Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:36 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:36 am linkquote
Well, I guess I'll find out the hard way if it needs that short 4th, then.
Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:13 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11846
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11846
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:13 pm linkquote
SoCalGuy wrote:
You may want to close up all the ratios to avoid ending up with one of those neck snappers that has no pull at low RPM then blasts off when it hits the pipe.
you say that like it's a bad thing...

but I concur doctor. short 4th is always a good idea. or a long third...
Thu Sep 08, 2022 5:52 pm

Addicted
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 959

 
Addicted
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 959

Thu Sep 08, 2022 5:52 pm linkquote
Ah CM, just re-reading the posts.

When I was mentioning the clutch basket, I meant the outer basket attached to to primary gear…

Does the outer one fit the one finger clutch? Because it's based off a fabrri clutch, can't remember how different it is… If not it's another purchase…

I have my stock basket somewhere… but I forgot to check the difference.
Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:39 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:39 pm linkquote
108 wrote:
Ah CM, just re-reading the posts.

When I was mentioning the clutch basket, I meant the outer basket attached to to primary gear…

Does the outer one fit the one finger clutch? Because it's based off a fabrri clutch, can't remember how different it is… If not it's another purchase…

I have my stock basket somewhere… but I forgot to check the difference.
Good news... the clutch fits the stock basket.

I only received two of the four packages I was expecting today. At this point, the third ball bearing for the cruciform is the only blocking part. If necessary, I'll use the OG clutch to get to First Start, then replace it with the new One Finger when that arrives.

I'd forgotten how much logistics can get in the way on these projects, especially when breaking new ground like this.



Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:48 pm

Addicted
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 959

 
Addicted
PX 200
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Posts: 959

Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:48 pm linkquote
Yeah that's great, because if it doesn't fit… it's a case split…

Not like on a largeframe where you can swap it all out in one go.

The fear is, if you fit the OG, you have to keep the basket with the primary, and that thing seems like it's made from butter.
Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:32 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:32 pm linkquote
Okay...so I have a question about getting the race for the fly side two-part bearing out.

I didn't realize it until I went to install the new one, but the race for the old bearing is STUCK in there. I heated the case half up until I could barely hold it with my welding glove, and still couldn't get it to move. I think it might be in there with bearing compound, but whatever's going on, it's not moving.

So that being said, anyone got any suggestions? The race is flush with the outer lip, so I can't get anything underneath it.

There also seem to be some marks where the old race is peened in, maybe (blue). Do I need to go after those? The new bearing is also a two-part, but the race is on the crank and looks kind've like a T5 bearing. Its diameter matches the case without that race.

At this point, I'm thinking I'll need to cut some notches (red) in it that I can get something in there to pry it out after I heat it up again, but I'm really shooting in the dark here.



Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:50 pm

Hooked
Vespa 125 VMA, Vespa SS 180
Joined: 14 Feb 2018
Posts: 156
Location: Minneapolis, MN
 
Hooked
Vespa 125 VMA, Vespa SS 180
Joined: 14 Feb 2018
Posts: 156
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:50 pm linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
Okay...so I have a question about getting the race for the fly side two-part bearing out.

I didn't realize it until I went to install the new one, but the race for the old bearing is STUCK in there. I heated the case half up until I could barely hold it with my welding glove, and still couldn't get it to move. I think it might be in there with bearing compound, but whatever's going on, it's not moving.

So that being said, anyone got any suggestions? The race is flush with the outer lip, so I can't get anything underneath it.

There also seem to be some marks where the old race is peened in, maybe (blue). Do I need to go after those? The new bearing is also a two-part, but the race is on the crank and looks kind've like a T5 bearing. Its diameter matches the case without that race.

At this point, I'm thinking I'll need to cut some notches (red) in it that I can get something in there to pry it out after I heat it up again, but I'm really shooting in the dark here.
If you grind off the peened marks, you can remove the bearing race with a bearing puller.
Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:11 pm

Addicted
PX 200
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Addicted
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Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:11 pm linkquote
That's interesting with the peens… never seen it before on a Vespa

But even with the peens gone, a blind bearing puller won't work because it's flush.

