OP
Tue, 25 Oct 2022 15:09:56 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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Tue, 25 Oct 2022 15:09:56 +0000 quote
chandlerman wrote:
You might need a shock spacer. The SIP shock was shorter than the OG shock, but lucky for me I had a spacer on hand.
The rubber spacer at the top of the shock?

I ended up using the Egig adapter which shifts the shock backwards. But if I'm not mistaken, it's a stock shock length with a rubber mount at the top.
chandlerman wrote:
All depends on which go-fast parts you're buying, I think. My Quattrini is the most expensive scooter part I've ever bought, hands down.
Yeah I think when you're hitting top tier stuff, your wallet will be emptying pretty fast… kinda envious of the Q kit.

You need to go all out and get quattrini cases…

But I'm betting it's also the fastest scooter you have in your fleet.
Tue, 25 Oct 2022 16:26:12 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
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Tue, 25 Oct 2022 16:26:12 +0000 quote
108 wrote:
The rubber spacer at the top of the shock?
No, a shock spacer that sits between the shock and the rubber mounting buffer. They come in numerous lengths to match up pretty much any shock and ride height.
108 wrote:
Yeah I think when you're hitting top tier stuff, your wallet will be emptying pretty fast… kinda envious of the Q kit.

You need to go all out and get quattrini cases…
It was an aggressive choice, and not really what I started out attempting, but since all the cheap alternatives were on backorder, I just went for it.

And at this point, my cases are fine. They don't do anything but hold the crank and gearbox, after all.
108 wrote:
But I'm betting it's also the fastest scooter you have in your fleet.
It is definitely that! I thought the GL was fast at 27 HP, but this is a whole 'nother level.
OP
Wed, 26 Oct 2022 04:37:57 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Wed, 26 Oct 2022 04:37:57 +0000 quote
chandlerman wrote:
No, a shock spacer that sits between the shock and the rubber mounting buffer. They come in numerous lengths to match up pretty much any shock and ride height.
Hmmm, know why you mean, I wonder if I need a taller spacer? You ended up installing the newer SIP shock?
chandlerman wrote:
And at this point, my cases are fine. They don't do anything but hold the crank and gearbox, after all.
Famous last words…
chandlerman wrote:
It is definitely that! I thought the GL was fast at 27 HP, but this is a whole 'nother level.
Yeah $ per level of crazy makes it a bargain.
OP
Wed, 26 Oct 2022 07:55:05 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Wed, 26 Oct 2022 07:55:05 +0000 quote
Just found out there is no spacer on my rear shock…

Any ideas on normal length? 30mm?
Wed, 26 Oct 2022 13:07:57 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
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Wed, 26 Oct 2022 13:07:57 +0000 quote
108 wrote:
Just found out there is no spacer on my rear shock…

Any ideas on normal length? 30mm?
With the SIP Performance rear shock, I needed about a 10mm spacer to get it back up into range. Not much, but it's no longer low-riding.
OP
Wed, 26 Oct 2022 13:53:04 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Wed, 26 Oct 2022 13:53:04 +0000 quote
chandlerman wrote:
With the SIP Performance rear shock, I needed about a 10mm spacer to get it back up into range. Not much, but it's no longer low-riding.
Ah got you.

Does it come with a longer spacer?

Is it this one?



Wed, 26 Oct 2022 13:53:58 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
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Wed, 26 Oct 2022 13:53:58 +0000 quote
Yes to the shock, no to the spacer. I just happened to have some in my Dragon Hoard.
OP
Wed, 26 Oct 2022 13:57:38 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Wed, 26 Oct 2022 13:57:38 +0000 quote
Urgh… another upgrade…

Never ending.

Then there's the seat, which I'm thinking of a mono style seat.

And then the disc brakes… which I'm trying to figure out which is the best option… Quarta??? Or Crimaz?? Or PK fork?? Lol

And I haven't even ridden it yet!!
Wed, 26 Oct 2022 14:11:21 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
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Wed, 26 Oct 2022 14:11:21 +0000 quote
108 wrote:
Then there's the seat, which I'm thinking of a mono style seat.
I'm rolling with the freebie seat on mine and it's perfect . Now, I just need to weld a nut to the frame for the rear seat post like FinYoshi does.
108 wrote:
And then the disc brakes… which I'm trying to figure out which is the best option… Quarta??? Or Crimaz?? Or PK fork?? Lol
I won't be swapping the fork, but I'm definitely starting to think hard about a front disc before I kill myself on this thing.
108 wrote:
And I haven't even ridden it yet!!
That's your first problem!
Wed, 26 Oct 2022 14:39:57 +0000

