Modern Vespa

I think it's safe to say we all love the smell of castor oil in 2 stroke engines.
Personally it's almost addictive. I've alway got my fix by adding a cap full of Castol R to my fuel tank. Just as a taster.

I've just read an article in a MX magazine about the pros and cons of castor oil.

Cons
They said ( now these are not my words as I'm no expert . So would love to hear your opinion )is that over long periods of use it can start to stick up valves etc and it doesn't like to be sat for long periods of time with no use.

Pros
Castor oil actually lubes the cylinder better as it doesn't burn away so easily. Especially in the case of higher temperature / stressed race engines.

Is this common knowledge as this is kind of what I've heard over as long as I can remember ?

The thing is they go on to list all the different castor oils. But point out that Maximo 927 castor oil has an additive ( not sure if this is a new thing or not ) that completely removes all the cons of running a castor oil. Its no longer gets sticky and can sit for long periods. So technically it should now be cool to run in scooters.
Very interesting I thought.
So I looked it up and there are lots of reviews from people ( in mainly the MX world but also a few Vespa riders but they were all premix ) who have actually used this oil over long periods and they report that there is no sign of any stickiness at all. So does this Maximo 927 mean that we can now really put it in our scooters without any issues at all ?

Has anyone tried it ? Any thoughts ?

The reason I'm trying to educate myself on this is I'm about to build a all singing all dancing 190 BGM engine and as it's a higher stressed engine wondered if I could run Castor oil properly . The only other query is that I'm going to run a 26 autolube carb. All the reviews were premix .So would like to be reassured that the non sticky oil will actually do what they promise and not glue up my carb ? As I like the idea of autolube over premix.

My thoughts are that this is a weird first post. Is this targeted spam?

An oil post as a first post...

Eeeeeer what am I supposed to post as a first post then ?
Is this not the place for these types of questions ?

You're in almost the right place GetSome.
We hav a NSM (Not So Modern) section for the 2T afflicted.
https://modernvespa.com/forum/forum19

Welcome to MV

Ok .
I'll redirect my question then.
Thank you

Just for the record no this wasnt spam. It's someone with a genuine scootering question. To be honest I thought my post read genuinely enough. First post or not.

Fair enough, it just seemed like such a random first question. And no introduction either.

To reply to your question, apart from the smell, why castor oil? Wouldn't you be better using something specifically developed for a 2 stroke engine, or is that what Maximo 927 is?

There's a thead somewhere that touches on different smelling 2 stroke oils, there was mention of a bacon smelling one.

Castor oil is two stroke oil. As used in Motocross. It used to be purely for race engines that get stripped down regularly. It's supposed to be a better lubricant as it doesn't burn away but only for short periods because it gums up over use.
This new ( in fact I don't even know if it is new ) oil apparently removes the sticky part. Making it useable in long term two stroke engines. I'd never heard of this make before so was interested in if it actually works.
If it does do what it says then hopefully it would be better for our engines.

The nice smell is an added bonus.

Not sure about Bacon though.

P.S Hello I'm Darren

I learned a long time ago, though not nearly long enough ago, not to participate in online oil debates. All noise, no signal.

Yamalube 2S. Don't mess up your 2-stroke.

Hi Darren,

I know it was used in 4stroke racing engines but didnt know it was used in 2strokes. I think i'll stick with the 'if its not broke, don't fix it' rule and carry on with my normal 2 stroke oil.

Have you taken a look through some of the build threads in the not so modern forum, theres an abundance of knowledge of tuned engines and probably some good thoughts on premix or autolube.

Cheers

Ian

Yep definitely 2 stroke.

I've sent the manufacturer a few questions.
So let's see what they say. The MX magazine was raving about it and how it doesn't gum up.

I'm going to strip this engine in 6-8 weeks so might give it a go . Guinea pig style and report back.

Thing is I'm nearly out on the old oil ( only a few cap fulls ) . Don't know if I should just add it or flush it out.

We ran this in our trials bikes. The Maxima oil unfortunately doesn't have the perfumed smell as Klotz and some of the other castor based oils of the 60s and 70s. Castor based oils do increase carbon deposits in the top end over time.

