Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:31 am

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Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:31 am linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
*Allegedly* everything will fit without frame alterations, but allegedly, the cylinder fit OG 125t cases without "major modifications." If what I did wasn't Major Modifications, I'd like to know their definition of the term.

If I had the resources, *cough*proper CNC*cough*, I'd have relocated the case bolt holes around the cylinder to give me increased sealing surface. I actually contemplating trying it, but ultimately decided it was riskier than just hoping 2mm of surface will be adequate.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what you think of the egig 170, though. It would definitely have been my preferred route if it was an option, rather than the decidedly more hardcore approach I wound up taking.
I actually made an order for the Malossi 135 (or whatever it is) but ended up cancelling because I/SIP wasn't sure if the Reed manifold would fit in a v50 series 1.

And I had a gut feeling I'd be cutting into the frame to fit any matching exhaust (maybe the unisex would've worked, who knows…)

I hope the 170 doesn't suck… from FB vids, seems to be good. But again, who knows…

Never say no to a Quatrinni kit though, dream kit level stuff… always wanted to get one.

I'm also a little worried about my electrics too… the wiring harness is like 3 wires… surely can't be that simple.

Not looking forward to installing the vape and gear selector cables
Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:22 am

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Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:22 am linkquote
Electrics are easy (for me, at least)

If you have challenges, hit me up.
Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:45 am

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Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:45 am linkquote
Curious if you need a special exhaust or mounting flange for it, or the carb to make the egig 170 work with piston ported and fit in the frame with standard mounting for everything?

Asking for a friend with a v90 waiting to get this kit thrown on it in the future...
Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:30 am

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Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:30 am linkquote
swiss1939 wrote:
Curious if you need a special exhaust or mounting flange for it, or the carb to make the egig 170 work with piston ported and fit in the frame with standard mounting for everything?

Asking for a friend with a v90 waiting to get this kit thrown on it in the future...
Hoping the carb will fit in the frame!

There's 2 different intake manifolds for the 170. One for the v50 etc, and one for pk bikes.

So I imagine it should fit, if it's that specific.

Apparently with the unisex exhaust, it's suppose to fit. That's the selling point of the exhaust.

if not might have ordered the mamba instead!

Time will tell!
Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:35 am

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Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:35 am linkquote
Smallie experts!!

Having problems with the rear hub alignment.

See photo for reference.

It seems like a 2 part construction if I'm not mistaken.

But the holes seems to have shifted… to the point I can't thread the bolts in properly… anyway to move them back?

The red arrowed hole is the only one which I can thread the bolt successfully

I took the wheel off previously without any problems, so not sure what happened..!



Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:28 am

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Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:28 am linkquote
loosen the small locator nut enough to see if you can slide the outer back into alignment enough to get the 4 bolts in. then make sure you tighten the locator nut before you put the wheel on!
Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:30 am

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Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:30 am linkquote
swiss1939 wrote:
loosen the small locator nut enough to see if you can slide the outer back into alignment enough to get the 4 bolts in. then make sure you tighten the locator nut before you put the wheel on!
I loosened the small locating nut…

The other parts don't move though… wondering if there's a method to freeing the 2 sections?
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:31 am

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Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:31 am linkquote
108 wrote:
I loosened the small locating nut…

The other parts don't move though… wondering if there's a method to freeing the 2 sections?
Sometimes the drum and hub will fuse themselves together from corrosion. On my V90, I squirted some WD-40 in the holes and then smacked it with a plastic hammer. Smacked meaning, tap-tap-tap a bit hard. That separated the two.
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:34 am

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Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:34 am linkquote
I had similar issues the first time I ever pulled the hub off my VBB. I didn't use WD-40 like Nomad, but I did use a hammer to pretty good effect.
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:52 am

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Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:52 am linkquote
Just make sure that the locator pin is all the way out before hammering. Mine was all chewed up and looked like a little rotten baby tooth. That was real fun getting that out.
Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:00 am

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Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:00 am linkquote
Agree with nomad. You can see the center raised inner hub section is rusted. It's fused to the outer cause it's a snug fit by default. Pb blaster or wd-40, maybe some heat and a rubber mallet carful not to bend anything. It will eventually work off.