I'd be tempted to do 2 strategic cuts and prying of the side of the cuts
Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:24 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11846
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11846
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:24 pm linkquote
you'll need to grind the peens flush. quick work with a sanding drum.

then you've got the right idea-- grind two slots in the race 180 apart with a Dremel wheel. heat and knock it out from the b'side. tappity-tap-tap side to side and just walk it right out.

I generally use a cape chisel and a small hammer.

the other option is if you've got washer that fits the ID, just weld it to the race and bang it out. the heat from the weld should release it easily. you'll still need to grind off the peening.
Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:31 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:31 pm linkquote
Thanks, everyone!

I'll start with grinding & slotting. If that doesn't work, it won't be anything at all to weld a crossbrace in there and remove it that way.

I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything obvious before I went and got all blunt trauma getting it out.
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:13 pm

Hooked
'66 Sears Cruisaire Smallframe
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 246
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
'66 Sears Cruisaire Smallframe
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 246
Location: York, PA
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:13 pm linkquote
I had that same question about that with mine. Those peen marks seem to be blue badge specific because no one seems to see them in other smallframe models. They also have about the holding strength of a few tabs of aluminum foil. I just ignored them and they popped out on their own. I think I put my case in the oven for a bit and then was able to get an internal puller in the and really wallop it until it came out.
r_fostoria wrote:
How do I get the outer part of the two piece crank bearing out? It's the last thing left to remove. It looks like its held in by six little indented tabs.


Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:49 pm

Hooked
Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, Stock 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
Joined: 22 Jun 2022
Posts: 415
Location: Finland
 
Hooked
Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, Stock 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
Joined: 22 Jun 2022
Posts: 415
Location: Finland
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:49 pm linkquote
Got a welder? Even a crappy one works just fine.
Sat Sep 10, 2022 2:01 am

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 3213
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 3213
Location: Veria, Greece
Sat Sep 10, 2022 2:01 am linkquote
^
This and get a NU204 to replace it…



Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:51 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6525
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 6525
Location: San Diego, CA
Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:51 am linkquote
Safis is spot on
Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:02 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:02 pm linkquote
Old bearing race is out. Notching & tapping didn't work, but welding and tapping did. All bearings are now installed without any further incidents, but I did find the next thing I failed to order...kickstart buffers.

It's weird. I *know* that I had a shopping cart with buffers and ball bearings both in it, but clearly I never ordered it. Ditto for a new kickstart gear. Sooooo frustrating. At least Mercato will get to me on Tuesday or Wednesday. I'll keep going as best I can in the meantime and see what else I'm missing.

I also installed my third ball. I took the SIP installation tools, strapped them to the axle with a couple of zip ties, and then pressed the ball in with a small electrician's screwdriver, which is narrow enough to fit into the slot. It took a couple of tries, but worked really well once I got the hang of it.

And I noticed that the rear hub is painted a kind've aqua color. Would that have been the original color? Google is not helpful since the pictures are pretty much all from the motor side.

Now to see how much further I can get in this process before I'm blocked once and for all.


I have a welder and I'm not afraid to use it


Improved ball installation


OG Color?

Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:47 pm

Hooked
'66 Sears Cruisaire Smallframe
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 246
Location: York, PA
 
Hooked
'66 Sears Cruisaire Smallframe
Joined: 12 Aug 2019
Posts: 246
Location: York, PA
Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:47 pm linkquote
Mine also had some of that tarnish/discoloration on it, too. I'm 99% sure they used the same silvery metallic paint for the hubs that they used on the fork.

Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:49 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:49 pm linkquote
r_fostoria wrote:
Mine also had some of that tarnish/discoloration on it, too. I'm 99% sure they used the same silvery metallic paint for the hubs that they used on the fork.
That's what I would've thought, but my front fork was rattlecanned the same time as the rst of the bike, so it's all dirty off-white wherever it's not rust-colored.
Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:46 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
Sun Sep 11, 2022 2:46 pm linkquote
Last night and today I spent fitting the crank and cylinder. If I'd known at the outset how far from a stock fit this was going to be, I'd have just bought the Quattrini cases, sold off the parts of the OG motor I wasn't going to use, and been done with it.

Also, the 54mm crank was too long. If I'd gone with something shorter, the crankcase opening would have been a LOT simpler.

