OP
Thu, 23 Jun 2022 15:49:38 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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Thu, 23 Jun 2022 15:49:38 +0000 quote
So the journey to rebuild the engine has begun…

Question to the crowd, does this clutch basket look a little tired? Can I grind down those valleys? Would it help? Or just leave it?
Affect the clutch performance?
Thu, 23 Jun 2022 16:09:39 +0000

Lucky
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Lucky
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Thu, 23 Jun 2022 16:09:39 +0000 quote
108 wrote:
So the journey to rebuild the engine has begun…

Question to the crowd, does this clutch basket look a little tired? Can I grind down those valleys? Would it help? Or just leave it?
*I have no idea what the correct answer is *, but I'd think that would interfere with the plates moving up and down, so I'd guess grind down or replace. Also, looking at pictures of new baskets, they don't have that.
Thu, 23 Jun 2022 20:29:40 +0000

The Dude
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The Dude
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Thu, 23 Jun 2022 20:29:40 +0000 quote
that clutch basket is whack, get a replacement
Fri, 24 Jun 2022 01:39:44 +0000

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Fri, 24 Jun 2022 01:39:44 +0000 quote
That's scrap, that basket
Fri, 24 Jun 2022 01:40:43 +0000

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Fri, 24 Jun 2022 01:40:43 +0000 quote
Great chance to move to straight cut primaries….
OP
Fri, 24 Jun 2022 07:50:17 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Fri, 24 Jun 2022 07:50:17 +0000 quote
Ah well, was hoping to save it, one less part to order.

Looks like I'll be shopping

Looks like the main bearings need to be replaced too.

What's the loctite used for rubber seals?
Fri, 24 Jun 2022 16:27:46 +0000

Lucky
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Lucky
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Fri, 24 Jun 2022 16:27:46 +0000 quote
I use Loctite 680 retaining compound and it hasn't failed me yet.
OP
Sat, 25 Jun 2022 04:59:07 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Sat, 25 Jun 2022 04:59:07 +0000 quote
chandlerman wrote:
I use Loctite 680 retaining compound and it hasn't failed me yet.
Righteo!

Cleaning has commenced…

Glad I could source bearings locally…

The small frame is growing on me
OP
Sun, 26 Jun 2022 11:05:17 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Sun, 26 Jun 2022 11:05:17 +0000 quote
Another silly question… I see there's sooo many kickstart gears… what's the difference? The one I pulled from the engine has 15/10 teeth… but mine is a 50s engine… is it wrong? I see some crazy marks on it…

I thought 50s is 12/10 or 12/12… what's the difference? To match the Christmas tree set of gears?
This looks like it's had better days. Looks like a grinder has attacked it
OP
Fri, 01 Jul 2022 09:26:27 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Fri, 01 Jul 2022 09:26:27 +0000 quote
So I've committed to the egig 170…

There's probably better kits out there, but the deal breaker was that the egig can be installed with zero changes to the crankcase and frame.

Others either have to have the cases dremel-ed or the frame has to be cut (for my 50s)

I always wanted a direct intake too…
Had to file the plate tabs down… apparently it's a thing… makes the tolerances nice and tight…
Clear coated the unisex exhaust
Fri, 01 Jul 2022 11:45:58 +0000

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Fri, 01 Jul 2022 11:45:58 +0000 quote
Egig 170 seems like a good cylinder. It's only downfall is the weirdo conrod lenght required on the crank. Remember to take your time to tune the carb right and also to run the cylinder in carefully.

Don't be afraid of modding the cases or the frame. It's more fun to go all-in
OP
Fri, 01 Jul 2022 12:30:18 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Fri, 01 Jul 2022 12:30:18 +0000 quote
FINYoshi wrote:
Egig 170 seems like a good cylinder. It's only downfall is the weirdo conrod lenght required on the crank. Remember to take your time to tune the carb right and also to run the cylinder in carefully.

Don't be afraid of modding the cases or the frame. It's more fun to go all-in
Yeah, I don't mind dremelling new SIP smallframe cases (the egig needs grinding down a small part of the case, but you won't be able to tell)… the original case, I'm less wanting to do that, and after seeing the rotary pad being like new too.

Im more than happy to grind and weld away at my PX cases… im less precious about those.

I think at the end of the day I do want the option to go back to stock if I wanted.

The long conrod is strange, but makes sense, no cylinder spigot… so all the movement happens higher up. Kinda smart, but damn it isn't cheap.
Fri, 01 Jul 2022 16:28:25 +0000

Lucky
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Fri, 01 Jul 2022 16:28:25 +0000 quote
I'm very much here for this!

