Sat, 30 Apr 2022 15:23:15 +0000

Ossessionato
Joined: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:06:15 +0000
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Location: Santa Margarita,Ca.
 
Ossessionato
Joined: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:06:15 +0000
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Location: Santa Margarita,Ca.
Sat, 30 Apr 2022 15:23:15 +0000 quote
And you can do a fair amount of working on the engine with out removing it completely.





Sat, 30 Apr 2022 19:34:41 +0000

The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: Mon, 06 May 2019 08:34:14 +0000
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Location: PNW from LBC
 
The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
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Sat, 30 Apr 2022 19:34:41 +0000 quote
Thoughts on the disk brake option: what about a Crimaz setup, disk & master cylinder. Both bolt on with out modification, and the MC tucks nicely away under the headset-without needing a plate welded on; and with the disk kit there is no need for a full on fork swap.

I honestly offer this suggestion, because you've got a bit of a rare find there - a Blue Badge smallframe. So it would be a bit of a shame to make too many permanent mods. Now - I'm NOT shy of doing some cuttn n weldin n modding, just offering another option; that could be easier & less expensive.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/brake-master-cylinder-crimaz-mounting-at-handlebar-lower-part-20_56375600

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/disc-brake-crimaz-20-rdp-front_30023000
OP
Sat, 30 Apr 2022 21:39:37 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
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Sat, 30 Apr 2022 21:39:37 +0000 quote
I'm totally down for that plan, GL. I was already looking at the Crimaz disc on SIP, but somehow missed the master cylinder. That's exactly what I want to do, I just didn't think it was an option.

In the meantime, I improvised a gas tank and rode it briefly around my 'hood. I look pretty ridiculous on it, but that's part of the fun in a way.

Sat, 30 Apr 2022 21:56:26 +0000

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: Sun, 02 Aug 2015 18:39:51 +0000
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Location: Veria, Greece
Sat, 30 Apr 2022 21:56:26 +0000 quote
Lookin' GOOD!!!

Just a suggestion, if you want to save money on the disc brake and spend it on other parts. You're damn good with fabrication so I don't think you can't do it. His older design used a Piaggio Typhoon master cylinder which is way cheaper...

Older Crimaz BMC...
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/brake-master-cylinder-crimaz-mounting-at-handlebar-lower-part_56375000

Typhoon BMC (OEM code: 271019)
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/brake-master-cylinder-grimeca-front_17620300
Sat, 30 Apr 2022 21:58:36 +0000

Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
Joined: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 05:05:38 +0000
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Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Sat, 30 Apr 2022 21:58:36 +0000 quote
What a great bike!

It even has the super rate taillight, but is missing the bracket you can still find NOS.
OP
Sat, 30 Apr 2022 22:30:37 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
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Sat, 30 Apr 2022 22:30:37 +0000 quote
SaFiS wrote:
Lookin' GOOD!!!

Just a suggestion, if you want to save money on the disc brake and spend it on other parts. You're damn good with fabrication so I don't think you can't do it. His older design used a Piaggio Typhoon master cylinder which is way cheaper...

Older Crimaz BMC...
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/brake-master-cylinder-crimaz-mounting-at-handlebar-lower-part_56375000

Typhoon BMC (OEM code: 271019)
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/brake-master-cylinder-grimeca-front_17620300
So all I'd really need to fabricate would be the linkage from the MC to the lever? That shouldn't be hard at all. I'm diggin' it!
Sat, 30 Apr 2022 22:47:55 +0000

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: Sun, 02 Aug 2015 18:39:51 +0000
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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Location: Veria, Greece
Sat, 30 Apr 2022 22:47:55 +0000 quote
chandlerman wrote:
So all I'd really need to fabricate would be the linkage from the MC to the lever? That shouldn't be hard at all. I'm diggin' it!
Only the bracket to mount the BMC and reservoir. For the linkage it's super easy. Rond end joints. I think he uses M5 or M6…



Sun, 01 May 2022 08:24:40 +0000

The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: Mon, 06 May 2019 08:34:14 +0000
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The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: Mon, 06 May 2019 08:34:14 +0000
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Location: PNW from LBC
Sun, 01 May 2022 08:24:40 +0000 quote
SaFiS wrote:
Lookin' GOOD!!!

Just a suggestion, if you want to save money on the disc brake and spend it on other parts. You're damn good with fabrication so I don't think you can't do it. His older design used a Piaggio Typhoon master cylinder which is way cheaper...