So. Much. Swarf.

In order to fit the crank, I had to grind back the inside of the fly side of the crank case. That was a lot of work, even with my jig. The clutch side wasn't too bad. It just needed the rotary pad and about 10mm ground back a little around the edge.

And naturally, I had a breakthrough at the back of it, so I had to weld that up and then grind it all back down. By the time I got through all that, I was done for the evening.

Today, I tackled the cylinder. I wound up having to grind down both the outside of the cylinder skirts and the cases significantly to get it to all fit. Naturally, I had to cut through into the intake stud, so I got to weld that up.

I really agonized over thinning the skirts, but I did as little as possible, which was still a lot.

Finally, I got to cut back the stator lip and the flywheel fan guide to fit the cylinder and exhaust stud.

I can only hope that it's all going to hold air and have good timings. By the time I finished all that, I was pretty much done for the day. I probably had the cylinder on and off each case half a hundred times. Not to mention all the dremel work.

So here's to hoping that it all holds air when I finally button it up.


Studly


Stupid holes


This sucked to fix. I hope that lip isn't totally necessary...


More swarf that a ported largeframe. Go figure.

Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:37 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11846
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11846
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:37 pm linkquote
jeebus. what an ordeal!

also, a reminder to install bearings AFTER all the dirty work is done.
Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:52 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:52 pm linkquote
greasy125 wrote:
jeebus. what an ordeal!

also, a reminder to install bearings AFTER all the dirty work is done.
Yeah, I thought about taking the bearings out, but figured that it was less risky to leave them in, especially since I wound up having to weld up those spots and wanted to minimize the risk of something warping. It's all aluminum swarf, so even if a little is in there, it won't be the end of the world.

I'm going to go get an initial port timing measurement to figure out if I need spacers before I hit the order button on my Mercato cart tonight, but if it all works out, it'll be a good reference for anyone else whose tempted to try this build, even if I wouldn't recommend it.
Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:12 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11846
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11846
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:12 pm linkquote
I always keep a set of crappy used bearings that are sanded down juuuusssstttt enough to be a decent press fit so to be of use as dummy plugs. they also work a treat to drift in new bearings too!

but, solid reasoning there. sleeping dogs and all that with bearings. alum. swarf is like, 3rd on the list of annoyances created by doing work. fiberglass nonsense being number one with a bullet followed by a close second of wire wheel hairs that get flung into your clothes and get to find later!
Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:34 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:34 pm linkquote
Yeah, I have dummy sets I've made for largeframes, but only have the bearings that I pulled out of the smallie, and the fly side crank bearing has obviously turned its last turn.
Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:44 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11846
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11846
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:44 pm linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
Yeah, I have dummy sets I've made for largeframes, but only have the bearings that I pulled out of the smallie, and the fly side crank bearing has obviously turned its last turn.
not with that attitude! you have a welder and a grinder!
Sun Sep 11, 2022 7:07 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
Sun Sep 11, 2022 7:07 pm linkquote
greasy125 wrote:
not with that attitude! you have a welder and a grinder!
How do you think I made sure it had turned its last turn?
Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:23 am

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 4001
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 4001
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:23 am linkquote
Egig 170 was in stock overnight for less than 4 hours. out of stock again!

Unobtanium!
Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:38 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
Tue Sep 13, 2022 4:38 am linkquote
swiss1939 wrote:
Egig 170 was in stock overnight for less than 4 hours. out of stock again!

Unobtanium!
LOL! I got the email, too. I was going to post that it was back, but I guess I can save my keystrokes now.
Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:36 am

Addicted
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 959

 
Addicted
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 959

Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:36 am linkquote
Managed to grab a 170 kit

Crazy, they must have only received a small batch.

Should arrive before the weekend now.

3months wait… lol isn't too bad??
Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:50 am

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 4001
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 4001
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:50 am linkquote
I'm just gonna order one so that next time they get them in stock, they fill my order automatically. I can wait 6 months or whatever it will be.
Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:02 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:02 am linkquote
swiss1939 wrote:
I'm just gonna order one so that next time they get them in stock, they fill my order automatically. I can wait 6 months or whatever it will be.
That's probably what happened to that shipment. It was marked received into the inventory system, which triggered the "Item back in stock" email, then all the backorders were processed and sucked them all up.

