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bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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bodgemaster
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It lifts the rear 16" off the ground, which is plenty high for getting the tire off. You could put it on a 2x4 and get it up even higher, or make the legs longer. The great thing is how simple it is ... just put it under and leverage the scoot up with virtually no effort. Also nice not having any jacks or blocks of wood to deal with.
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chandlerman wrote:
I think there are going to be multiple strategies over time. Some stuff will be "just drop the rear shock bolt and lift the rear. A lot of it will be "pull the tank & carb, then lay it over. I'm using wingnut hose clamps for the carb and a simple rubber carb manifold, so it's a matter of a few seconds to get the carb on or off. Quick disconnect on the fuel line for pulling the tank.

As a general rule, I'm looking for quick disconnect options across the board. I think that if done correctly, I think I can avoid the bulk of the cable misery, other than the natural tendency to chew up cables in general, as I understand it.
If you're looking to quickly remove a rear brake cable, a T5 rear brake lever and cable can be modified to fit a PK. Perhaps it can fit other smallframes as well?
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Lucky
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I had to run an errand at lunch, so I tacked on a stop at the gas station to fill up my can, then came back and fired up the Smallie to see if it had potential.

The cables need a fair amount of adjustment (honestly, replacement. Now where are those replacement cables...)

Anyway, I goosed the throttle a little and HOLY. FUCKING. SHIT. It wheelied up so far and so fast that I thought I was going off the back and it was going to come down on top of me. The GL will pop the front wheel if I goose it in 1st and it gets a light lift in 2nd. This made that feel like a stock 125.

Sadly, I didn't have a camera running to see if it actually looked as wild as it felt, but I think I've definitely succeeded at what I set out to build.
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bodgemaster
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bodgemaster
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Yeah man! Not surprised about the wheelies. Smallies are way lighter and better balanced than largeframes, and don't have all the engine weight hanging off the side. Check out some video of smallies doing speed runs. The riders lean way over the front to keep em down.

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Hey Ice,

Did you have any problems with gear shifts?

I'm reading a few things about clutch drag with smallies because of the lever travel isn't enough and the clutch actuating arm is a little long.

Wonder if it's a phenomenon isolated to only a few smallie models?
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Lucky
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SoCalGuy wrote:
Yeah man! Not surprised about the wheelies. Smallies are way lighter and better balanced than largeframes, and don't have all the engine weight hanging off the side. Check out some video of smallies doing speed runs. The riders lean way over the front to keep em down.
Yeah, I'm used to sticking my head out over the handlebars coming off the line. This was a different order of magnitude.

Now that you mention the balance factor, it didn't try to fall over to the right while I was up on one wheel like largeframes do.

Watching that video, it's obvious how even the pipe is laid out to put the weight of the chamber forward. Now that I've actually worked on one of these motors. the whole rear-facing carb thing makes sense, too. It's amazing how much you implicitly learn by working on something rather than just studying it.
108 wrote:
Hey Ice,

Did you have any problems with gear shifts?

I'm reading a few things about clutch drag with smallies because of the lever travel isn't enough and the clutch actuating arm is a little long.

Wonder if it's a phenomenon isolated to only a few smallie models?
No real experience with gear shifting yet. The cables still need too much adjustment to have an opinion, and after almost throwing myself off the back, I just turned around took it back to the workshop. I didn't want to turn "sneak out at lunch to get a feel for what I've built" to turn into another trip to the Emergency Room.

The clutch was dragging a little, but that was completely unadjusted and new plates, but I think it'll be fine once I tweak it a little and the plates get a little more time on them. The stock clutch was just fine, so I'm not worrying about it unless I find the one-finger (which it's currently not) needs more travel than stock.

I also now have a cheap (runleader) CHT courtesy of Amazon and should have a cheap tach arriving today.

Lastly, the 3.5x10 tire on the rear has no rubbing at all and good clearance on the muffler side, too. I'm still on the hunt for 3.0x10 tires, and still having no luck.