Older Crimaz BMC...
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/brake-master-cylinder-crimaz-mounting-at-handlebar-lower-part_56375000

Typhoon BMC (OEM code: 271019)
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/brake-master-cylinder-grimeca-front_17620300
Good thinking. I have not doubt Chandlerman can knock out an MC like this. Good savings, and you can customize it to your liking.
Mon, 02 May 2022 00:59:19 +0000

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Ossessionato
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Mon, 02 May 2022 00:59:19 +0000 quote
What about a VMC 5 speed?
⬆️    About 14w elapsed between posts    ⬇️
OP
Sat, 06 Aug 2022 02:18:33 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 02:18:33 +0000 quote
okay...it's time to get this show on the road.

I've been not so much putting this off as just tired & busing. I've been thinking I wanted to build the motor with an egig 170 for the top end, but it seems like there's not a single one available anywhere on the planet right now and they're "In arrival" it SIP for this past May, so I'm losing faith.

So I'm soliciting input from the crowd on a next-in-line top end option. I want to a direct intake with reeds, and this is going to be a pretty hot build. I'm not talking BFA288 hot, but I'm looking at options like a FALC 153 or M1L60 top end and 54mm full circle crank. I might even spoil myself with a pipedesign exhaust to really blow things up.

The only real restrictionion I'm putting on myself is that I want to re-use the existing cases rather than buy new ones.

Obviously, I'll be upgrading the clutch, but what else am I missing that I might need to know?

I know someone listed off the factory tools I should go ahead and order to get the show started. I'll dig that up shortly unless someone is feeling charitable and wants to list them here.





Last edited by chandlerman on Sat, 06 Aug 2022 12:40:10 +0000; edited 1 time
Sat, 06 Aug 2022 03:02:37 +0000

Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: Sun, 23 Aug 2020 21:02:46 +0000
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Location: Philadelphia
 
Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 03:02:37 +0000 quote
This should be exciting to watch happen.

Let's do this!
Sat, 06 Aug 2022 06:49:51 +0000

Addicted
Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, Stock 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 10:57:28 +0000

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 12:30:48 +0000

Not So Moderator
VNB VSC o9c VMA vbc vmb VSX
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Not So Moderator
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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 12:30:48 +0000 quote
Man that egig gear is such a tease.

Mark has been waiting on that stuff as well for the v90 we snagged outta New Mexico. You gotta wonder if it's ever gonna get stocked at this point…

Falc gear would make a sweet build for sure!
Sat, 06 Aug 2022 12:55:27 +0000

Hooked
'66 Sears Cruisaire Smallframe
Joined: Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:47:37 +0000
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Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
'66 Sears Cruisaire Smallframe
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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 12:55:27 +0000 quote
Nice! I've been waiting for this one to come back up.
Sat, 06 Aug 2022 15:15:17 +0000

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 15:15:17 +0000 quote
Birdsnest wrote:
Man that egig gear is such a tease.

Mark has been waiting on that stuff as well for the v90 we snagged outta New Mexico. You gotta wonder if it's ever gonna get stocked at this point…

Falc gear would make a sweet build for sure!
Makes you wonder if someone did an initial run of 20-50 units sold out and that's what were seeing. Also could be every small frame tuning junkie on the continent is buying more cubic centimeters and he's just sold out?
Sat, 06 Aug 2022 17:03:19 +0000

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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bodgemaster
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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 17:31:50 +0000

Addicted
Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, Stock 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
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Addicted
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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 17:31:50 +0000 quote
If you could go with rotary or case reeds, I'd very much like to see a VMC ET7 in action. It looks like a pretty sweet cylinder from performance-for-dollar angle.
OP
Sat, 06 Aug 2022 17:57:53 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 17:57:53 +0000 quote
Okay...so this is a perfect example of what I'm trying to figure out. I'm thinking the M1L-60 for direct intake, but what (if anything) would I need to machine on the case to make it work?

Is it just shaving off the inside of the crankcase to fit a longer crank? Is that required for a 54mm crank in any case?

Or does it just require a crank with a longer rod?

I had wanted to start with the egig both for the cost (so I can spend it on other parts, like a front disc and suspension) and its alleged reliability, but I'm sick of waiting, so I'm going all in instead.

Looking at the various options, one thing that I'm still unclear on is what' are the various case modifications that need to be made at what levels of tuning. Obviously, at the high end it's all custom/purpose-built and -matched cases for the cylinder, or a TON of machining. I'm not looking to take it that far, though any machining I could make jigs for and do myself, I'm totally down for.

