Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:39 am

Hooked
Yellow GTS 300 Super, Black GTS 300 Super Sport, Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 163
Location: London
 
Hooked
Yellow GTS 300 Super, Black GTS 300 Super Sport, Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 163
Location: London
Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:39 am linkquote
Picked up a new to me Vespa 50 Special today.

Been sitting a decade or so. Seals, a DR 85 kit and probably some tubeless rims are the plan along with a body tidy up and single seat for it.


My new toy.

Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:50 am

Not So Moderator
VNB vsc o9c VMA vbc VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6036
Location: Hustletown, TX
 
Not So Moderator
VNB vsc o9c VMA vbc VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6036
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:50 am linkquote
Right on! Will make a great project.
More pics please!!
Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:02 am

Hooked
Yellow GTS 300 Super, Black GTS 300 Super Sport, Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 163
Location: London
 
Hooked
Yellow GTS 300 Super, Black GTS 300 Super Sport, Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 163
Location: London
Sat Apr 23, 2022 8:02 am linkquote
Here are some more photos. It's a uk delivered bike, it's frame and engine no's are quite different, the frame is probably from 1981 but wasn't registered here in the UK til 1983.


A few bits of rust under the paint in a few spots.

It missing things like the rubber and plastic buffers that go around the side panel which is why probably the original one looks like it fell off. The floor rails are screwed on rather than riveted.

I couldn't work out what was wrong with the look of the front end until I realised they had the wheel on backwards.

Clutch is sloppy so new corks, I have a sebac rear shock from my et3 goody bag so will probably install that.


It's certainly a smallframe.


Wheel on wrong way round


It's got an ET3 style rear light on it. Not sure if original.


A few rust spots. The paint polishes up well so will see if I can get away with treating the spots and blending new paint.

Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:50 am

Hooked
Yellow GTS 300 Super, Black GTS 300 Super Sport, Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 163
Location: London
 
Hooked
Yellow GTS 300 Super, Black GTS 300 Super Sport, Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 163
Location: London
Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:50 am linkquote
Some more photos.

I think it may have been painted before perhaps some sort of respray. The chassis number had been painted over and much of the hardware on this bike is a bit off. Self tapping and wood screws holding on the trim on, pop rivets and screws holding on floor rails and weird square nuts on the headset and the pivot bolt.


Old school nut on the pivot bolt


Chassis number painted over


The seat buttons don't do anything for me. Will get one of the single seats for it.

Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:57 am

Molto Verboso
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '66 Allstate SF, '65 VBB, '66 180SS
Joined: 27 Mar 2013
Posts: 1288
Location: S.Salem, NY
 
Molto Verboso
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '66 Allstate SF, '65 VBB, '66 180SS
Joined: 27 Mar 2013
Posts: 1288
Location: S.Salem, NY
Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:57 am linkquote
Nice. I imagine those center rails were originally screwed as there isn't any way to get to the other side of a rivet.
Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:20 pm

Member
Faro basso 53, Motovespa 58, V50 71
Joined: 02 Feb 2022
Posts: 40
Location: Netherlands
 
Member
Faro basso 53, Motovespa 58, V50 71
Joined: 02 Feb 2022
Posts: 40
Location: Netherlands
Sun Apr 24, 2022 10:20 pm linkquote
correct, centre ones were screwed side ones rivited. Looks like a very tidy small frame, congrats!
Mon Apr 25, 2022 6:20 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5884
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5884
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Apr 25, 2022 6:20 am linkquote
that pivot bolt looks too small in diameter
Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:27 am

Hooked
Yellow GTS 300 Super, Black GTS 300 Super Sport, Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 163
Location: London
 
Hooked
Yellow GTS 300 Super, Black GTS 300 Super Sport, Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 163
Location: London
Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:27 am linkquote
Will be replacing a lot of hardware I think. The flywheel cowl looks like it is for a PK as it has a hump on it and the plastic shroud is for a 100 cc. Will be interesting to see what other surprises are there. The carb is a 16.10 when I thought it should have a 16.12 on it.

With the DR 85 kit will probably get a 16.16 or 19.19 for it.
Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:00 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5884
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5884
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:00 pm linkquote
it might just be that the square nut makes it look small. once you have the nut off you'll see if it's the right bolt or not.
Thu May 12, 2022 3:14 pm

Hooked
Yellow GTS 300 Super, Black GTS 300 Super Sport, Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 163
Location: London
 
Hooked
Yellow GTS 300 Super, Black GTS 300 Super Sport, Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 163
Location: London
Thu May 12, 2022 3:14 pm linkquote
A bit of an update of photos and plans:

Have pulled engine out of frame and split cases, it looks fairly clean as far as wear goes. Only scoring I can see is on the piston where it looks like there were rough edges on the exhaust port. Its got a small score on the pad too.

I have now got a plan for the project. I want to use it as a commuter bike here in London where I can only go 30 MPH max and most of the time 20MPH. My GTS300 gets to that speed pretty quick but then gets passed by 50 cc machines on my commute.