Then just clean all the surface up with 320 grit and reassemble.
Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:00 am

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Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:00 am linkquote
nomadinsiam wrote:
Sometimes the drum and hub will fuse themselves together from corrosion. On my V90, I squirted some WD-40 in the holes and then smacked it with a plastic hammer. Smacked meaning, tap-tap-tap a bit hard. That separated the two.
Not sure where to bash to be honest…

Maybe install the bolt and evenly hit those?
Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:03 am

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Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:03 am linkquote
Hit the center section right in the middle of the hub. Then also try tapping the reverse side along the seam where the outer and inner meet. You can also try using a screw driver to lightly pry back and forth. But this method you really don't want to pry too hard cause you will warp things. Just keep banging around all sides and it will eventually start to walk off side to side.
Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:08 am

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Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:08 am linkquote
the seam between inner and outer is what is rusted and seized together causing issues removing.


highlighted the seam with circle in image below.



Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:11 am

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Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:11 am linkquote
Got it… know what you mean…

Will give it a try.

Looks fused pretty bad, but wonder how it shifted before??

Blast it with heat? But the outside looks rattle canned…
Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:56 pm

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Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:56 pm linkquote
I hit the outside rounded edge of the drum alternating back and forth across the drum.
Fri Sep 16, 2022 7:49 pm

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Fri Sep 16, 2022 7:49 pm linkquote
Looks like it's fused pretty good… it's not bugged one bit.
Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:31 am

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Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:31 am linkquote
Never been so excited to see the UPS man! He came through and the cylinder arrived today.

But something is wrong with SIP… box was huge and I thought there would be some extra goodies from egig.

But no… a ton of empty space, but the parcel was 7kgs

Anyways… will post some photos later.

First 2 hours playing around with it, definitely not plug and play… Erich's definition of grinding away 2mm is a bit of an understatement… more like a huge 5mm gouge!!
Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:15 am

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Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:15 am linkquote
108 wrote:
First 2 hours playing around with it, definitely not plug and play… Erich's definition of grinding away 2mm is a bit of an understatement… more like a huge 5mm gouge!!
I feel ya. I spent most of last weekend grinding away on my cases and cylinder for a top end that's sold as, "It combines maximum displacement, high everyday usability and a wide power band to fit the original engine case of V50, PV, ET3, PK."
Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:02 am

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Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:02 am linkquote
Er, so here was the plan…


Looks more than 2mm just dry fitting the cylinder…


Er, notice something missing…? That looks more than 2mm mate


Fits… the Egig logo lol

Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:00 am

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Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:00 am linkquote
108 wrote:
Er, so here was the plan…
Seems to be a lot of that roaming around in Smallie land these days.
Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:47 am

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Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:47 am linkquote
Slow progress on the build…

Feels like it took forever to cut and grind the cylinder cover to fit the massive intake. Had to cut around the exhaust area too. Lots of customisation.

Measured the squish, ended up at 1.35mm, with 1.3-1.5mm being the recommended amount.

The gasket doesn't go over the piston, so have to install the gasket, then the wrist pin. But everything is machined perfectly on the meteor piston that it's a breeze to install.


Tried the 0.3mm gasket. Ended up around 1.2mm squish. Didn't double check, obviously not right


Not quite CM's ports galore… more subdued here…


Loving the intake though


Piston is fairly large


Not quite there with the hole in the cover


Earlier dry fit…

Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:23 am

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Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:23 am linkquote
You are rapidly closing in on the point where you can see how the lump fits the frame and will there be need to cut anything to make room for intake.

Good job!
Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:35 am

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Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:35 am linkquote
so confused as they claim its very minimal grinding. I can't see how they over exaggerated that much!

