Sat May 14, 2022 9:24 am

Member
Vespa Prmavera 4t 4v 50cc
Joined: 14 May 2022
Posts: 8
Location: New York
 
Member
Vespa Prmavera 4t 4v 50cc
Joined: 14 May 2022
Posts: 8
Location: New York
Sat May 14, 2022 9:24 am linkquote
Hi everyone

I got a scooter Vespa Primavera 4t4v 50cc 2015. It is not registered yet and has a Florida title. I have a driver license for cars. Do I need to pass something additional or get M license to drive it legally in New York city? Or there is a way to register it the way I won't need anything except an ordinary driver license. Thank you



Sat May 14, 2022 9:41 am

Hooked
Primavera 150
Joined: 14 Jul 2021
Posts: 109
Location: Monument, Colorado
 
Hooked
Primavera 150
Joined: 14 Jul 2021
Posts: 109
Location: Monument, Colorado
Sat May 14, 2022 9:41 am linkquote
yael wrote:
Hi everyone

I got a scooter Vespa Primavera 4t4v 50cc 2015. It is not registered yet and has a Florida title. I have a driver license for cars. Do I need to pass something additional or get M license to drive it legally in New York city? Or there is a way to register it the way I won't need anything except an ordinary driver license. Thank you
You could search the New York State DMV site and get accurate answers regarding licensing and registration.

https://dmv.ny.gov/registration/register-moped
Sat May 14, 2022 9:45 am

Molto Verboso
GTV300 (wife's)
Joined: 08 Nov 2014
Posts: 1724
Location: Central New York
 
Molto Verboso
GTV300 (wife's)
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Posts: 1724
Location: Central New York
Sat May 14, 2022 9:45 am linkquote
Don't know if there are special rules for NYC but anywhere else in New York State here is a link to the DMV, top speed of vehicle is the determining factor. I personally don't know that detail for a Vespa Primavera 4t4v 50cc 2015

https://www.dmv.org/ny-new-york/other-types.php

Well did another search and found this:
https://www.vespa.com/us_EN/models/primavera/primavera-30-mph-50-4s3v-2021/

If accurate then I guess in New York State the normal drivers license will work. But I woould suggest checking with local law enforcement to be sure!
Sat May 14, 2022 10:04 am

Member
Vespa Prmavera 4t 4v 50cc
Joined: 14 May 2022
Posts: 8
Location: New York
 
Member
Vespa Prmavera 4t 4v 50cc
Joined: 14 May 2022
Posts: 8
Location: New York
Sat May 14, 2022 10:04 am linkquote
I called DMV and they are not sure either and just invited to bring documents to register it. Teh link to the vespa is for the 4t 3v model and I have 4t4v and even those they have 2 50cc modification one of which requires M license and another does not. That's why I do not understand what particular I have.thank you
Sat May 14, 2022 10:34 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 12601
Location: Oregon City, OR
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 12601
Location: Oregon City, OR
Sat May 14, 2022 10:34 am linkquote
yael wrote:
I called DMV and they are not sure either and just invited to bring documents to register it. Teh link to the vespa is for the 4t 3v model and I have 4t4v and even those they have 2 50cc modification one of which requires M license and another does not. That's why I do not understand what particular I have. thank you
You might give some thought to what you want to do - as well as what you have to do. Whether a motorcycle endorsement is required or not, you would certainly benefit from taking the MSF Basic Course. It will make you a more skilled, confident, and safer rider. And whether insurance is required or not, I don't think I'd want to ride around without liability insurance.
Sat May 14, 2022 10:41 am

Member
Vespa Prmavera 4t 4v 50cc
Joined: 14 May 2022
Posts: 8
Location: New York
 
Member
Vespa Prmavera 4t 4v 50cc
Joined: 14 May 2022
Posts: 8
Location: New York
Sat May 14, 2022 10:41 am linkquote
I sent tye same question to the MSF courses in Bronx but also I am asking here do I need to pass theory test before MSF course if I have D license?
I am not so bad actually. I rented 50cc vehicle while traveling there a car endorsement was enough for that. But I agree additional experience won't be harm anyway.
Sat May 14, 2022 10:48 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 12601
Location: Oregon City, OR
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 12601
Location: Oregon City, OR
Sat May 14, 2022 10:48 am linkquote
yael wrote:
I sent the same question to the MSF courses in Bronx but also I am asking here do I need to pass theory test before MSF course if I have D license?
Rules vary from state to state, but there was a written test as part of the MSF Basic Course when I took it in my state, and I already had a standard drivers license.
Sat May 14, 2022 11:00 am

Member
Vespa Prmavera 4t 4v 50cc
Joined: 14 May 2022
Posts: 8
Location: New York
 
Member
Vespa Prmavera 4t 4v 50cc
Joined: 14 May 2022
Posts: 8
Location: New York
Sat May 14, 2022 11:00 am linkquote
Oh. I see. I think the same here. As far as I understand those tests are sponsored by consortium of moto industry corporations.
Sat May 14, 2022 11:05 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 12601
Location: Oregon City, OR
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 12601
Location: Oregon City, OR
Sat May 14, 2022 11:05 am linkquote
yael wrote:
Oh. I see. I think the same here. As far as I understand those tests are sponsored by consortium of moto industry corporations.
The MSF is an independent safety foundation. Most states have an agreement with them to conduct classroom and practical safety training recognized by the state. Most states recognize the Basic Course as meeting the requirements for a state motorcycle endorsement to your drivers license. In other words, the state issues the endorsement with no further training or testing.
Sat May 14, 2022 11:11 am