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Ossessionato
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Wed, 26 Oct 2022 14:39:57 +0000 quote
Smallframes shouldn't need a spacer (at least that's what it shows in the parts diagrams). Both smallies I did were fine with just the top mount and a spring washer. Shocks were 340mm (Carbone Sport) and 345mm (Carbone HiTech)...
OP
Wed, 26 Oct 2022 14:48:50 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Wed, 26 Oct 2022 14:48:50 +0000 quote
SaFiS wrote:
Smallframes shouldn't need a spacer (at least that's what it shows in the parts diagrams). Both smallies I did were fine with just the top mount and a spring washer. Shocks were 340mm (Carbone Sport) and 345mm (Carbone HiTech)...
Awesome, that's perfect to know.

Thanks for that.

Reassuring to know someone's using the carbone hitech shock, was considering it
OP
Wed, 26 Oct 2022 14:54:24 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Wed, 26 Oct 2022 14:54:24 +0000 quote
chandlerman wrote:
I'm rolling with the freebie seat on mine and it's perfect . Now, I just need to weld a nut to the frame for the rear seat post like FinYoshi does.

I won't be swapping the fork, but I'm definitely starting to think hard about a front disc before I kill myself on this thing.

That's your first problem!
The freebie seat shape is pretty good if I remember. The 2 up seat is a bit boring…

You'll be on a disc before me it seems

The start is coming!! This week for sure!!
OP
Tue, 01 Nov 2022 12:53:33 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Tue, 01 Nov 2022 12:53:33 +0000 quote
chandlerman wrote:
That's your first problem!
Need some wiring advice…

Managed to get it started again… (will post about it later)

But the electrics have died… no lights on start up…

Started trouble shooting. Thought it might have been the lights getting grounded. So found out the green wire was grounding and would break connection when you pressed the horn.

Took the handlebar switch out.

the grey and white wire (that goes to the horn) is also grounded too (touching the terminals there's a connection to ground)… how's that work???

There should be anything on that switch grounding right?

Also I'm not sure if I'm going mad, but the vape has an output of about 4v ac coming out of the blue wire… surely can't be right? I checked the stator… visually, couldn't see any problems with it. Blue to black connection has continuity…

Scoot starts with no problems though…
Wed, 02 Nov 2022 15:20:07 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
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Wed, 02 Nov 2022 15:20:07 +0000 quote
Sounds like you have the OG Balanced AC system. It takes a little bit of doing and some extra wires to convert over to a regulated setup. Or a new harness.

The horn, like the brake light, is a short-to-ground circuit. It's closed (shorted) by default, and when you open the switch, the path to ground is now through the light/horn, activating it. Disconnect the horn and remove the brake light bulb to start. You can also just not hook them up to the new system for now.

As to the Vape...

The AC out from the Vape should go directly to the regulator, nothing in between. Brown wire needs to be grounded to the bike, along with the base plate of the regulator, either bolted on or a ground wire attached to the spade connector. On older Vape's, the bike wouldn't run right if that brown wire wasn't grounded.

Check the output from the regulator, but if it's only 3-4V going in, I doubt it's going to be better coming out.

Are you working with a wiring diagram? If not, grab one. It'll be simple enough it should help clarify things. (as opposed to later or modern bikes)
OP
Wed, 02 Nov 2022 15:38:55 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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Wed, 02 Nov 2022 15:38:55 +0000 quote
chandlerman wrote:
Are you working with a wiring diagram? If not, grab one. It'll be simple enough it should help clarify things. (as opposed to later or modern bikes)
Ah dammit… I attached 2 photos, looks like they didn't upload properly…

It's weird… it was working before… then suddenly died…

Oh, forgot to mention. I linked a wire from the regulated power to the brake light switch, with Earth disconnected. so pressing the footbrake lit up the rear brake light… that was working


This is the handlebar switch (the red and green wires are behind… not pointing at the switch)


My wiring is 90% the same. I don't have a speedo light

Wed, 02 Nov 2022 16:19:53 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
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Wed, 02 Nov 2022 16:19:53 +0000 quote
That's the same handlebar switch as my Smallstate, I think. I disconnected the horn wire and the kill switch wire was blue(?), but definitely not green, so if that's wired into the AC side, that'd drag your voltage right down.

Brown/Purple on the lights are hi- and lo-beam out to the bulb. Red is power in. The two greens are one in from the junction box, one down to the horn. If you look at the back of the switch, you'll see the horn button is a normally-closed. you can cut that connection back to ground if you want to re-use the switch.

The three position switch is just on-off for the headlight.

You can re-use that switch, it just takes a couple cuts of the ground bus on the back of it.

