Modern Vespa

I agree, get that plate out of there, you're playing in the big leagues now if something like a chunk of that plate locks up your shiny new parts.

Okay...y'all convinced me...I can't afford Smallstate 3.0.

Lol… 3.0

I hope that doesnt happen anytime soon!

Oh, was wondering about the exhaust you're using, it's plain steel? Not coated in any heat coating?

Yeah, fingers crossed. Your scooter is the classic sleeper. Glad you got that order by the boss My Malossi case was shipped before I moved in with my fiancée. Good thing too, because the box itself is emblazoned with colorful Malossi tat like the best toy ever from the Sears catalogue. She has been much cooler than expected with parts in the house and goings on in the garage as long as I take her on the occasional ride.

Stupid Grade A+ Perfect SIP stator plate is going to require major Dremel work to even get the coil on it, much less to fit the cases.

Not surprised, but definitely a little irritated.[/i][/u]


Perfect fit, my ass

I can't blame you. For the price of some of this stuff, the engineering should be top notch and snap together like Legos. Is that asking too much? Apparently so.

It got worse. The damn thing is too small diameter by a couple millimeters AND didn't cover all the mounting bolts, so I just touched up my welds and put the Frankenplate back in it.

Advanced the timing a degree while I was at it, richened up the needle a clip and went to a 172 main. I can't find my rich idle jets, so it's still on the stock 55.

Now it's time to go for a ride, I think.

Quick ride report for posterity. The changes were all very positive.

Still revs out cleanly on the 172, so I'll go up to a 175 and see what that does.

Timing is good, I think, with the extra degree of advance. It's torquier now and has nice throttle response before it gets into the pipe.

The mid-range is also good. Just a little rich when it first comes onto the needle at 1/4 throttle, which is what I want per Jack. Second clip from the bottom was too rich for the old motor, but not any more. I'll probably leave it this way until I go to a different needle.

The only problem I have is that I keep discovering that I'm going a LOT faster than I should be. Like I realized I was doing 65 in a 35 as I went past the police station. Definitely the scooter equivalent of First World Problems, though.

I would have jumped on the highway, but decided not to since the motor is still practically new. I'll get another heat cycle and bump the main to 175 before I do that.

No way… the new plate is too small?

I think that demands a refund to be honest… it's not working on any levels…

If revving out clean, go up a lot more. I would put in a 190 next. Need to get to the splutter point quickly and work down.
Another jetting complication, for rpm this high, I would be running 4% for the break in period. This will temporarily need bigger jets.
Pilot jet was too small. Until there is a new pilot box set arriving, put the air screw at half a turn out. Check it slightly sputters when lifting from idle.
Avoiding the beginnings of damage is the battle at this stage. Apart from not flipping it at the lights. Or getting a ticket.

That's some amazingly sage advice, as obvious as it seems when I read it. And this being Nashville, I'm not sure it's possible to get a ticket.

I'm already at 4% for the break-in. That was guidance from Quattrini, too. I've been deliberately avoiding taxing the motor, just putting heat cycles and run time on it. I don't think I've seen temps get over 250 yet.

I think the biggest main right now I have is a 185, so I'll put that in next and see if it stumbles. I already took the air screw down to one turn. I'll go in another half turn and order more jets today. I wish I knew what I did with my richer idle jets, because I have up to 65 somewhere.

Don't worry.
Just order more and you will immediately find them when you go to put the new ones away.

Sorry about the Stator thing. It sucks to spend good money and have the part not fit. Sometimes the way it goes when building something of a really high performance nature, but still not fun.

Meh. It happens, although I expected better from SIP, especially given that it was an aftermarket piece to support their own aftermarket ignition & engine cases.

While I'm out time and money, I have the advantage that I didn't hard NEED it to fit like someone who couldn't weld up their existing plate would. I will continue to run my modified plate. I don't think those welds are going anywhere any time soon.

I upped the main to 175, which is the biggest jet I have on hand, took it out for a quick spin and it doesn't stumble a bit. Runs even stronger than it did, so I'm headed in the right direction.

So I came home and ordered everything from 178 to 190 off JetsRUs, along with 58, 60, and 62 idle jets. Once those show up, I'll be able to get back to dialing in the carb.

My main goal for right now is to not get ahead of myself and blow anything up due to impatience.

I also added LED's to the turn signals to show me when they're on. In keeping with the sleeper rat aesthetic, they're just stuck to the painter's tape for now. Still no blanking plate, but I'll get there eventually.

If 175 is still completely clear, it will not full splutter until at least 185. I have a full box set 200 up to 220, which I call 'the big jets' . Some don't splutter until one of those are in.
Getting the main jet big enough is important but pilot right makes the most difference to the overall experience.

