Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:02 pm

Addicted
86 T5, 63 GL, 65 Allstate
Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 714
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
 
Addicted
86 T5, 63 GL, 65 Allstate
Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 714
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:02 pm linkquote
I'm trying to install an SIP ultrastrong Cosa type clutch in my 1986 T5. I did the initial install and buttoned up the clutch cover, tightened the clutch cable. But when I used the kickstart there was nothing there.
I loosened the cable but that didn't help. So I pulled the clutch cover back off and tried the kickstart again, this time it worked.
I figure the new clutch is bigger than the old one, and the clutch cover is fouling things up.
So….modify the cover? Install a thinner spacer? Order a new p200 clutch cover?




Cover rocks a bit.


Get a thinner spacer?

Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:14 pm

Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80,90 V5N 50, 01 ET2, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 4372
Location: Oceanside, CA
 
Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 Elite 80,90 V5N 50, 01 ET2, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 4372
Location: Oceanside, CA
Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:14 pm linkquote
Order a new cover! I've done everything you could up to buying a new cover and I'll never go back to it! So nice when it fits first time!

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/clutch-cover-piaggio-by-mmw-bore-out-cnc-clutch-basket-mmw_93163000?q=Cosa%20clutch%20cover
Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:03 pm

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3563

 
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3563

Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:03 pm linkquote
The new fancy clutch basket might also be fouling out against the clutch arm. You can whittle your OEM clutch arm down some, or you can buy one that is already whittled down. https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/clutch-lever-piaggio-by-mmw_97986000 I'm sometimes a bit leery of the machines down clutch arms. They are a bit weaker since a fair amount of material gets removed from it. It's nothing substantiated, so don't read anything extra into my strength concern. I have a fancy DRT clutch in my tuned T5 172. I used the stock clutch cover, shaved down my clutch arm a smidge, and used a SIP clutch cover spacer. SIP has a newer style clutch cover spacer that is much nicer than their original version. https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/spacer-sip-cnc-clutch-cover_17650000?q=Clutch%20spacer%20cover Keep in mind that the spacer is 5.5mm thick...which means that the cover will be 5.5mm closer to the rear tire's sidewall. I have about a 2mm spacer in my T5. There's zero tire rubbing with SIP's 2.5" wide tubeless rims when the Dunlop race slicks are mounted up.

Or...like what MJ said, just a different clutch cover might do the trick, but every oversized billet clutch is a pinch different sized.
Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:35 pm

Addicted
86 T5, 63 GL, 65 Allstate
Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 714
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
 
Addicted
86 T5, 63 GL, 65 Allstate
Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 714
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:35 pm linkquote
I think I can test the clutch by removing the spacer and installing the new clutch and old cover. If the cover fits and the clutch operates without the spacer then that should be a tell that a thinner spacer may solve the problem.
That cover from SIP costs $70 bucks and with shipping I won't see it until June.
I've got an extra spacer that I could have machined down to .8mm.


SIP 8mm spacer for Cosa clutch


Extra spacer



Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:42 pm

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3563

 
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3563

Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:42 pm linkquote
Vpfalcon wrote:
I think I can test the clutch by removing the spacer and installing the new clutch and old cover. If the cover fits and the clutch operates without the spacer then that should be a tell that a thinner spacer may solve the problem.
That cover from SIP costs $70 bucks and with shipping I won't see it until June.
I've got an extra spacer that I could have machined down to .8mm.
I forgot to mention that I also used a thinner spacer behind the clutch assembly as well. I bought a few different thickness from SIP and went with the one that worked the best for my particular situation.
Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:43 pm

Addicted
86 T5, 63 GL, 65 Allstate
Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 714
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
 
Addicted
86 T5, 63 GL, 65 Allstate
Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 714
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
Mon Apr 25, 2022 5:43 pm linkquote
I have a stock p200 clutch cover I could borrow from another scooter, I could try that too.
Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:26 pm

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 3179
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 3179
Location: california
Mon Apr 25, 2022 7:26 pm linkquote
well - I have lots to say here.
Feel like I tried it all.
1. Thinner spacer is fine - if... the cogs line up, AND, you replace them often.
2. On that replace them often thing... the new gen clutches are bigger and heavier and they bend the spacer. CAREFUL. they can impeded on your bearing. thicker one transfers load better.
3. I bought one of the fancy clutch covers that is already ground back - nicely - and evenly - on a lathe - for lots of $$$. but that same cover has to transfer load - so thinning it to tinfoil may allow it to fit - but as Whodat notes - makes it flimsy.
3. Due to #1, #2, #3 above - best solution in MY book is a thick spacer and a stock cover. Whodat provided me a homemade spacer out of the gate that got me acclimated.
Eventually just plonked down for thicker one - that had its own seal.

With a proper spacer - you get all the strength to carry the load - and the space you need not to have interference like you are experiencing. No compromise.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/spacer-sip-cnc-clutch-cover_17650000?q=clutch%20cover%20spacer

This has worked nicely for me and been robust.
Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:05 pm

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2999
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2999
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:05 pm linkquote
The T5 already has a 200 cover since it's using a 200 clutch. Is your clutch sitting fully in?? I see the woodruff key at an angle. Sometimes it gets pushed in and doesn't allow the baseplate to sit fully in. On my T5 I just machined my original cover and took a bit of the lip on the cases above the clutch…





Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:01 am

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 2679
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 2679
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:01 am linkquote
SaFiS wrote:
The T5 already has a 200 cover since it's using a 200 clutch. Is your clutch sitting fully in?? I see the woodruff key at an angle. Sometimes it gets pushed in and doesn't allow the baseplate to sit fully in. On my T5 I just machined my original cover and took a bit of the lip on the cases above the clutch…
What is the red part you have circled for?
Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:08 am

Hooked
125 GTR 1977, 50S 1975, GTS 125 Supertech 2021
Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 194
Location: Madeira Island
 
Hooked
125 GTR 1977, 50S 1975, GTS 125 Supertech 2021
Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 194
Location: Madeira Island
Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:08 am linkquote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
What is the red part you have circled for?
I think you have to drill out that tab
Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:32 am

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2999
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2999
Location: Veria, Greece
Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:32 am linkquote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
What is the red part you have circled for?
It's there to splash the oil but when using bigger / aftermarket clutches sometimes they will "stop" on it. I just make sure the clutch doesn't hit it and if it does I just grind it a bit…
Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:47 am

Addicted
86 T5, 63 GL, 65 Allstate
Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 714
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
 
Addicted
86 T5, 63 GL, 65 Allstate
Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 714
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:47 am linkquote
I removed the spacer behind the clutch just to see if that helped, but it did not. So went ahead and ordered the cover spacer, luckily Mercato had it in stock.
I put the original clutch back in so at least I can ride the scooter.
I'll report back when the spacer arrives.
Mon May 16, 2022 6:50 am

Addicted
86 T5, 63 GL, 65 Allstate
Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 714
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
 
Addicted
86 T5, 63 GL, 65 Allstate
Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Posts: 714
Location: Oak Brook, Illinois
Mon May 16, 2022 6:50 am linkquote
I ended up trying the spacer but it created too much room under the clutch cover and also necessitated another spacer for the rear wheel.
I ground the inside of the cover and that seems to work fine. The new clutch is easy to operate and scooter shifts well too.



  DoubleGood Vespa Design  

All Content Copyright 2005-2022 by Modern Vespa. All Rights Reserved.

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com.

Shop on Amazon Smile with Modern Vespa

[ Time: 0.0317s ][ Queries: 8 (0.0109s) ][ Debug on ][ 211 ][ Thing One ]