Strangely, I had a dream last night that I was riding it, but the frame was basically vertical and all I could think was that I looked stupid as hell and I was super-irritated about it.
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Lucky
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Quick update...

I need to replace the clutch & gear cable inners & outers. The clutch is painfully stiff (literally), since I'm dealing with a gout outbreak in my hands right now.

Shifting gears is also tricky, both because the cables & shift tube are stiff and also because the cables are a little too short so they're hard to get at. They may also be installed backwards--things are so stiff & sloppy enough that it's hard to say for sure.

And if that's the case, then my wheelie yesterday was actually in second gear!

More work to come this weekend, but as usual, cut corners have to be squared before progress can continue.
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UTC quote
You'll have lots of fun replacing the cables, especially the gear cables. Let the swearing and temper tantrums begin
We will give you all the emotional support we can give.

Do you have a pet elf that can stand inside the headset? If you do, you'll have an advantage over others.
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Lucky
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nomadinsiam wrote:
You'll have lots of fun replacing the cables, especially the gear cables. Let the swearing and temper tantrums begin
We will give you all the emotional support we can give.

Do you have a pet elf that can stand inside the headset? If you do, you'll have an advantage over others.
Laughing emoticon
This sounds like exactly my unique firm of masochism, then.

They're not OG cables, so I can at least replace then one at a time.
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Lucky
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Swapping out the shifter cables was actually easier than on a largeframe, IMO. I moved the base plate out of the way in the headset so I could get at them, which made a huge difference. New gearshift and clutch cables are in and I also cleaned and re-greased the shifter tube.

The gears and clutch are still stiff, but I think part of that it just new parts breaking in. Clutch wants to drag a little, too, but that's just adjusting.

I also took it out for a little ride around the neighborhood. It was exciting, to say the least.

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Sounds really promising
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Loving the wheelies!

Looks scary as F, but thats the smallie goodness!
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Lucky
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It most definitely *is* scary AF when it sneaks up on me as the motor hits the power curve. This time, I even knew it was coming and was way way out over the bars and it still got away from me.

This thing is going to take some practice to ride well. I'm also working out what would be required for a hydraulic clutch.

And electrics. Definitely need to get the electrics hooked up.

So lots to do, but a screaming success thus far.

And lastly, it's amazingly quiet. I'm amazed at how loud it's not. I'll have to get my decibel meter and and see if it's actually quiet, or if I'm just that deaf now.
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Hydraulic clutch might sound cool, but you don't want to add the complexity to the tight crevices of a smallie Laughing emoticon

Spend that money on some good cables. Next a geared PK XL2 type clutch cover. If these still not help, a beefier clutch that holds the power with less spring tension. I like my Hartz 4 because it's soft to pull and has proper friction plates with thick tabs.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
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Nedminder
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hahahahaha - you scared the crap out of the black car going the other direction?
unless of course that was your wife.
in which case I completely agree with her.
that was absolutely not okay.
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FINYoshi wrote:
Spend that money on some good cables. Next a geared PK XL2 type clutch cover. If these still not help, a beefier clutch that holds the power with less spring tension. I like my Hartz 4 because it's soft to pull and has proper friction plates with thick tabs.
Does the pk xl clutch cover fit on all smallframes?
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HI-HO SILVER! AND AWAY!

sweet lord my man, that thing is gnarly!
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108 wrote:
Does the pk xl clutch cover fit on all smallframes?
Yep. Needs also PK XL2 holder for clutch cable (or modification to existing one) so the cable does bit foul on the kickstarter

This image is from a modified primmy-holder for long arm cover but the principle is the same with PK XL2. Note that this rather hasty mod has some flex in it when pulling the clutch and adding some stiffening is on the to-do list when the part comes off next time.
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So this one?
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Lucky
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FINYoshi wrote:
Hydraulic clutch might sound cool, but you don't want to add the complexity to the tight crevices of a smallie Laughing emoticon

Spend that money on some good cables. Next a geared PK XL2 type clutch cover. If these still not help, a beefier clutch that holds the power with less spring tension. I like my Hartz 4 because it's soft to pull and has proper friction plates with thick tabs.
This makes a lot of sense. I tracked down the Crimaz cover, which comes as a complete kit and is in stock at all my favorite German parts sites. That, the cable bracket, and new shocks will be on my way soon, along with various other bits n' bobs like a fuel can.