These are the sorts of questions I'm wrestling with right now. And let's not even get started on exhausts yet...
OP
Sat, 06 Aug 2022 17:58:41 +0000

Lucky
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Lucky
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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 17:58:41 +0000 quote
The Euro is currently so weak against the dollar I might as well buy new. Good timing for buying expensive go-fast parts, though.
OP
Sat, 06 Aug 2022 17:59:59 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 17:59:59 +0000 quote
Birdsnest wrote:
Man that egig gear is such a tease.

Mark has been waiting on that stuff as well for the v90 we snagged outta New Mexico. You gotta wonder if it's ever gonna get stocked at this point…

Falc gear would make a sweet build for sure!
Well, they definitely have orders, so the question is if they can't get their manufacturing quality under control or the cylinder doesn't actually work as-expected or has an extremely short operating life or something. Or maybe they're just out enjoying riding while the weather is nice.
Sat, 06 Aug 2022 18:40:51 +0000

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 18:40:51 +0000 quote
Quote:
I'm thinking the M1L-60 for direct intake, but what (if anything) would I need to machine on the case to make it work?
I could be wrong but I think you have to mill the case slightly to accept the 60mm cylinder. Something I'm sure Ned could handle for you when you pick up my gates.

The other Quattrini option, the M1B-56, I don't think requires case milling but alas, may not be quite as ferocious.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/racing-cylinder-quattrini-m1b-56-gtr-125-cc_15048200
Sat, 06 Aug 2022 18:59:47 +0000

parallelogramerist
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parallelogramerist
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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 18:59:47 +0000 quote
However crazy you decide to go with a cylinder, make sure to get a clutch and transmission that can handle it!
Sat, 06 Aug 2022 19:22:57 +0000

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 19:22:57 +0000 quote
According to one of the Italian websites the Quattrini M1-B60 "can be mounted on original casings" whereas the M1-L60 requires either the Quattrini cases or milling.

Needless to say, I'd verify before ordering.
OP
Sat, 06 Aug 2022 19:25:49 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 19:25:49 +0000 quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
According to one of the Italian websites the Quattrini M1-B60 "can be mounted on original casings" whereas the M1-L60 requires either the Quattrini cases or milling.

Needless to say, I'd verify before ordering.
This is exactly where I'm at right now. About time to go spend a little time brushing up on my German over at GSF, I think.

SIP's descriptions says the whole M1 line can be installed without milling the cases, but I'm not entirely convinced.
Sat, 06 Aug 2022 19:56:11 +0000

Addicted
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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 19:56:11 +0000 quote
I have BGM 54/105 crank and I had my cases machined out to 89mm diameter.


60mm Parmakit has a thick spacer under it so I got away with burring the crank mouth wider few mm deep to accomodate the cylinder skirt. Of course you have to get rid of the stock sealing surface to open up the transfers properly.
Sat, 06 Aug 2022 22:35:38 +0000

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Ossessionato
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Sat, 06 Aug 2022 22:35:38 +0000 quote
Quote:
I could be wrong but I think you have to mill the case slightly to accept the 60mm cylinder. Something I'm sure Ned could handle for you when you pick up my gates.
hahahahaha! you do know I am reading this thread right?

🙂
Sun, 07 Aug 2022 13:02:05 +0000

Not So Moderator
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Sun, 07 Aug 2022 13:02:05 +0000 quote
*chuckling*
OP
Sun, 07 Aug 2022 13:50:39 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
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Sun, 07 Aug 2022 13:50:39 +0000 quote
charlieman22 wrote:
hahahahaha! you do know I am reading this thread right?

🙂
Is that going to make it awkward if I ask you to machine my cases while I'm loading SoCal's new gates?
Sun, 07 Aug 2022 15:50:26 +0000

Molto Verboso
PX 200
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Molto Verboso
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Sun, 07 Aug 2022 15:50:26 +0000 quote
chandlerman wrote:
Well, they definitely have orders, so the question is if they can't get their manufacturing quality under control or the cylinder doesn't actually work as-expected or has an extremely short operating life or something. Or maybe they're just out enjoying riding while the weather is nice.
It's the summer holiday in Europe where everyone takes a whole month off!

The wait continues…
Sun, 07 Aug 2022 15:52:34 +0000

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Sun, 07 Aug 2022 15:52:34 +0000 quote
I sent a message to Egig on Facebook and stock of 170 kits is expected end of August.
Sun, 07 Aug 2022 15:52:35 +0000

Molto Verboso
PX 200
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Molto Verboso
PX 200
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Sun, 07 Aug 2022 15:52:35 +0000 quote
chandlerman wrote:
This is exactly where I'm at right now. About time to go spend a little time brushing up on my German over at GSF, I think.