So do you think they might be exaggerating when they say this 927 has stopped the build up ?

Maxima makes great products and sponsored my son when he was riding. We got new bikes every year and seldom tore one down during that period. As I recall, the importer that my son rode for was also the importer for Maxima. We both still ride and still run this in the bikes. I think it's pretty clean premix, not to be confused with injector oil.

this stuff is decent and has the smell . I use it in my weedeater and chainsaw.
https://www.chapmoto.com/blendzall-2-cycle-racing-castor-lube.html?sku=267-550461&gclid=CjwKCAjw682TBhATEiwA9crl30hJVTnxS-pXsf_JR3Xrl_RHw0mi0kE5LFt5z8bHU3wh0FwPI1jscxoCGP4QAvD_BwE

Well, not at all what I (and I think many) thought you were talking about :gulp:

Aaaaah ok thank you. So we're happy with the people at Maximo.
That's a good sign.

But the last bit of your comment brings us back to my one of my original questions." It's a pretty clean premix, not to be confused with injector oil". Do we consider an autolube to be the same as an injector because it's not premix ?
If not would the castor oil give it the same issues as an injector ?

I looked at it in more detail and this is what I read.

A description of the autolube system was provided in the workshop manual when it was introduced (available at Scooterhelp

The automatic lubrication device for oil/petrol mixture (autolube) has been designed by Piaggio to ensure the perfect lubrication of the two stroke engine at all speeds and for any use condition. Prior to the autolube (or for engines that have subsequently disabled autolube or are using a different carburetor), a 2% mixture in the petrol is used, this works well for full power operation but caused issues with poorer fuel economy and increased engine carbonisation.

The 2% oil ratio was used in order to ensure adequate lubrication during the most hard use conditions i.e. at high rpm and at maximum loading. However tests have shown that a lower quantity of oil is sufficient and more convenient when using the vehicle at lower rpm and with the limited throttle opening. In other words different engine operating conditions need different quantities of oil.

The autolube adjusts oil mixture in line with the variable conditions of use the vehicle is subjected to. It does so by dosing the oil quantity in relation to the rpm and throttle position. This reduces oil contamination of the spark plug, cylinder, piston and exhaust system and also improves economy.

How it Works

A Vespa is equipped with two different tanks, one for fuel (1) and one for 2 stroke oil (2). In order to ensure oil in the tank is sufficiently full a sight glass level is provided (3). This is glass is normally full of oil and becomes empty when oil is at the reserve level. When the glass is approximately half full (depending on the position of the scooter) the oil tank will accept a full 1 litres.

The petrol (gasoline) is conveyed to the carburetor by means of the normal gravity system. The oil (5) is sucked by a oil pump piston (P) whose stroke is governed by the radial position of a sliding pin on the inclined cog. The pin position itself is controlled by the throttle position by means of a lever attached to the throttle cable.

Each position of the throttle twist grip corresponds therefore to a specific position of the sliding pin and therefore the piston stroke. This means that the quantity of the oil sucked changes according to the throttle opening (pump stroke) and engine revolutions (rotations of the pump).

What did you think I was talking about ?

All I know about castor oil is what I learnt from old cartoons.

Yea there seem to be a lot of company's that make oils with that lovely smell. But they have the gumming problem.
If this Maximo HAS solved the gumming problem then that should make it another oil choice available to us. One that can be used regularly that actually give us better lubrication. The smell being a nice added bonus.

But hey I'm by no means an expert and I could be wrong .I'm just putting it out there to see what everyone else thinks. Ticking the boxes.
That and the autolube question.

Sod it im going to try it.
I'm going to pour it straight into the oil tank ( not removing the very small amount of the original oil first ). Run it for say 8-10 weeks.
Then when it's stripped down have a look to see if it's worked.
That should be a long enough period to show something if it's not.
If I'm out and it seems tight or the autolube is not working properly then I can just pour it straight in the tank.

It's not injector oil

Premix mixes with the gas and goes in your tank, auto lube meters the oil into the fuel stream. I may be wrong, but thinking premix is more viscous than injector oil. Hate to seize a bike over the issue. Anyone with a more definitive explanation, please pile on