It's one thing for a big corporation to white lie like that, but another thing with these highly niche small companies.
Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:29 am

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Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:29 am linkquote
Lookin' good!

I was amazed that my motor fit into the frame with no issues, wiggling, or persuasion required. I was certain I was going to have to choose violence to get it in there, but the closest I came was pulling out the intake buffer so the new, larger intake would fit.

I'm looking forward to the First Start Video
Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:29 am

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Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:29 am linkquote
swiss1939 wrote:
so confused as they claim its very minimal grinding. I can't see how they over exaggerated that much!
Compared to my Quattrini, that *is* minimal grinding.
Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:38 am

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Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:38 am linkquote
minimal grinding to me would mean cut some of the fins off the cylinder.. not irreversibly cut up the case.

Wondering if mounting the kit with ports reversed would make any affect on this issue?
Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:27 pm

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Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:27 pm linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
Compared to my Quattrini, that *is* minimal grinding.
I thought I was just grinding down a lip!

I don't mind doing it, but someone could've said… lol

I'm looking forward to the first start too! Been a bit slow past few days… double checking everything. Especially the sealing surfaces… everything isn't quite smooth…

Leak down test next,

Last edited by 108 on Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:09 am; edited 1 time in total
Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:31 pm

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Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:31 pm linkquote
swiss1939 wrote:
so confused as they claim its very minimal grinding. I can't see how they over exaggerated that much!

It's one thing for a big corporation to white lie like that, but another thing with these highly niche small companies.
I complain, but it's actually not too bad… so there's not too much work on the engine cases, most of the work is actually the external stuff.

Spent a lot of time on the cylinder cowl, bending and cutting the spacer/bracket.

Super happy someone actually created this kit… very interesting design where the crank case is just a hole for the crank to stick out, and the piston is pretty wide at around 63mm


Making it up again taking inspiration from Egig's fibreglass cover…


A mix of what the instructions say to do… and mixing it with some improvements I imagine??? The hole that big must be less effective surely??? Any fluid dynamic engineers here??


Referencing Egig's updated 170 fibreglass cowl… not going to be buying any new parts anytime soon!!

Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:42 am

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Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:42 am linkquote
I'll have to fabricate my own shroud spacer, but hadn't given it much thought. Your pictures instantly crystalized it in my mind, though. Too bad for me I'm not much for fabrication...

And you have to remember that the air has to be able to flow, and so a bigger exit area underneath is that much more air that can potentially be pumped through.

What I'm wondering about his how effective the fan can even be with close to two inches of clearance between it and the guard.
Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:36 am

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Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:36 am linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
I'll have to fabricate my own shroud spacer, but hadn't given it much thought. Your pictures instantly crystalized it in my mind, though. Too bad for me I'm not much for fabrication...

And you have to remember that the air has to be able to flow, and so a bigger exit area underneath is that much more air that can potentially be pumped through.

What I'm wondering about his how effective the fan can even be with close to two inches of clearance between it and the guard.
Never thought about that with the quatrinni… Is there anything pre-fabed? Any idea what other people are using?

I got lazy with the spacer… I knew marking the holes and bending it would be the biggest pita… even cheating, it was still a pain.

I was thinking, would it be like a straw? more air if it's narrower and tighter? Like a funnel? I have no idea though… lol. bigger exit makes sense though… maybe there's a limit to how big?
Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:57 am

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Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:57 am linkquote
The fan is really a centrifugal pump with the flywheel acting as the impeller. So it needs to have a tight fit so the air isn't just blowing out and away, but instead being pushed across the cylinder.

Ginch had a thread on this topic a couple of years(?) ago, and you can learn more than ever wanted to know with a quick google search.
Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:53 am

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Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:53 am linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
The fan is really a centrifugal pump with the flywheel acting as the impeller. So it needs to have a tight fit so the air isn't just blowing out and away, but instead being pushed across the cylinder.