(Yes, 108, that seems to be the one. SM has 'em domestically, too)
charlieman22 wrote:
hahahahaha - you scared the crap out of the black car going the other direction?
unless of course that was your wife.
in which case I completely agree with her.
that was absolutely not okay.
Lucky for me it wasn't my wife or I'd probably be grounded right now! It was a near-pants-changing experience, for sure.

One of the punk rawk girls who lives down the block from me was walking her dog and when I came back around to pick up the camera, she let me know that she thought both my scoot and my shenanigans were awesome.
greasy125 wrote:
HI-HO SILVER! AND AWAY!

sweet lord my man, that thing is gnarly!
It's wild. That's just how fast and hard it comes onto the pipe, which is awesome in 3rd and 4th, but a little bit exciting in 1st and second. I can almost get myself out over the bars enough to manage it in 2nd (i.e. keep the wheel on the ground-ish if I'm careful), but first is 100%, "I hope you have a back pad in your jacket, Kemosabe." Just call me the Lone Ranger. Razz emoticon
FINYoshi wrote:
Yep. Needs also PK XL2 holder for clutch cable (or modification to existing one) so the cable does bit foul on the kickstarter

This image is from a modified primmy-holder for long arm cover but the principle is the same with PK XL2. Note that this rather hasty mod has some flex in it when pulling the clutch and adding some stiffening is on the to-do list when the part comes off next time.
This was all super-helpful, Yoshi. Thanks!

I've also learned a lot about the smallie clutch covers, too.

This pretty well fills in the gaps for now...other than a new wiring harness, which I just realized I forgot to order... :man-facepalming: I guess I'll be hacking up the existing 6V harness for a little bit. Won't be the first time.

I'll show the front fork a little love when I put the new shock on, but the steering bearings are great, so I'm not going to drop it for now. That can wait until I do the new wiring harness.

All good stuff. I should probably get a legal plate for it, not that I'll get pulled over for anything so mundane here, but I have to go to the DMV anyway because they screwed up the registration on the GL and need to see the title before they'll let me renew it.
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Ossessionato
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Some kitted small frames sound really obnoxious, but that does have a nice bearable sound.
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Lucky
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nomadinsiam wrote:
Some kitted small frames sound really obnoxious, but that does have a nice bearable sound.
It's quieter (or at least less intrusive) than my GL. More on par with a big box, I think.

I had the GL out this morning and the clutch pull on it felt like nothing compared to what I've been dealing with on the smallstate. I'm glad I have the Crimaz cover on the way.
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Lesson learnt…

The clutch cover is critical to the build!!

No one mentioned that…!

Here's me thinking the 50s series 1 cover will work… Facepalm emoticon

Ordering on my side too!
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Lucky
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This thread: Crimaz PK clutch conversion for Smallframe (and in particular, this post) has an outstanding breakdown of the evolution of the smallie clutch cover from V1 to V2 (largeframe/exposed inner arm style) to V3 (PK/geared).
@108 avatar
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chandlerman wrote:
This thread: Crimaz PK clutch conversion for Smallframe (and in particular, this post) has an outstanding breakdown of the evolution of the smallie clutch cover from V1 to V2 (largeframe/exposed inner arm style) to V3 (PK/geared).
Geez… way clearer now… but doesn't explain the reasons why the variations exist.

Any idea why the crimaz cover works better with the Egig one finger clutch?
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Lucky
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It's all about mechanical advantage. You have multiple levers at play in the whole design:
1) The clutch lever to the clutch cable (more range == more advantage)
2) The clutch cable pulls the clutch arm (Cable length & condition affect friction/resistance)
3) the clutch arm turns either a cam or a gear (increasing length increases leverage, but also necessary range of throw)
4) the cam/gear drives the plunger (either linear (gear) or sinusoidal (cam) effort)

You're trying to get some amount of throw (a few millimeters) of movement of the plunger, balanced across the mechanical advantage of each lever versus the cost (friction) of each point of motion.