Try connecting up the headlight next. That's the bulk of the load and will be a real test of the stator.
OP
Thu, 03 Nov 2022 02:14:02 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Thu, 03 Nov 2022 02:14:02 +0000 quote
chandlerman wrote:
That's the same handlebar switch as my Smallstate, I think. I disconnected the horn wire and the kill switch wire was blue(?), but definitely not green, so if that's wired into the AC side, that'd drag your voltage right down.

Brown/Purple on the lights are hi- and lo-beam out to the bulb. Red is power in. The two greens are one in from the junction box, one down to the horn. If you look at the back of the switch, you'll see the horn button is a normally-closed. you can cut that connection back to ground if you want to re-use the switch.

The three position switch is just on-off for the headlight.

You can re-use that switch, it just takes a couple cuts of the ground bus on the back of it.

Try connecting up the headlight next. That's the bulk of the load and will be a real test of the stator.
So that's the thing, red is kill switch (which is fine, doesn't matter the colour)
And it goes to the handlebar and has the Earth contact.

But I couldn't find a power wire, which I was assuming was green because there doesn't seem to be any other wires…

And from the wiring diagram there doesn't seem to be an obvious power too. So again, assuming it was the green wire
Thu, 03 Nov 2022 15:42:59 +0000

Lucky
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Thu, 03 Nov 2022 15:42:59 +0000 quote
You can steal the green horn wire to get power up to the headset, then run another wire down to the horn. I think that's what I did, and right now the horn isn't even on the bike. I'm not 100% certain about that, though.

Unfortunately, I didn't take any pictures while I was working, so I'll have to roll back out to the workshop and just review my as-built to say for sure.
OP
Fri, 04 Nov 2022 06:35:56 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Fri, 04 Nov 2022 06:35:56 +0000 quote
Looks like I'll be rewiring again…

Weird thing is, it was working before…
OP
Tue, 08 Nov 2022 14:04:43 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Tue, 08 Nov 2022 14:04:43 +0000 quote
Didn't want to hijack John's thread.

But sorry Ray, just got your crankshaft stand.

Fantastic build… such a good design with the bolts!! It can accommodate all the cranks I need to measure.

Top stuff!

Thanks a million.



⬆️    About 8w elapsed between posts    ⬇️
OP
Thu, 05 Jan 2023 06:24:54 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Thu, 05 Jan 2023 06:24:54 +0000 quote
Been a while since updating on this build.

Have a little video uploaded. But not that exciting.

However I ended up swapping the phbh30 for a VHSH.

Atomiser needs swapping as it's a little lean and I couldn't get it to idle properly, it's rideable, but not quite there.

BUT! Some info on the jetting for anyone dialling in the main jet.

So I'm using a 168 main. I thought going down to a 165 would help out and I could richen up the air mix screw.

But lo and behold, it would stall after about 500m. Thinking that's weird, kept riding. Nope, still no decent idle.

Took the spark plug out and it was soaked. Thought it was a stuck choke, or stuck float… but nope, normal.

Put the 168 back in. Took it for a ride… came back… spark plug was ok, definitely not soaked, but wiped it dry anyway.

Put the 165 back in.

Did this 3 TIMES to double check, rode the same road. Similar throttle positions in the riding. No crazy deviations.

But each time the 165 made the spark plug soaking wet and 1/4 throttle sucked ass…

So just goes to show that you can't listen to just the numbers.

The jets are the correct size, ask me how I know (ended up buying a steel pin gauge kit!! See below)…

Measured half a dozen times to check. Can't be too anal about these things…

But wondering if it's anything to do with fluid dynamics? And the fuel getting sucked up the atomiser.


VHSH and 8mm hose taking up all the space.


No tool box. :( the Vape has taken that space up…


Those are all just to measure 1-2mm holes, lol

Thu, 05 Jan 2023 06:50:28 +0000

Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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Joined: Sun, 02 Aug 2015 18:39:51 +0000
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Location: Veria, Greece
Thu, 05 Jan 2023 06:50:28 +0000 quote
This…





OP
Thu, 05 Jan 2023 06:52:19 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Thu, 05 Jan 2023 06:52:19 +0000 quote
SaFiS wrote:
This…
The orange scoot, the frame drilled for the vape?

How's the speedo black box attached?
Thu, 05 Jan 2023 06:58:07 +0000

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Ossessionato
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Location: Veria, Greece
Thu, 05 Jan 2023 06:58:07 +0000 quote
No, made a bracket that's held by the seat's bolts. 3M double sided tape for the power box…
Thu, 05 Jan 2023 08:34:38 +0000

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
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Thu, 05 Jan 2023 08:34:38 +0000 quote
VHSH is a great carb once set up. They are used for race engines and have many more adjustments than most. I have one on my 181.

