutely fabulous at the same time. 😇

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Oh yeah, small bikes going fast(ish) can be a lot more fun than big bikes going the same speed!

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Following along as I was given a seized 2001 ET2. Wasn't too bad buying go faster parts but I splurged for the 70cc Malossi, multivar kit for just under $300. Decided to keep going down the rabbit hole and ordered the Wild Lion exhaust and 19mm carb.

Not necessary to do the deep dive but I also heard how positive just the simple 70cc top end swap is.

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MJRally wrote:
Following along as I was given a seized 2001 ET2. Wasn't too bad buying go faster parts but I splurged for the 70cc Malossi, multivar kit for just under $300. Decided to keep going down the rabbit hole and ordered the Wild Lion exhaust and 19mm carb.

Not necessary to do the deep dive but I also heard how positive just the simple 70cc top end swap is.
How does the Wild Lion exhaust (AKA Gianelli Go) perform on the kit compared to a stock derestricted exhaust?

Keen on something to aid the Malossi 70cc kit without being shouty (in looks, or sound).

Ossessionato
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OscarSass wrote:
How does the Wild Lion exhaust (AKA Gianelli Go) perform on the kit compared to a stock derestricted exhaust?

Keen on something to aid the Malossi 70cc kit without being shouty (in looks, or sound).
No idea. Haven't installed yet. Busy with work and the family. Hopefully will have time to play with it in the next few weeks.

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I was talking to a mate at work about it. He has a motorbike, but was contemplating grabbing a cheap scooter a mate offered him as you can fit the shopping under the seat and a carton of beer between your feet. Much less hassle than the full size bike too for a 1km trip to the shops.

I'll be keeping the stock exhaust (delimited already) as I don't really want to bring attention by making the bike look modified. If it hits 60km/h then that's plenty for what I need.

I just checked and my ET2 doesn't have a fuel tap. Since it doesn't have one from factory I'm guessing it doesn't really need one then?

Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 01 ET2, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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Ossessionato
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Uglybob wrote:
I was talking to a mate at work about it. He has a motorbike, but was contemplating grabbing a cheap scooter a mate offered him as you can fit the shopping under the seat and a carton of beer between your feet. Much less hassle than the full size bike too for a 1km trip to the shops.

I'll be keeping the stock exhaust (delimited already) as I don't really want to bring attention by making the bike look modified. If it hits 60km/h then that's plenty for what I need.

I just checked and my ET2 doesn't have a fuel tap. Since it doesn't have one from factory I'm guessing it doesn't really need one then?
Should have a vacuum operated fuel tap on the right side over the exhaust. You'll see the hoses curve around to the left side of the scoot with one going to the carb and the other running to the intake manifold.

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The Malossi 70cc kit included this little gem:

**When installing a 70cc kit it is necessary to increase the jet size in the carburetor. Failure to do so may cause engine damage.

I know every case is different, but if I'm going with just a 70cc kit and everything stock, what jet should I be aiming for. I'm also removing the oiling system and going to premix. Will this affect the jet sizing?

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MJRally wrote:
Should have a vacuum operated fuel tap on the right side over the exhaust. You'll see the hoses curve around to the left side of the scoot with one going to the carb and the other running to the intake manifold.
Ahh, yep I saw that bit with the two hoses coming off it. I didn't realise that was it. Too simple.

Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 01 ET2, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
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Location: Oceanside, CA
 
Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 01 ET2, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
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Uglybob wrote:
Ahh, yep I saw that bit with the two hoses coming off it. I didn't realise that was it. Too simple.
Always makes me chuckle the fuel tap is over the exhaust. Nothing like a heat source and gas

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OK, so this 70cc kit is half the price of the Malossi kit and it has an aluminum barrel. A quick google doesn't bring up anything bad about the Airsal brand, but it sill raises a flag in my head. I'm assuming the liner would still be steel, otherwise it'd wear pretty quick. Any feedback?


https://www.maxiscoot.com/en/product/airsal-cylinder-kit-sport-70cc-aluminum-piaggio-typhoon-stalker-28346?vctype_id=13
   

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