One big difference between the cam & the gear is that the gear provides constant force across the motion, whereas the cam has a "sweet spot" where you get the most force for your input effort.

I saw another post where OopsClunkThud showed how he had cut a clutch lever to increase the throw and thus get more movement (and thus more mechanical advantage), too. I can't find a link to that post, but may be trying his technique if I'm still not happy with the clutch stiffness with the new cover.

Drawing to follow...
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Quick update... Took the Smallstate to the liquor store this afternoon (because I'm classy like that) and holy shit is that thing fun to ride.

When it jumps onto the pipe in third and fourth, it's utterly insane. I hit 60 on GPS in third without even meaning to.

Of course, I hadn't considered that it has no carrying capacity, so I rode home with a couple bottles stuck inside my jacket, but it was totally worth it.

Along those same lines, what are the cargo options on a smallie?
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I like front rack best, the rears tend to look dumb (on smallies).
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what you got going on out back anyway, tractor light or ? a lot of the rear racks won't work with the tractor light.
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lots of dead pictures in this thread, but enough still live to make it worthwhile to comb through

General rack thread,show us yours & hauling stuff howto
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Lucky
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Thanks, John!

It's maybe a tractor light, maybe just stolen off someone's trailer. Hard to say for sure given the overall state of things.

But what I definitely don't want is anything that shifts the center of gravity even a millimeter further back. I have a basket that came on my sprint which attaches to the back of the legshield. Something like that, but it'll have to not interfere with the MRP fuel can rack that's also going back there.

I don't need a lot of carrying capacity. Basically enough for a few bottles of wine or some donuts. I'll have to do a little digging and figure it out.
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You can get legshield mounted boxes like a p series, SIP sell them.
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Quote:
It's maybe a tractor light, maybe just stolen off someone's trailer.
hahaha.
Quote:
You can get legshield mounted boxes like a p series,
Chandlerman's knees might complain.
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Lower the helium pressure in the front tire a few pounds. Also make sure to keep your right foot hovering over the brake pedal and two fingers hovering over the clutch lever...you know, just in case.
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Ossessionato
@christopher_55934 avatar
2007 Stella 225
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3547
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
UTC quote
Stiffer rear shock, less weight transferred to rear during acceleration.
@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7154
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7154
Location: So Cal
UTC quote
A behind the legshield rack like this seems pretty handy.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@sdjohn avatar
UTC

Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8508
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8508
Location: San Diego, CA
UTC quote
The baskets are cool but the leggie box takes the same amount of space and is lockable and enclosed. But then again the baskets are so period correct.
@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7154
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7154
Location: So Cal
UTC quote
Or you could go minimalist:
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@birdsnest avatar
UTC

Not So Moderator
VNB VSC VMA VSX - o9c vbc vmb
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8253
Location: Hustletown, TX
 
Not So Moderator
@birdsnest avatar
VNB VSC VMA VSX - o9c vbc vmb
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8253
Location: Hustletown, TX
UTC quote
You cold always practice your sKillz and skip the rack completely ...
what could go wrong?
what could go wrong?
OP
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9833
Location: Nashville

45 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9833
Location: Nashville

45 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
I prefer the basket to an actual box, I think, because legshield boxes on older bikes always look bodge-tastic to me.

I have one of those baskets on my GL. It came with my Sprint and I suspect it's an OG accessory. It's really easy to move around and add or remove, but it mostly just lives on the GL.

I'm thinking some tiedown hooks for the floorboard along with a basket and I'll be in good shape.

I have a toolbox coming for under the seat, which'll be enough to store some 2T oil and a measuring cup, maybe some spare cables.

As I said, all I really need is enough capacity for some wine, beers, or donuts. Mmm.....donuts....
It's going to be too wide for the smallie, isn't it?
It's going to be too wide for the smallie, isn't it?
Truly a trailer light!
Truly a trailer light!
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