So plan is as follows (following SIP kit table):

DR 85 kit
19/19 Carb & manifold
2.88 ratio primary kit (SIP says 25/72 but I can see one with that combination)
Sito exhaust and manifold
12V stator (so I can see with the headlights on and run indicators)


scoring on piston from exhaust port


pad closeup


engine looks fairly clean


I assume this is grease

Fri May 13, 2022 2:13 am

Hooked
PK50XL, PK100S, ET3
Joined: 26 Aug 2020
Posts: 240
Location: UK
 
Hooked
PK50XL, PK100S, ET3
Joined: 26 Aug 2020
Posts: 240
Location: UK
Fri May 13, 2022 2:13 am linkquote
Will a DR85 pull that gearing? thats pretty much V90 gearing but you have the 43mm stroke crank so will have a lot less torque than a V90.
Fri May 13, 2022 3:21 am

Molto Verboso
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '66 Allstate SF, '65 VBB, '66 180SS
Joined: 27 Mar 2013
Posts: 1288
Location: S.Salem, NY
 
Molto Verboso
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '66 Allstate SF, '65 VBB, '66 180SS
Joined: 27 Mar 2013
Posts: 1288
Location: S.Salem, NY
Fri May 13, 2022 3:21 am linkquote
Interesting wear marks on 2nd gear...
Other than maybe some assembly lube, there is no grease in the box. That looks like dirty clutch swarf and oil that was left in too long to me.
Fri May 13, 2022 3:43 am

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11133
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11133
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Fri May 13, 2022 3:43 am linkquote
well... seeing that pad. it may be time for a reed...

it appears to have been resprayed, but I'd leave it as it looks tidy. suss out the rust situ and that engine mount nut. seeing that give it a through once over on safety for sure.

I know you said you're going to be commuting, and it's low speed. but with that whole situation. I'd go malossi barrel inducted reed, full circle crank, malossi reed intake kit and throw a 19~24 CP carb at it. then rock it out to V90 or 100 sport gearing (or the pinasco/polini low set) with a multi spring set up for easy-peasy shifting.

I'd bet you can pick up 80% of that used in good nick for dimes over dollars.

you're already there, so splash the pot for a short 4th tree and check the cross.

this set up should perform wonderfully for that type of riding but also, give you the legs if you want to run about elsewhere.
Fri May 13, 2022 7:20 am

Hooked
Yellow GTS 300 Super, Black GTS 300 Super Sport, Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 163
Location: London
 
Hooked
Yellow GTS 300 Super, Black GTS 300 Super Sport, Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 163
Location: London
Fri May 13, 2022 7:20 am linkquote
Thanks again Greasy

Going the whole hog:
This project is more of me learning to put on a new top end on and ride it attempt rather than a higher performing version. Given the blunders I am likely to make the low end of the market is where I want to play right now until I learn more. Sort of smallframe tuning for a dummy. I doubt I will ever get out of 3rd gear so trying to spend less on this bike and have other scoots for other types of rides.

I may export it back to Aus at some stage and I need to be able to revert to the original setup to get it in under the historic vehicle rules. Once there I would go the whole hog and tidy up more of the bottom end too..

Pad:
Given I'm going to be a cheapskate on it can I get away with epoxy on the rotary? It was running quite smoothly until I pulled it apart.

Paint:
The paint that doesn't have rust underneath it polishes up well so will get the paint matched and probably respray the floor area after I have got rid of rust.

Gear Ratio:
As you can tell this is new to me. I was going by the SIP Smallframe tuning page listed here: https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic179700 which was for a standard 43 mm crank which may have some typos. On the specific DR 85 kit page they say min 3.75 and max of 3 so Matchlessman you are probably right.
Sun May 15, 2022 5:06 pm

Ossessionato
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 3395
Location: pacifica,ca.
 
Ossessionato
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 3395
Location: pacifica,ca.
Sun May 15, 2022 5:06 pm linkquote
very nice find.
Tue May 17, 2022 4:26 am

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11133
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11133
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Tue May 17, 2022 4:26 am linkquote
Rallygeek wrote:
Thanks again Greasy

Going the whole hog:
This project is more of me learning to put on a new top end on and ride it attempt rather than a higher performing version. Given the blunders I am likely to make the low end of the market is where I want to play right now until I learn more. Sort of smallframe tuning for a dummy. I doubt I will ever get out of 3rd gear so trying to spend less on this bike and have other scoots for other types of rides.

I may export it back to Aus at some stage and I need to be able to revert to the original setup to get it in under the historic vehicle rules. Once there I would go the whole hog and tidy up more of the bottom end too..

Pad:
Given I'm going to be a cheapskate on it can I get away with epoxy on the rotary? It was running quite smoothly until I pulled it apart.

Paint:
The paint that doesn't have rust underneath it polishes up well so will get the paint matched and probably respray the floor area after I have got rid of rust.

Gear Ratio:
As you can tell this is new to me. I was going by the SIP Smallframe tuning page listed here: https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic179700 which was for a standard 43 mm crank which may have some typos. On the specific DR 85 kit page they say min 3.75 and max of 3 so Matchlessman you are probably right.
How do you feel about cracking the case and doing things and stuffs?

