Modern Vespa

Sorry about your ride getting hit. That really sucks, but glad you weren't on it when it happened.

Agreed. I was going to do it before I started last night, but got delayed and was then hurrying to get my testing done. It's Job One for today.

And, yeah, it sounds worse in the video than it is. The YouTube version is even worse than the pre-upload video. I'm confident in the pilot at this point. I might turn the air screw in a tiny bit more because after the WOT tests, it returns to 1,300, then drops further down a few seconds later. When out riding, though, it'll sit and idle at 1,000-1,100 RPM's pretty much until I get bored of watching it.

I'm less confident in the main, though. I'm going to go back up to 182 and see if that improves or worsens the unloaded WOT stumbling, then work from there.

Then tweak the air screw. Then back to the L1 tests. And hopefully the cycle won't need to begin anew. It is for this test, which is to compare WOT RPM's to 1/2-1/4 throttle RPM's. I'm still not entirely certain what I'm looking for translating text to actual observations (part of why I post the videos), but I'll figure it out

I also find that being able to go back and re-watch the testing as I learn what I'm looking for improves speeds my learning cycle immensely.

For those who couldn't stand the noise, here's a summary of the testing: If I'd gotten up and gone out to it immediately after they handed me my order, I'd have been kneeling down putting my tacos on the bike when he hit it, so it's quite likely dumbass *would* have hit me. Only the fact that I decided to finish reading an article saved me from that fate.

I fixed the flywheel scraping this afternoon. In all my time working on these things, this was definitely one of my more "WTF? " moments.

I unscrewed the bolts on the fan shroud and...an 11mm box end wrench fell out. For reals.

I can't even begin to work out how that happened.

Meanwhile, I upped the main to a 182 and based on some test riding, I think I'm going to go up to a 185.

And speaking of 85, I jumped on the highway today and hit 85 (well, 86, but it lacks the verbal flair) on the GPS. It was pretty darn fast. Not really sure I need to do that again.

I have more videos, but I'm not sure if it adds any value to upload them.


Seriously. WTF????

Maybe an exorcist is needed for the smallie??
It's either trying to kill you, your bank account or itself…

So, the 10mm spanner is still missing?

Must be doing something right 86mph is quick, especially on a smallie.

With the B taper the main jet needs to be bigger. Said this about a page ago. You are lucky you've been getting away with it.

With those low rpms at 1/4 something is going on with the diameter. And it's probably too lean. As there is a lean sound down there somewhere. When getting new needles go shorter on L1. Clip 5 should be unridable rich on an ideal set up.

The wrench thing is not understandable to me. Wouldn't one of the flywheel blades have hooked one end of the wrench and gouged it into the guard? How can it even fit in there?

Last edited by nomadinsiam on Sat, 11 Mar 2023 14:21:58 +0000; edited 1 time

Those trucks are kid killers too. Unsafe at any speed.

Maybe just an age thing or having small children at one time, but I never trusted back up cameras…or even mirrors. Gotta have a look out the window first.

The Smallstate definitely had a rough weekend. Like The Hangover, Scooter Edition. At last it gained a wrench instead of, say, losing a kidney. Clip 5 was nearly unrideably rich. I took it back to 4th after riding about a block with the 182 main. 4th clip is a little too rich, but not terrible. I'm going to go all the way up to a 190 main and see how that feels with the B taper, but I agree that I probably need a richer diameter. That only gives me one option on the B taper, a BGF.

When I pull the carb to put in the richer main, I'm going to re-check the air screw. I think I've turned it in enough now that it maybe time for a 62 pilot jet, which would be contributing to the low end lean-ness.

I feel like it finally started to really click in my head last night thinking about the evening's tuning, not just how taper and diameter effect the transition to main and the transition from pilot to needle, but how changes to them interact with the pilot and (especially) main.

Unless I need that BGF, I'm optimistic I'm going to make some solid progress dialing things in. Which is good since I'm going to have to pull the motor next weekend to build the Rides of March shipping suitcase. I KNOW!!!! My theory is that it was sitting on top of the flywheel, so wedged between the flywheel and the shroud, not under it, so the fins couldn't catch.

As to how it got in there? I have NO idea. I didn't realize I even had an 11mm wrench near the bike last weekend. MJ introduced me to the term "Brodozer" to describe them, and it's really the perfect fit.

I had a dude back into my Sprint a few years ago while I was standing next to it. New car, definitely had a backup camera, he insisted he couldn't see it (or me, apparently). Douchebag was on his cell phone, so obviously not paying attention. He broke one of the OG turn signals, too, then didn't believe they were unobtanium.