What are all the numbers for components of your carb?
OP
Thu, 05 Jan 2023 08:45:50 +0000

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Thu, 05 Jan 2023 08:45:50 +0000 quote
Jack221 wrote:
VHSH is a great carb once set up. They are used for race engines and have many more adjustments than most. I have one on my 181.

What are all the numbers for components of your carb?
Yeah, it's nice and responsive. Can't beat a flatslide I think

60 idle
B44 idle mixer
Air screw 2.75 turns out
DQ 264 atomiser
K98 needle clip second from bottom
168 main

I trust the dyno test jetting provided by EGIG which would make it DQ 265 and 165 main… but I'll test it when they arrive.

Usually settings end up being more lean with me (don't know why. Just seems to be the case).
Thu, 05 Jan 2023 09:27:31 +0000

Jet Eye Master
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Thu, 05 Jan 2023 09:27:31 +0000 quote
So far so good. All those parts are credible. What about float type, weight, height? Bushing size? Slide number? Pilot needle jet? Pump? Fuel filters?

This carb runs better on the road, when the airscrew is between 1.0 and 1.5 turns. Adjust the B44 to suit. Start at 0.25 turns, smoking and idle screw well in.

Copying jetting from another exact similar setup will get you close but when there's only 10% adjustment from perfect to damage, you still need to be cautious.

The VHSH on my 181 ended up on a 185 main jet but that doesn't mean much without the context of all other components.
OP
Thu, 05 Jan 2023 11:25:14 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Thu, 05 Jan 2023 11:25:14 +0000 quote
Jack221 wrote:
So far so good. All those parts are credible. What about float type, weight, height? Bushing size? Slide number? Pilot needle jet? Pump? Fuel filters?

This carb runs better on the road, when the airscrew is between 1.0 and 1.5 turns. Adjust the B44 to suit. Start at 0.25 turns, smoking and idle screw well in.

Copying jetting from another exact similar setup will get you close but when there's only 10% adjustment from perfect to damage, you still need to be cautious.
Ah, will fill in the specifics:
300 float valve
60 Choke jet
12630 Float – 9.0 grams
7mm open tall bushing
50 slide
No fuel pump or fuel filter (the smallie tank is pretty direct to carb and the insides are clean I don't think it's the original tank)

What's a pilot needle jet though?

So, interesting with the float height, something I tried and learnt on the pwk because it has a clear float bowl (and with a lot of dismantling), is that I adjust the float so the fuel level submerges the hole the pilot jet goes in, but it's a few millimetres below the float bowl gasket.

You can see what's going on when revving it on the stand and seeing if the fuel replenishes properly.

It's not super scientific but hasn't failed since doing it on about a half a dozen Vespa carbs since then and on other bikes (hondas and BMWs). And ones I've compared to spec, it matches up.

With ones without a clear float bowl, it's filling the carb with fuel, emptying it and it leaves a residue where the fuel went up to. Takes a ton of patience because the carb can't move or it messes up the reading.

Of course jetting varies, but the people I end up asking, it's been a ballpark of about 10-15% of the jetting provided. In my case, I always end up on the lean side.

Stuck too many jets in now to know there's a difference between dyno jetting and real world jetting.
Thu, 05 Jan 2023 12:31:36 +0000

Jet Eye Master
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Thu, 05 Jan 2023 12:31:36 +0000 quote
All the parts you've been advised are all good. The float needle jet is the same as float valve. The jet is more just jet, valve is the whole thing. I would have fitted a 350 for gravity but no issue.

We're talking the same with advice. 10 to 15% difference copied from another bike is a similar tolerance as, perfect jetting to damage. Advice helps but a 2 stroke has to be individually jetted. Everything ever learned from 4 strokes doesn't apply.

For the float level on a 9g is 13mm measure this on both sides and it's done. Clear bowl helps but not essential. If set to 13mm and doesn't overflow at max rpm, it's all good. Do this before jetting and never adjust again. Mess with the float and it all needs rejetting again.
Get the float and pilot set and I can talk you through the rest if you want.
OP
Mon, 09 Jan 2023 10:36:26 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Mon, 09 Jan 2023 10:36:26 +0000 quote
Managed to install the DQ 265.

Goes like the clappers now... Pulls like a freight train in 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

Front wheel in the air 1st and 2nd.

Need to do more test runs, so I don't end up with one of those Chandler awards...

But feels pretty good.

He's another fella with a Egig 170 and PHBH 30

  DoubleGood Design  

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