(Bearings, seals, etx)

Like are you: hard pass or I'm Marty and here to party.

The situ that you're in, it's not an ass tonne of extra dough and you could probably source most of it 2nd hand for chips.

Or just go whole hog and blast it man. That good money spends well the first time.

Always time to do it twice, never time to do it nice.

on that pad. mannnn... that's rough and tumble. JB or devcon might roll for a hot minute but if that chonks out it'll eat up everybody. so that's a gambler's crux bro.

I *know* you don't want to hear this... but I'd go reed.

case inducted isn't a bajillion dollars and you can get all jiggy with a Dremel. or drop some dimes and get a barrel inducted setup.
Tue May 17, 2022 3:43 pm

Hooked
Yellow GTS 300 Super, Black GTS 300 Super Sport, Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 163
Location: London
 
Hooked
Yellow GTS 300 Super, Black GTS 300 Super Sport, Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 163
Location: London
Tue May 17, 2022 3:43 pm linkquote
greasy125 wrote:
How do you feel about cracking the case and doing things and stuffs?

(Bearings, seals, etx)

Like are you: hard pass or I'm Marty and here to party.

The situ that you're in, it's not an ass tonne of extra dough and you could probably source most of it 2nd hand for chips.

Or just go whole hog and blast it man. That good money spends well the first time.

Always time to do it twice, never time to do it nice.

on that pad. mannnn... that's rough and tumble. JB or devcon might roll for a hot minute but if that chonks out it'll eat up everybody. so that's a gambler's crux bro.

I *know* you don't want to hear this... but I'd go reed.

case inducted isn't a bajillion dollars and you can get all jiggy with a Dremel. or drop some dimes and get a barrel inducted setup.
Greasy

I am happy cracking cases, bearings and seals etc are on the list. I am most of the way through pulling the bearings out right now.

Just got a driveshaft stuck in its bearing that won't free, after that the old bearings will all be out. Will do the seals and new bearings, shift cross etc. going to use a nu204 fly bearing as didn't like having to heat and tap the 6204 bearings to get it out. am planning on changing the primary too.

I have learnt to dismantle this smallframe engine from doing my et3 in Australia earlier in the year. That engine was really worn inside but cases were ok and this 50 special is the opposite with most parts looking good in comparison but the pad being poor on this one.

Getting into a different way of delivery of fuel is getting close to outside my comfort zone. I don't have any experience in the carb and reed/Dremel world.

The other issue I have is that I would need the be able to revert to its former 50cc setup if I wanted to export to Australia as an older vehicle. Changes to the engine such as a reed valve is a significant irreversible change to drivetrain which would mean I couldn't export it.
Tue May 17, 2022 4:29 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11133
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11133
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Tue May 17, 2022 4:29 pm linkquote
Rallygeek wrote:
Greasy

I am happy cracking cases, bearings and seals etc are on the list. I am most of the way through pulling the bearings out right now.

Just got a driveshaft stuck in its bearing that won't free, after that the old bearings will all be out. Will do the seals and new bearings, shift cross etc. going to use a nu204 fly bearing as didn't like having to heat and tap the 6204 bearings to get it out. am planning on changing the primary too.

I have learnt to dismantle this smallframe engine from doing my et3 in Australia earlier in the year. That engine was really worn inside but cases were ok and this 50 special is the opposite with most parts looking good in comparison but the pad being poor on this one.

Getting into a different way of delivery of fuel is getting close to outside my comfort zone. I don't have any experience in the carb and reed/Dremel world.

The other issue I have is that I would need the be able to revert to its former 50cc setup if I wanted to export to Australia as an older vehicle. Changes to the engine such as a reed valve is a significant irreversible change to drivetrain which would mean I couldn't export it.
ah! it'd slipped my mind.

while this is a little bit of reversion... malossi 133 with the barrel inducted reed.you get a kit with a head then scoop up the intake and grab a carb. nobody would EVER know the difference. it's all under the panel work. throw a banana at it and everything looks bone stock.
Sun May 22, 2022 1:48 pm

Hooked
Yellow GTS 300 Super, Black GTS 300 Super Sport, Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 163
Location: London
 
Hooked
Yellow GTS 300 Super, Black GTS 300 Super Sport, Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
Joined: 14 Aug 2020
Posts: 163
Location: London
Sun May 22, 2022 1:48 pm linkquote
Hmm still thinking about it greasy.

The bike is now all pulled apart and I have degreased and cleaned the parts and body.

I think all the crud that's on the clutch was actually muck coming in via the breather. The petrol tank and carb were really leaky which covered the engine in crud.

The bike was definitely resprayed, unhelpfully they really only prepped the outer panels. The rear wheel arch has lots of surface rust under the paint and the under seat area paint all fell off to reveal the original grey undercoat and surface rust.

If the prep wasn't very good on most of the bike is there any point trying to keep the paint on the front of the legshield and rear tub?


The rear wheel arch. It looks like they sprayed over dirt they hadn't cleaned off.


Under the tank. Before I degreased this was red.

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