With a 60 idle at 1.5 turns out and a 190MJ, it still runs well, but loses about 1,000 top end RPM's. Red line is now just a hair over 12k.

It feels sluggish compared to what I've gotten used to. There's a definite sag at 1/4 throttle before it gets onto the pipe, too.

The CHT is indicating super-cool temps, like nothing over about 225F that I noticed. It makes me wonder if it's either not reading right or not getting good contact the head or something.

I took a couple GSF Dyno's and while I don't believe the HP number, I do believe that shape of the curve. My observed top speed (57 in 2nd & 79 in 3rd) on my dyno runs matches with my gearing calculator, so I think that the gearing & wheel size numbers are correct, but the other input parameters have to be off.

In less-fun news, as I was getting on the highway after doing my test runs...MY REAR WHEEL CAME OFF!

I initially thought it must be a blowout, even though it's a tubeless tire. Basically, things got suddenly super-bumpy, the rear tire started to skip, and the bike started to swerve all over the place. I jumped on the brakes and got it just shut down just as I slid up against the barrier.

For added fun, it's an overpass ramp, so there's a three foot barrier, and then open space down to the ground, which is probably 20 feet below. The only casualty was that I scraped up my my boot and my right foot & ankle are kind of sore.

I got it home the worst way possible (calling my wife to come pick me up), and when I inspected everything, it all looked fine, so I put the tire back on with nordlocks, torqued to 16 ft-lb's, and used it to make a burrito run.

All I can come up with is that I forgot to fully torque the lug nuts when I re-assembled the motor. That was at the tail end of three long days, so it's entirely possible that Mistakes Were Made by that point. That's the sort of mistake that always worries me, because it's entirely avoidable, and yet I didn't avoid it.

Regardless, other than my Doc's never being the same, all's well that ends well, I guess.


Don't believe the number, just the curve!

Constant reminder

Couple comments…

A). 79 in third?!?!? Holy f#%balls! That's just nuts man.

B). Back wheel came off?!?!? Also… Holy f%^#balls That's just nuts man!

Glad only the docs are worse for wear amigo!

Wait'll I tell you about 4th. Seriously, though, I've only had it up to 85 and then then I lost my nerve. I should have put a short 4th in when I rebuilt it, because it definitely goes faster than I'm ever going to ride it. I just didn't want to drop the cash in the moment. Dude...on the list of ways I could have been worse for wear...I was skidding hard toward that wholly inadequate barrier, trying to decide at what point I just gave up and laid it down to avoid going over the side.

I consider myself to be the Luckiest of Lucky MF's that I walked away from that effectively intact.


(Simulated Image)

I can't comment any better than this. Holy F%^#balls!

Curve looks good. The dip at 6000 looks completely usual. This is where getting the gearing right is important. Peak power at 9000rpm is good on a non tuned kit. The correct main jet, that will not do any damage, is not so far under the one that faintly splutters at WOT. Smaller main jets will rev more violently but the life of the top end drastically shortens.
If the pilot jet is correct, when fully hot it will idle at 900rpm for a good while and still rev up cleanly without a big cloud of smoke or bog. And if the choke is left on when still cold it will stall.

You are certainly lucky. Last week I forgot to do up the main 10mm exhaust bolt. Had just been doing 75mph for several miles. Nothing happened but lost the nut somewhere. Got home and saw the exhaust loose and bolt bouncing against the tyre. Doh A close call. Sure we all do it.

Can we get Chandler's title of "Lucky" in bold? Maybe a bigger font? Or start adding exponents to it?

Glad you were able to rein Smallstate in before shit transitioned from "Real" to "John Woo Film". Pour one out for the Docs and burn an offering to your tiki.

My old Riva 180 spit off a couple of wheel nuts after a tire change and brake service. Couple is a bigger issue when there are only three studs holding the rim to the hub. The third one was grabbing it's hat-and-coat as I got things stopped. Pretty solid demonstration that Fuji Locks are single-use fasteners.

Holy shit dude! Glad the coin didn't flip the other way. Keep it up and Jess is going to have to make another MV award just for you 😂

And as far as the Doc's go, gives 'em character. You're giving the "bouncing soles" moniker a whole new meaning…

I agree the curve looks about right, even if the numbers seem off a bit. The shape matches with my observations while riding, though.

I think I'm going to wind up with a 182 or 185 main. I'm going to see if walking it down a bit will get some of the snap back into the curve, but it definitely feels close. I already have more power than I need, so trading off a little bit of peak for longevity is a good trade here.

I think the idle is also getting very close. When I come off the throttle, revs drop like a rock, no hunting at all, then it will idle at 900-1000 RPM's more-or-less indefinitely. I might let the air screw out a tiny bit more, but it's also very close.

The only annoying thing about that is that the headlight pulses to the point it's almost flashing at that speed, but I have a small battery arriving today which I'm going to add to the electricals to correct that.