SIP's descriptions says the whole M1 line can be installed without milling the cases, but I'm not entirely convinced.
Might be worth while buying SIP cases… then you can put a 3.50 tire on whilst you're at it!
OP
Sun, 07 Aug 2022 15:58:20 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
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Sun, 07 Aug 2022 15:58:20 +0000 quote
108 wrote:
It's the summer holiday in Europe where everyone takes a whole month off!
Not the whole summer, just August, usually.
108 wrote:
The wait continues…
Yeah. But SIP have been waiting since May.

And I'm tired of waiting.

Current line of thought is the M1L-60-S.

Looks like a a 54mm stroke and a 105 conn rod is what I want with that. Can I get away with a Mazzi Full Circle or is that asking for trouble?
Sun, 07 Aug 2022 16:18:07 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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Sun, 07 Aug 2022 16:18:07 +0000 quote
Yeah July/Aug time for a few weeks…

When I was in Italy, I was like "1 or 2weeks right? No?? 4 weeks holiday????"

You don't get that life in the UK.

Oh that crank looks tasty… besides milling, the quatrinni doesnt fit into all engines without "convincing" right?

Sticks out a bit so original covers don't fit?

Still doing homework on smallies…
Sun, 07 Aug 2022 17:04:29 +0000

Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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Sun, 07 Aug 2022 17:04:29 +0000 quote
I like the m1 option here for quality and proven performance.
They e been at it a while…
Lemme know when u get to the case part…
Sun, 07 Aug 2022 17:31:22 +0000

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:01:08 +0000
Posts: 6632
Location: So Cal
Sun, 07 Aug 2022 17:31:22 +0000 quote
charlieman22 wrote:
hahahahaha! you do know I am reading this thread right?

🙂
Oops, busted. Actually now that you know how to make them, maybe consider a side gig in the custom gate biz. Sweet margin!
OP
Sun, 07 Aug 2022 19:36:25 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7153
Location: Nashville
 
OP
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7153
Location: Nashville
Sun, 07 Aug 2022 19:36:25 +0000 quote
"Red Skateboard Fence and Gates" has a nice ring to it.
OP
Thu, 01 Sep 2022 01:06:36 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7153
Location: Nashville
 
OP
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7153
Location: Nashville
Thu, 01 Sep 2022 01:06:36 +0000 quote
It begins...I just fired off two very expensive orders, one to SIP and the other to ScooterCenter to get all the key parts for this build. I'm sure there will be at least another order or two, but nothing I can't get from a domestic supplier.

One upside is that the Euro is weak against the dollar right now, but it was still an eye watering amount of spend for a motor.

Quattrini M1L60S 144cc cylinder
M3-150S exhaust (have to use a matching exhaust)
Mazzi Full circle 54mm crank, 105mm conn rod
egig one-finger clutch
Bearings, seals, gaskets, o-rings cruciform, rubber bits, etc.
Tools
Clauss mounts

So that should all show up in the next week or so, assuming it doesn't decide to do some summer vacation backpacking through the UPS terminals of the former East Germany.

Then, teardown can begin and I can learn how much I can screw up a smallie motor.

Still need to order a carb and ignition, not to mention tires and wheels. I assume I'll wind up with another DC Vape Variable, but I pulled up short on that for the time being.

I also need to figure out the front disc sooner than later. And I'm kind've feeling like I might just start out running this thing as a rat rod with its exterior latex paint job and trailer brake light.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to need to cut the frame a little to fit the motor, as well as welding on the headset for the master cylinder plate. And knowing me, once I'm at that point, I'm not going to want to wait two more months to get the paint & bodywork knocked out.

Whatever I do, though, I'll be doing it *fast*!

Last edited by chandlerman on Thu, 01 Sep 2022 15:41:52 +0000; edited 1 time
Thu, 01 Sep 2022 03:32:51 +0000

Addicted
Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, Stock 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
Joined: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 06:30:20 +0000
Posts: 504
Location: Finland
 
Addicted
Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, Stock 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
Joined: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 06:30:20 +0000
Posts: 504
Location: Finland
Thu, 01 Sep 2022 03:32:51 +0000 quote
Sounds good!

Have you already welded the area on the cases around transfer ports?
OP
Thu, 01 Sep 2022 03:44:12 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7153
Location: Nashville
 
OP
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7153
Location: Nashville
Thu, 01 Sep 2022 03:44:12 +0000 quote
FINYoshi wrote:
Sounds good!

Have you already welded the area on the cases around transfer ports?
Not yet. Motor is still in the bike at the moment. Workshop will get cleaned up this weekend so I'll be ready to get started once tools arrive.
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