I need to just start parking on the damn sidewalk. And people wonder why I hate people.

Fuckstockings. What are horrible chapter in this novel. Here's to brighter days.

It's all heading in a good direction now.

I set a new personal scooter speed record without blowing up anyone or anything last night. Other than some road rash on the turn signals and speedo, there was no real body damage from the Brodozing. Sure, some of the rattle can scraped off, but nothing important was harmed, like the motor or my "I need ammunition, not a ride" sticker.

And I was able to compound+polish the speedo enough that it's no longer annoying to read. Maybe I'll wet sand it a little bit if I decide I still don't like it, but yesterday, I didn't even notice the scratches.

And today/tomorrow will see more improvements with the next iteration of carb tuning.

Brodozing = lolz!

Like that "can't stop won't stop" chutzpah!
Sure you will have that bad mother scratcher dialed in quick fast!

Does BGF have a shorter L1? Probably 2mm would do.

Main jet is difficult. The jet that will protect the engine is not the one that revs the highest. I have always had trouble with this too.

No, there's a BEG, but that's a significantly (3mm) shorter/richer L1. I also have a couple C taper needles that might be worth a test, but.

I got out and rode a few combinations yesterday, trying to find the upper (richness) limits of needles and mains.

I checked the air screw yesterday morning and it was set a 1 3/8 turns out, so I left the 60 pilot jet in. It idles quite happily at 1,100 RPM's, so I'm leaving that well enough alone for now.

While the 182 felt really good, the temps were already at 311 on the CHT when I got off the highway and felt safe to look after just those couple miles at WOT.

Just to make sure, I jumped from Friday's 182 up to a 188 and it was way too rich. With the needle on 4th clip and it was stumbling at both 1/4 and 3/4 throttle. Like "struggled to make power until well into the power band" rich. Lotta downshifting and couldn't hold speed at 50-55 in 4th gear.

So I dropped it down to a 185 and 4th clip and that was better. Makes good power, but still comes on late. It also is still stumbling at 1/4 and 3/4 throttle.

I dropped back to third clip, but was out of time and energy for test riding at that point, so I'm going to get it out in a little bit and see how it does.

Assuming that everything but that low end is correct(ish), it may be time to talk about a different slide to bring 1/4 in line with the top end.

I'll capture some video while riding at various throttle positions today that should be helpful for a better diagnosis.

Anything under about 70 MPH, the temps stay down in the 250-275 range, so I have no doubt it'll perform admirably at ROM at this point, which is the minimum baseline for success right now.

Of course, the way the weather is behaving in California these days, I might have to install a snorkel on it due to high water.

Pilot at 1 3/8 on a 60 jet means the diameter is lean. Go with the richer diameter. Won't need a new slide.

The main jet and clip don't interact. The main jet is correct (for the purpose) or not. The CHT can misbehave when the jet is in the ballpark. Don't always trust it. It's a guide. Go full splutter on the main jet, then reduce until it doesn't (down 10 points maximum). This way you know its correct. Going to get hot in CA. Redo the main jet from splutter, after every needle change.

Worry about the clip once the diameter is correct. It will change everything.

So richer diameter it is...BGF in the cart, along with a CEF for good measure. Still cheaper than a slide.

I ended up using a 6 slide on my airstriker, leaning out from a 4.

The slide 4 + idle jet + needle never worked in a million years. Rich all round


I think Swa45 did the same too.

Oh how open is the slide? Should be really high up if you can make a 60 jet 1-3/8th turns out work…

If not, its the notorious air leak… lol

I really don't think it's an air leak. I'll probably check it just to be sure when the Motor comes out of the bike, but no other indicators.

Okay...just back from some testing with the BGG-3rd clip, 185 main. Even though I'll get to reset those bits, the performance from 1/2 throttle on up is really on point now. e.g. I did a half throttle long run and while it took longer than at WOT, it climbed up past 70 MPH, so plenty of power, just not trying as hard to make use of it.

As I rode and listened, I can definitely hear the 1/4 throttle leanness now. Kind've like the popping hunting for idle of a too-lean idle jet...I don't know why in all the years I've been doing this, it was never so obvious to me as it was today once it clicked.

I have lots of good footage showing CHT/Tach, Throttle Position, and Speed that I need to pull some snippets from.


Lots of this

I don't have a smallie and try not to look too hard at smallies because then one might find it's way to my garage, and the garage is already filled with a couple years worth of projects, let alone the garage itself.

BUT I decided to read and follow along this thread because I KNEW it would be entertaining, and informative at the least.

You have not let me down - between this and the brodozer.... I've having all sorts of excitement vicariously through this post, and I don't even have a smallie!