I'm eyeing the egig 170 for my smallie, so I'll be interested to see what you think of it. The way I look at the cost is that the cylinder+crank cost is really not all that different than any other, it's just more crank-heavy than than most, basically the opposite of the "cylinder costs $500 and the crank costs $300" we're used to.

Are you going with the full circle or bell crank?

And where'd you order from? SIP is out of stock, or was yesterday when I looked.
OP
Fri, 01 Jul 2022 17:21:14 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Fri, 01 Jul 2022 17:21:14 +0000 quote
chandlerman wrote:
I'm very much here for this!

I'm eyeing the egig 170 for my smallie, so I'll be interested to see what you think of it. The way I look at the cost is that the cylinder+crank cost is really not all that different than any other, it's just more crank-heavy than than most, basically the opposite of the "cylinder costs $500 and the crank costs $300" we're used to.

Are you going with the full circle or bell crank?

And where'd you order from? SIP is out of stock, or was yesterday when I looked.
So… I have all the parts with me via SIP, bar 1 item (which is probably the most important one…) which is the cylinder… lol

The whole world is waiting for them, and I messaged Erich at Egig and he said they're coming… but I have a feeling it's gonna be a bit of a wait…

Anyways, unfortunately you have to use the long conrod crank, and as far as I know there's only the full circle one available with a 54mm stroke.

In theory you could make your own crank, there's the conrod sold separately (but I think it's just sold out last time I looked).

All the parts are super sporadic…

if the crank is available, the intake is sold out. If the intake and crank is available, the exhaust is sold out (well I only wanted the unisex…)

But I'm glad I'm slowly building it… because I'm just warming up with getting to know the insides of the smallframe…

But loving it so far… the parts from Egig (clutch, intake, crank) are amazing build (seems like half of it is from Fabbri), and the way the engine is designed, I think it's smarter than a largeframe…

Super excited about this build
OP
Sat, 02 Jul 2022 15:25:23 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Sat, 02 Jul 2022 15:25:23 +0000 quote
Some slow progress, maybe it's because I'm guessing half the time… lol
Rebuilt the primary, clutch basket… The DRT basket screws unfortunately broke in the basket… but the gear is what's needed
Pressing in the basket, didn't go so well first time… I had a gap I wanted to shim between the basket and bearing… had to reluctantly hammer it out and give it another go
Looks the business, fingers crossed it's any good
Will change the drive shaft bearing for a sealed one… need to find it in the mountain of bearing parts…
OP
Mon, 04 Jul 2022 07:35:09 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Mon, 04 Jul 2022 07:35:09 +0000 quote
Drive shaft bearing swapped out.

At this point, I'm thinking of selling my PX because the smallframe is way more fun to work on (famous last words… I'm not looking forward to adjusting the gear selector cables…)

All the bearings are the same size… the cases are way easier to heat up to remove and install the bearings
Mon, 04 Jul 2022 08:53:25 +0000

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Mon, 04 Jul 2022 08:53:25 +0000 quote
Yep, the engine is nice. Its just the literal small frame that it sits in

Also the clutch is way nicer since it is not attached directly on the end of the crank.
OP
Fri, 08 Jul 2022 13:15:30 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Fri, 08 Jul 2022 13:15:30 +0000 quote
As we wait for a fist brawl on the other channel.

Back to some normal programming here.

Small updates today
SKF oil seal… honestly feels a little over kill but hey, might as well go all out
Crank is pretty sweet, not sure who makes them, but for straightness the needle hardly moved at all. Better than worb5 crank and SIP cranks… those 2 were good, but was out 0.01-0.02mm
Woodruff key was fun to install in the crank… the cutout definitely feels more robust as it seems deeper. Had to tap it in with a small drift. No tab washer for the EGIG crank… big wavy washer and loctite the was to go
Holding tool looks a little crazy… but I'll use anything to get it buttoned up properly
Fri, 08 Jul 2022 14:35:39 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Fri, 08 Jul 2022 14:35:39 +0000 quote
this looks to be a fun one to follow! it will be interesting to see how you get on. yes the smallframe motors are awesome, the go fast parts supply for them is great and oddly cheaper than the bigger engines for what you get.

biggest downfall = small fuel tanks
OP
Fri, 08 Jul 2022 15:20:36 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Fri, 08 Jul 2022 15:20:36 +0000 quote
sdjohn wrote:
this looks to be a fun one to follow! it will be interesting to see how you get on. yes the smallframe motors are awesome, the go fast parts supply for them is great and oddly cheaper than the bigger engines for what you get.

biggest downfall = small fuel tanks
Agree, the tank is tiny!