At this point, I'd only buy one if I could get two so I wouldn't be stuck if I blew the first one up.
Fri Sep 16, 2022 7:21 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
Fri Sep 16, 2022 7:21 pm linkquote
I made pretty good progress tonight and am almost ready to close up the cases. Only thing that's holding me back at this point is that I need to pull the fly side bearing race off that crank and put it on the new crank. Once that's done, I'm ready to seal.

I think the new (non-Poligon) one-finger clutch is going to be good. No lurking surprises I can see at this point.

A very quick check for port timings tells me that I'm going to need a base or head gasket just for squish. Not a bad problem to have, really. I forgot to measure port heights and am not going to wander back out and do that tonight. Right now, I think it's going to come in at about .5mm, so a half a millimeter on one side or the other.

The good news is that as of right now, if I'm missing anything that'll keep the from motor running on a stand, I don't know what it is.

It's about time something broke my way on this project.
Fri Sep 16, 2022 7:49 pm

Addicted
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 959

 
Addicted
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 959

Fri Sep 16, 2022 7:49 pm linkquote
Exciting times!

Which flywheel side bearing are you ending up using?
Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:22 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:22 am linkquote
108 wrote:
Which flywheel side bearing are you ending up using?
It's some Indian T5-style bearing that came in the SIP bearing set. Only time will tell, but the quality seems pretty good.

Re-reading my post last night, I was pretty incoherent, especially given that I hadn't been drinking or anything.

What I was trying to say above is that I'm estimating squish is going to be around .5mm, so I'm probably making a spacer to get running on the stand. I still need to measure the the ports for exact timings. I just forgot to do that as I got distracted by squish.

Now looking at the instructions in my rather limited Italian (Waiter! There's not a single pasta dish on this menu!), It looks like they're saying .93-.97mm squish, which means a base gasket. That'd also sync with my expectations, which is that this thing is going to want high port timings, although they don't provide any recommendations, they don't provide any port timings that I can see.

They do seem to agree with my choice of a 34mm carb (albeit for a 51mm stroke). Checking the math, I get a 33.4mm carb with peak power at 9,000 RPM's, and 35 at 10k, so pretty well in the ballpark for my purposes.

Sadly, per the instructions which I'd never (been able to) read until now, I apparently should have only picked a 51mm crank. I guess I'll see what that implies for me once I can GSF Dyno my build. Who knows...maybe I'll be cracking the cases open again sooner than later after all. Yet another reason (or did I just misspell "rationalization?") to be using cheap Mazzi cranks.

Also, I love the note from Matt or Dave on my ScooterMercato order of nothing but the ball bearing spring assembly. I was more successful than many at changing the cruciform and adding the third ball, but I hadn't thought of doing it in a plastic bag, which is a great idea.

Okay...let me say that Our Machine Overlords are getting scarily useful. I threw the full-sized version of the Quattrini instructions into a browser tab, pointed Google Lens at it, and it helpfully scanned and translated it for me. We've come a long way from "scanning OCR-B printed text still requires manual review."
Quote:
M1L-60-S
EXCLUSIVELY FOR CLOSED CIRCUIT COMPETITION
To assemble this cylinder kit you will have to create space for the new exhaust manifold by modifying the C-1 engine casing in the rear area of ​​the nut, simulate a pre-assembly of the cylinder with the manifold to get the idea of ​​where the material will be removed, also check that the the cylinder pack does not interfere with the top edge of the crankcase pack. For simplicity, mount the exhaust manifold before mounting the cylinder on the
motor; between manifold and cylinder use only Loctite 510. Choose the base gasket to have the squish at 0,93 / 97mm (comparator). On the head surface, place a thread of Loctite 510, pull the cylinder screws to 0.9kg. Advice...
-Do not modify the kit in its entirety ... or at least ... you are free to do it or to have it done by third parties, but make sure you have or have the technical knowledge and equipment to do it (and I am not speaking of a mill and a wide mouth); after hours and hours of software, dynamic tests and bench tests, I don't think its performance can be improved in a couple of hours; do not let them do empirical tests at your expense, disappointments almost always arrive and someone pays .....
-The fluid dynamics of the entire kit has been developed for the 51mm stroke, in different stroke there will be a drop in performance; mid / high revs or both. - The frame must be pointed forward by lowering the front shock absorber and raising the rear shock absorber, tires and track braking system no less !! Vhst 34LD
-pol dp266
-val 50
-spi K57 2" notch
-max180/175
-min42/40+emu42/40
Quattrini M3-150-S Vespatronic muffler 25 ° / 26 ° at 1500 rpm Run in at least 10 liters, 4% good oil, before and after. NGK B9EG spark plug
Now, it's almost time to head over to Harbor Freight for a cheap bearing splitter to get this project rolling again...





Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:05 am

Addicted
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 959

 
Addicted
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 959

Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:05 am linkquote
Wut??? The plastic bag tip is genius!!

Just realised how much dremel work you had to do!!

Quatrinni folk are nutty…
Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:25 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:25 pm linkquote
Dremel work wasn't over. I had to cut back the fan guard a LOT more to finally get things to all fit.

Motor is buttoned up. Biggest oopsie during assembly was that I forgot to install the clutch woodruff key until after the cases were buttoned up, so I had to improvise a clutch compressor to disassemble the clutch in situ so I could pull the clutch basket and get the woodruff key installed. A lot of work and creative thinking by the time all was said and done.

I fabricated a blanking plate out of some 1/8" aluminum sheet. If it warps, I also have 1/4". Or steel.

Then in the course of the final dry fit, I realized that I had the exhaust manifold backwards, hence the additional fan guard cutting.

And, because it's par for this build, I have negative squish...the crank doesn't clear the head, so I need to properly measure and then make+order spacers to deal with that. I should probably measure port timings at some point, too. To start with, it'll be all head spacers.

Finally, I spitballed the stator and installed the ignition except for mounting the CDI, so all-in-all, I'm getting pretty close on this puppy.

Of course, I still have no tires for my tubeless rims. And who know if it's going to actually fit in the frame. Probably about as well as the cylinder fit the cases, I'm worrying.

Oh, and I seem to have lost the castleated rear hub nut. It's not with the rest of the rear wheel hardware. I'm sure I have a spare somewhere, just gotta find it.

Maybe I'll make more progress tonight, but most likely not.


Any time you're attacking your cases with an angle grinder, you should review the decisions that brought you to that point.



Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:48 pm

Not So Moderator
VNB vsc o9c VMA vbc VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6411
Location: Hustletown, TX
 
Not So Moderator
VNB vsc o9c VMA vbc VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6411
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:48 pm linkquote


wow.
Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:52 pm

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 4001
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 4001
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:52 pm linkquote
geez.
Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:46 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11846
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11846
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:46 pm linkquote
wowza. that's commitment.
Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:38 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6550
Location: Nashville
Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:38 pm linkquote
I wandered back out and took some measurements. The piston is .5mm below the deck, and the inset of the head is 1.5mm, so I have 2mm of room to play with port timings.

initial measurements are TR 42mm, EX 28.7mm with a 97mm conn rod and 54mm stroke.

That puts me at 130/191/30.

Simulating-ish stock timings (51 crank, dropping TDC to deck height of 2.5mm (1.5 of head inset, 1mm squish) would give 127/192/32. So I'm close, but a little higher than that.

My timings are not terrible to start, but I'm not thrilled that I'm losing some of the benefit of the inset head. I'm going to fab up a head spacer in the morning, I guess, and see if I can get a good pressure test and maybe even an intial test run because...why not?

And since it's a head spacer, it's not hard to swap out if I decide I need to.

This project has turned out to be a LOT more work than I was expecting, for sure.

Lastly, there's a small lip on the exhaust at BDC. I wasn't expecting to see that. *shrug*

Mental note...I need to get some more angle iron to fab up a test stand.

and final-final thought...I still have the smell of Permatex Aviation Gasket Cement stuck in my nose. That can't be healthy.


open wide!

Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:31 pm

Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 2240
Location: Siam
 
Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 2240
Location: Siam
Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:31 pm linkquote
You are a man possessed by some kind of spirit. I'm not sure which kind.
Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:45 pm

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6531
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6531
Location: So Cal
Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:45 pm linkquote




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