Ginch had a thread on this topic a couple of years(?) ago, and you can learn more than ever wanted to know with a quick google search.
Ah get what you mean about the 2 inches of clearance now…

Ah that must be the "stuck out" fins on the egig high flow that makes it cooler, the fins seem closer to the shroud, but still fits without mods.
Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:25 am

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Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:25 am linkquote
Bad news update…

Failed 3 leak down tests, all coming from the cylinder head.

Theres no o ring and it's reliant on sealant… which doesn't help

I have a sneaky suspicion that it's from the base, up the cylinder stud… that's where it's loudest…

More testing tomorrow


Such a pita


Exhaust blocker needs the gasket to help out with thickness

Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:36 am

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Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:36 am linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
The fan is really a centrifugal pump with the flywheel acting as the impeller. So it needs to have a tight fit so the air isn't just blowing out and away, but instead being pushed across the cylinder.

Ginch had a thread on this topic a couple of years(?) ago, and you can learn more than ever wanted to know with a quick google search.
CM! Need your help!

Not getting any spark with the vape ac

Does it need to be connected to the regulator to work? (Just for engine starts??)
Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:57 am

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Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:57 am linkquote
No need. Will give spark without regulator too.
Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:06 am

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Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:06 am linkquote
FINYoshi wrote:
No need. Will give spark without regulator too.
Then what gives?? The stator can only be installed 1 way right?

I'm out of ideas.

I'm using a B8ES, shouldn't be a problem right??
Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:26 am

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Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:26 am linkquote
According to manual, brown wire to CDI frame and the click connector with three wires should be enough for spark. Make sure the blue wire coming out of the CDI to kill switch is not grounded.

Brown makes sure grounding of CDI is good, red one delivers AC from the ignition coil and white is the signal from pickup sensor. White and red could also be the other way around since I don't have my own vape yet.

Measure the AC voltage from the red and white wires when you spin the flywheel with a drill. One should be 30-100V AC and other something like 0,5-3V AC

B8ES is fine.
Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:21 am

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Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:21 am linkquote
108 wrote:
CM! Need your help!

Not getting any spark with the vape ac

Does it need to be connected to the regulator to work? (Just for engine starts??)
Like Yoshi said, just need the red & white, plus brown to ground. You also need a solid ground from the coil bracket to the case.

One strange phenomena I observed yesterday was that when I grounded my plug to the case to confirm I was getting spark, I got a very weak spark and it wasn't enough to trigger my timing light. I had to ground it to the cylinder head to get a proper spark. That one genuinely puzzles me.

The output side (AC or DC) doesn't matter. The stator & CDI are the only relevant bits for chasing spark issues.

Do you have your kill switch wire hooked up? If so, I'd disconnect that while troubleshooting.
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PX 200
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Posts: 927

 
Addicted
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 927

Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:00 am linkquote
Thanks for the pointers gents…

I didn't think it needed the regulator to start. But ended up second guessing myself as you're literally connecting 3 wires to start the motor.

Started trouble shooting with what you guys mentioned… checked everything. Still nothing.

Then checked for earths and the mount for the CDI wasn't earthing (surely not). Which is strange because I have the same mounting kit (different shape) on the PX.

So have spark!!

But still doesn't start… plug is bone dry. Compression is good, the piston ring seal is crazy tight.

the fuel is pretty old, so will end up swapping it out.

But something tells me it's a timing issue… have the stator set right bang in the middle. Should at least start?

CM, where abouts do you have the timing set at?
chandlerman wrote:
One strange phenomena I observed yesterday was that when I grounded my plug to the case to confirm I was getting spark, I got a very weak spark and it wasn't enough to trigger my timing light. I had to ground it to the cylinder head to get a proper spark. That one genuinely puzzles me.

Do you have your kill switch wire hooked up? If so, I'd disconnect that while troubleshooting.
Was the shock attached? Thinking would closer to the frame have a better ground?

Yeah the kill switch is disconnected… just a little green wire (no where near the frame) to earth to stop the engine… that's if I can get it started!!
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