There seem to be a few aftermarket tanks which use the storage space in front of it, but not a fan of that, kinda like the plastic compartment.

Fuel economy on the phbh is slightly better, hope it'll help balance things out
Fri, 08 Jul 2022 15:31:11 +0000

Lucky
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Lucky
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Fri, 08 Jul 2022 15:31:11 +0000 quote
I'm going to see what I can do to expand the tank on my smallie once I get going with it. If that's not an option, I guess I'll just stop for gas every ten miles.
OP
Fri, 08 Jul 2022 15:43:25 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Fri, 08 Jul 2022 15:43:25 +0000 quote
chandlerman wrote:
I'm going to see what I can do to expand the tank on my smallie once I get going with it. If that's not an option, I guess I'll just stop for gas every ten miles.
I see a lot of people use plastic Jerry cans.

Strapped to the leg shield and helmet hanger area. I was imagining I'll be using that in the future
Fri, 08 Jul 2022 15:53:05 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Fri, 08 Jul 2022 15:53:05 +0000 quote
yeah I strapped a jerry can to a plate mounted inside the spare carrier - it's worth it because you will run out of fuel
Fri, 08 Jul 2022 17:15:22 +0000

Ossessionato
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Fri, 08 Jul 2022 17:15:22 +0000 quote
VMC got you covered with a 7L plastic tank…
Fri, 08 Jul 2022 17:34:18 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Fri, 08 Jul 2022 17:34:18 +0000 quote
That's awesome, it must be newer. Never saw that when I was looking.
Fri, 08 Jul 2022 17:36:13 +0000

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Fri, 08 Jul 2022 17:36:13 +0000 quote
Yeah, it's a recent "release" for both smallies (V series and PK). They have it listed for 140€ on their site (avotecnica.com)…
Fri, 08 Jul 2022 17:57:26 +0000

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Fri, 08 Jul 2022 17:57:26 +0000 quote
VMC has been coming up with some good parts quite recently.

Do you know when you will get your hands on the cylinder?
Fri, 08 Jul 2022 21:24:24 +0000

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Fri, 08 Jul 2022 21:24:24 +0000 quote
there it is, took a bit to find it. I even replaced this can with one a bit bigger on the same mount.

Fri, 08 Jul 2022 21:54:08 +0000

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Fri, 08 Jul 2022 21:54:08 +0000 quote
SaFiS wrote:
Yeah, it's a recent "release" for both smallies (V series and PK). They have it listed for 140€ on their site (avotecnica.com)…
140 euro is well worth it. It's WAY easier than fabbing up your own! I think mine holds pretty close to 2 gallons?
OP
Sat, 09 Jul 2022 12:18:41 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Sat, 09 Jul 2022 12:18:41 +0000 quote
whodatschrome wrote:
140 euro is well worth it. It's WAY easier than fabbing up your own! I think mine holds pretty close to 2 gallons?
Looks great though, the self fab tank!
OP
Sat, 09 Jul 2022 12:21:45 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Sat, 09 Jul 2022 12:21:45 +0000 quote
Ok…

Any tips on closing the cases?

Failed on attempt 1.

Couldn't get the Xmas tree/primary to align up and the sealant ended up drying up…

How to slide the primary on? Do I have to spin the output shaft at the same time to align it?

I guess I have to heat up the flywheel bearing to get onto the crank too?
⚠️ Last edited by 108 on Sat, 09 Jul 2022 12:24:12 +0000; edited 1 time
OP
Sat, 09 Jul 2022 12:23:49 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Sat, 09 Jul 2022 12:23:49 +0000 quote
FINYoshi wrote:
VMC has been coming up with some good parts quite recently.

Do you know when you will get your hands on the cylinder?
Apparently Aug now… I have a sneaky feeling it might be sept….