Get a smaaaaalllieee....youuuuuu'lllllll beeeeee coooooooolllll....

I do love this bike, and not just because it's fast beyond any justification or rationalization, much less actual need. It's just a joy to ride. It's like Mel Brooks famously said, "Tragedy is when I stub my toe. Comedy is when you fall in an open manhole and die.

In the meanwhile, I upped the idle from a 60 to a 62 and am glad I did. It's not fully dialed in yet, but it feels a little stronger coming off the line, even just setting the pilot at 1.5 turns and riding. I can't imagine it will be necessary, but I will probably try a 65 since I have it, just to test/confirm it's too rich, since that's what I thought I was doing with the 62.

Once I get the diameter richened up so 1/4-3/8 throttle is also performing, this thing is going to be uh-mazing.

*opens the browser tab for jetsrus.com...again...*

If upping the pilot made it better it confirms the diameter is definitely lean. Once richer diameter the pilot will need to be reduced. Great it's going well. Did you find the main jet that splutters at held wot? This is worth the time, while waiting for new needles.

Wait until you do the 200 engine with similar tech. Is a step change quicker.

188 was splutter at WOT. I'm now at 185 and happy with it.

The richer diameter needles are ordered, so they'll show up Thursday or Friday. Wife and daughter leave Friday morning, which means that Friday evening and pretty much all weekend can be scooter time.

That also explains what the idle is so much richer than expected, too.

So many scooters are the same. Just because they start, ride and don't seize, doesn't mean the jetting is good. When going to rallys it's great but like an out of tune orchestra.

The F diameter made a difference. I just posted up a video comparing G vs. F diameters. The lean hunting/popping went away with the F diameter under nearly identical riding conditions.

The idle and main now get revisited, but I have the full catalog of those, so at least I don't need to order anything.

you have cursed yourself

At this point, pretty much the only thing left to order are slides!

then you will misplace the things you have....

Better. Get the pilot to settle at 1.5 turns. MJ as big as possible. Then all focus on L1. Before the big holiday.

Yup.

Next I'm going to go from the 185 back up to a 188 main, see what that does for me. Pilot will probably go back down to 60, but that's not a given yet.

L1 is still 3rd clip. I'll probably try 4th just to make sure it's still too rich, but it seemed good on my test ride this afternoon.

Are you building the case yet? We're almost there…. Will be great to see the story unfold.

Today will be final carb setup and the case will get built tomorrow, I expect.

Jeebus! That thing sounds great and really moves. And I know your just tickling it a little.

Btw, I really like the Runleader gauge…other than that I always have to have it backlit to see it and it eats batteries fairly quickly. Especially when I forget to turn it off after riding.

Yeah, it's pretty wild. I need to get the 1/4 throttle lean under control, but from 1/2 throttle and above is freakin' awesome. I don't love the Runleader, but the price is right. The CHT only updates every five seconds, but it's also the only one I can find any more that takes an M10 screw-in sensor rather than the plug ring.

Now, back to 1/4 throttle... Got out yesterday and this was the exact same stretch of road where it ran cleanly on Friday...popping like mad at 1/4 throttle.

I'm going to test a DDE that I bought for just this reason, but even if that works, now I'm back to the 3/4 throttle problem that the B taper was bought to address. The DDE is the richest taper I can get in an E diameter, though.

I'm at a bit of a loss on this right now.

Jack...tell me ya got something to try, because the motor will be coming out later today so I can build the shipping case.

Yeah, most of carb tuning woes are 1/8 to 1/2 throttle…

Why's it going in a box again?

'Cause he's headed out here - for Rides of March...
BYOM.
Assembling in my shop on Thursday.

Hey - CM - the good news is... there are killer roads to run on here - long, straight and divided by grass median. This is Orange County...


The doner bike - thanks to SoCal

Red smallie 🔥🔥🔥

Ooooh...

While I'm thinking about it...what's the tail/brake light in that thing? Mike said it's 6V, so I need to bring bulbs. Is it a dual-filament or two different bayonets?

Jetting woes…?

Just saying…

(Yeah ok yours is a 60 S, but hey who's being anal…? On and falc exhaust. Courtesy of friends at GSF)

What's the worse that can happen? You don't leave your driveway…


Translation: Who drives the Quattrini M1-L-60 and what comes out...

42 pilot jet, 160 main keihin 39. Just saying… 💁🏻‍♂️

I'll have a look today.
You will also likely remove the spare to carry fuel?
All the smallie guys last year had a little can.
First day is about 50 miles to the gas station I think.

Pics a little later when I get up to the shop.