Sadly, it's raining today and due to keep raining all week, so I may not make much progress dialing in the carb for the next week or so.

It's Mother Nature's way of telling you to do a bolt check.

Haw!

Good call!

There is, as Ray8 has previously noted, something really comforting about the way that nuts secured by Nordlocks feel when you both torque them down (you can feel them ratcheting) and how they resist when you remove them.

Right about now I'd be checking the cotter pin and the headset bolt …

I was just thinking the same thing. I'm going to go over the GL with a fine tooth, and a wrench, before I take it for a spin...

Definitely a very close call! I'm glad you happened to be wearing Docs and not Sambas as well! I lost a rear wheel once too. I was riding the twisties up around in the hills where i live. While going around one of the corners i felt the rear end was a bit "loose" going around one of the bends in the road. I slowed down to about 1mph and then the wheel fell off and then of course the back end of the scooter dropped down about 3". I'm lucky that i listened to my spidey senses!

Glad you're OK! Did you have longer studs in there?? Stock studs just aren't enough for the SIP rims…

Thanks!

I did not, but I've measured the SIP rims before and they're the same thickness as a steel split rim (6mm) in the lug nut well.

That means using the 12mm lugs, but they provide lateral support for the wheel to the stud, so that's actually a Good Thing versus the normal arrangement.

Pinasco tubeless split rims, on the other hand, are 8mm thick. Those need a longer stud, but they use "regular" M8 nuts, so I use nylock nuts on those.

Did you find what main jet number gives WOT splutter?
Pilot dropping quickly to idle is a good sign. Taking too long to get there then cutting out is always lean symptom.
I like the pulsing headlight. Is like a vespa signature.

Woah…! Super lucky CM!

Calling the war dept for the rescue must've been fun…

Glad you're unscathed, lucky the rear wheel didn't strip anything.

This definitely deserves a new award, more so than the blown up engine one.

Just when I think that I've heard it all, Chandler, you take it to another level. After riding this scoot, all you other ones are going to be - how should I put this - Meh?. I did not think it was possible to get that kind of speed from a smallie, or anything with the name Vespa on it. I think you may want to look into a rear disc set up or maybe a double disc front? Meanwhile, I'm glad you are ok, that was one scary ride. I would have had to change my shorts after a ride like that.

I'm going to have to order bigger jets than the 190 to find a true splutter. Right now it's just lost some top end RPM's and feels rich. I didn't get the chance to see where the CHT on the highway for obvious reasons, though.

The idle is good. It will tick along at 900 RPM's more-or-less indefinitely, so I'm leaving it alone.

The headlight is an LED, so it doesn't just do the Vespa Pulse, it full on flashes at that level of idle. I added the battery yesterday, though, and now it's dead steady . Let's just say that the War Dept was less-than-thrilled with the whole affair, but her position softened after I made a run to the taco truck.

I'm not sure that a new award would send the right message in this case. It'd be sort've like saying, "We're awarding you the new Black Skull award, which is for people who didn't learn their lesson from the first five Purple Hearts!" I definitely had to take a breather afterwards, I won't deny. It all happened so fast that I was stopped almost before the adrenaline kicked it. Extremely dangerous tasks always have an air of unreality to them as they're happening to/around me, and not just scooters. I'm just focused on the immediate tasks of the moment, like keeping the bike upright, out of the way of cars, also working through the scenario itself, etc. It won't be until after things calm back down that I'm like, "Holy Shit! That could have been (was) really bad."

And this scoot is definitely hella-fast, I won't deny that. I'll probably never know how fast it can really go. I wanted to build one like this, though, and have succeeded. Plus, the smallframe is a very different, but super-fun bike to ride.

Not that my engine seize experience is really comparable to your exploits, but it's true. It's over before you have time to think or be afraid. I have been in a few car accidents where time stood still and somehow I did all the right things to stay safe.

Glad you are ok.

I can't stress how important it is to know where WOT splutter is. Getting up to this level of power has a very low threshold of error. And by error I mean expensive.
The correct main jet that will make the cylinder last at least 10,000 miles is not very far under the splutter point.
If you want more rpm, need to Dremel the cylinder. The shape of that curve means there is more in it.

okay...main jets clear up to 220 ordered. Assuming they're the same as last batch, they'll be here on Friday so I can play "Find the Splutter" over the weekend.

If someone told me they had a scooter and didn't know how fast it went, I'd normally say "nah that's crazy" but Vader had a Quattrini in his smallie and I remember him telling me he didn't know the top speed either. He was hitting close to 80 in third. He said the problem is there really isn't a stretch of good clean road to take it on past that. Even so, what's the point? All it takes is a rock or some debris or some sketchy crack in the asphalt and it's curtains.

Ya dodged another bullet, Chandler. Just sayin …