EGIG just posted on FB of an update…

More material on the cylinder head, piston ring pins moved on the piston to avoid the boost ports and something else but I can't remember.
Sat, 09 Jul 2022 12:28:21 +0000

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Sat, 09 Jul 2022 12:28:21 +0000 quote
whodatschrome wrote:
140 euro is well worth it. It's WAY easier than fabbing up your own! I think mine holds pretty close to 2 gallons?
That is awesome. I've got a spare small frame tank. I'm tempted to send it your way with a wad of cash!
Sat, 09 Jul 2022 13:59:46 +0000

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Sat, 09 Jul 2022 13:59:46 +0000 quote
swiss1939 wrote:
That is awesome. I've got a spare small frame tank. I'm tempted to send it your way with a wad of cash!
It was a labor of love to build, and i only have so much love to spread around. I wouldn't want to build another. But if i did, i think i'd try to make it closer to 3 gallons? There's a lot of wasted space under the bench seat. I could have welded an extension to the top of the tank to fill that void.
Sun, 10 Jul 2022 20:50:06 +0000

Lucky
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Sun, 10 Jul 2022 20:50:06 +0000 quote
whodatschrome wrote:
It was a labor of love to build, and i only have so much love to spread around. I wouldn't want to build another. But if i did, i think i'd try to make it closer to 3 gallons? There's a lot of wasted space under the bench seat. I could have welded an extension to the top of the tank to fill that void.
mmmm...three gallon tank...
⬆️    About 9w elapsed between posts    ⬇️
OP
Tue, 13 Sep 2022 11:07:42 +0000

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Tue, 13 Sep 2022 11:07:42 +0000 quote
We're back in business!

The 170 is in stock…!

Can't even remember what status I had gotten to though…
Ah yes… clutch installed and kicks over… but need to triple check everything
OP
Thu, 15 Sep 2022 12:48:47 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Thu, 15 Sep 2022 12:48:47 +0000 quote
Looks like I won't be able to work on it this weekend. Ups has a day hold up on the package.
Notice something missing?? Lol The unisex exhaust is actually pretty big…
Thu, 15 Sep 2022 13:35:58 +0000

Lucky
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Thu, 15 Sep 2022 13:35:58 +0000 quote
108 wrote:
Looks like I won't be able to work on it this weekend. Ups has a day hold up on the package.
Lookin' good!

You're one of the lucky few who actually got one of the egig 170's from what I can tell. They were gone in under four hours after SIP marked them re-stocked. I suspect they sold out just on the backorders.

I'm right there with ya waiting for shipping, though, except that assuming UPS stays on track, I'll have my last package and be good-to-go this weekend.

And I still haven't quite wrapped my head around the geometry of the Quattrini exhaust and how it all is going to go together.
OP
Thu, 15 Sep 2022 14:11:40 +0000

Molto Verboso
PX 200
Joined: Wed, 25 May 2016 16:14:28 +0000
Posts: 1903

 
Molto Verboso
PX 200
Joined: Wed, 25 May 2016 16:14:28 +0000
Posts: 1903

Thu, 15 Sep 2022 14:11:40 +0000 quote
chandlerman wrote:
Lookin' good!

You're one of the lucky few who actually got one of the egig 170's from what I can tell. They were gone in under four hours after SIP marked them re-stocked. I suspect they sold out just on the backorders.

I'm right there with ya waiting for shipping, though, except that assuming UPS stays on track, I'll have my last package and be good-to-go this weekend.

And I still haven't quite wrapped my head around the geometry of the Quattrini exhaust and how it all is going to go together.
I was on back order too… but actually nothing happened! I was never charged by SIP, so I just made a new order anyways. I could cancel if needed.

Last piece of the puzzle…!

Your Quatrinni should be awesome fun! I'm looking forward to seeing it pieced together!!

Yeah the exhaust is actually kinda crazy wrapping around the wheel. Can't wait to see yours.

I was worried about the frame on mine, there's like a brace that runs to the side panels… hopefully it'll clear it all without any problems.
Thu, 15 Sep 2022 14:18:59 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 8715
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 8715
Location: Nashville
Thu, 15 Sep 2022 14:18:59 +0000 quote
Yeah, I'm not touching the frame until I know that the motor is in the bike and all fits. I don't want to be hammering and cutting on a freshly painted frame. That'd just suck.

*Allegedly* everything will fit without frame alterations, but allegedly, the cylinder fit OG 125t cases without "major modifications." If what I did wasn't Major Modifications, I'd like to know their definition of the term.

If I had the resources, *cough*proper CNC*cough*, I'd have relocated the case bolt holes around the cylinder to give me increased sealing surface. I actually contemplating trying it, but ultimately decided it was riskier than just hoping 2mm of surface will be adequate.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what you think of the egig 170, though. It would definitely have been my preferred route if it was an option, rather than the decidedly more hardcore approach I wound up taking.
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