Member
Vespa Prmavera 4t 4v 50cc
Joined: 14 May 2022
Posts: 8
Location: New York
 
Member
Vespa Prmavera 4t 4v 50cc
Joined: 14 May 2022
Posts: 8
Location: New York
Sat May 14, 2022 11:11 am linkquote
Yup, I read it

The Motorcycle Safety Foundation® is the internationally recognized developer of the comprehensive, research-based, Rider Education and Training System (RETS). RETS curricula promotes lifelong-learning for motorcyclists and continuous professional development for certified RiderCoaches(SM) and other trainers. MSF also actively participates in government relations, safety research, public awareness campaigns, and the provision of technical assistance to state training and licensing programs. The Motorcycle Safety Foundation is a national, not-for-profit organization sponsored by BMW, BRP, Harley-Davidson, Honda, Indian Motorcycle, Kawasaki, KTM, Suzuki, Triumph and Yamaha.
Sat May 14, 2022 12:13 pm

Hooked
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: 28 Sep 2019
Posts: 229
Location: NYC
 
Hooked
GTS 300 hpe
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Posts: 229
Location: NYC
Sat May 14, 2022 12:13 pm linkquote
yael wrote:
Hi everyone

I got a scooter Vespa Primavera 4t4v 50cc 2015. It is not registered yet and has a Florida title. I have a driver license for cars. Do I need to pass something additional or get M license to drive it legally in New York city?
A license for driving cars is sufficient in New York State if it's a 50cc scooter. Nonetheless the MSF course would be a great idea because it helps you to stay safe on the roads.
Sat May 14, 2022 12:16 pm

Member
Vespa Prmavera 4t 4v 50cc
Joined: 14 May 2022
Posts: 8
Location: New York
 
Member
Vespa Prmavera 4t 4v 50cc
Joined: 14 May 2022
Posts: 8
Location: New York
Sat May 14, 2022 12:16 pm linkquote
It is 50cc. Thank you very much



Sat May 14, 2022 3:08 pm

Hooked
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: 28 Sep 2019
Posts: 229
Location: NYC
 
Hooked
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: 28 Sep 2019
Posts: 229
Location: NYC
Sat May 14, 2022 3:08 pm linkquote
yael wrote:
I sent tye same question to the MSF courses in Bronx but also I am asking here do I need to pass theory test before MSF course if I have D license?
I am not so bad actually. I rented 50cc vehicle while traveling there a car endorsement was enough for that. But I agree additional experience won't be harm anyway.
Yes, if you would like to get the M endorsement on your New York State license to ride a larger scooter/motorcycle, passing the written test is a prerequisite.
Sat May 14, 2022 3:10 pm

Member
Vespa Prmavera 4t 4v 50cc
Joined: 14 May 2022
Posts: 8
Location: New York
 
Member
Vespa Prmavera 4t 4v 50cc
Joined: 14 May 2022
Posts: 8
Location: New York
Sat May 14, 2022 3:10 pm linkquote
Thank you. I think I will do it
Sat May 14, 2022 3:30 pm

Molto Verboso
GTV300 (wife's)
Joined: 08 Nov 2014
Posts: 1724
Location: Central New York
 
Molto Verboso
GTV300 (wife's)
Joined: 08 Nov 2014
Posts: 1724
Location: Central New York
Sat May 14, 2022 3:30 pm linkquote
Dooglas wrote:
You might give some thought to what you want to do - as well as what you have to do. Whether a motorcycle endorsement is required or not, you would certainly benefit from taking the MSF Basic Course. It will make you a more skilled, confident, and safer rider. And whether insurance is required or not, I don't think I'd want to ride around without liability insurance.
Plus if you like using the small Vespa to get around there might come the time you want to move up to a bigger scooter and if you already have the license it would be easier.

Heck I started on a 60cc motorcycle back in 1967. That little 60cc would top out at 60 mph! Still riding now with the same license all these years latter.
Sat May 14, 2022 3:32 pm

Member
Vespa Prmavera 4t 4v 50cc
Joined: 14 May 2022
Posts: 8
Location: New York
 
Member
Vespa Prmavera 4t 4v 50cc
Joined: 14 May 2022
Posts: 8
Location: New York
Sat May 14, 2022 3:32 pm linkquote
Frankly if I owned a garage I would buy Honda Rune 2004. But I live in Manhattan and space is limited
Sat May 14, 2022 3:51 pm

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3731
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3731
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat May 14, 2022 3:51 pm linkquote
Ok what is the top speed of your 50cc?

https://dmv.ny.gov/registration/register-moped

Over 30mph and you need to get a motorcycle endorsement, (I believe your 50cc vehicle only goes 30mph max.. so you wouldn't need a license, but I would suggest taking the class and getting one because you learn how to deal with dangerous situations). You will need insurance on it though. Only 20mph or less vehicles do not require insurance.

If under 30mph you just need to register it. Registering it involves paying sales tax on your purchase even from out of state, and transferring the title over.

I live on Staten Island and am regularly registering vintage vespas. It is not much money. I registered a small frame vintage vespa that goes 45mph top speed yesterday and the registration was $99.45 including sales tax on the $500 purchase price I paid for the scooter. Registration itself is only like $35.

Regardless of if you need the license, you want the title in your name as proof of ownership.

But I also second everyone elses statement that you should go do an MSF course. I did mine with no prior motorcycle riding and did the class on the provided harleys and it was no sweat. You are in a parking lot for the driving lessons. Class is half a day for two days with written test. The other half a day is riding lessons.

Multiple people in my class dropped their class provided harleys throughout the class and still came out with a learners permit. Crazy I know, but I guess its not that hard to pass the class. Then you just schedule a written exam for the license at the dmv and take the written test which is probably 20-30 min max and same stuff you covered on the MSF class test. After that you are good to go. You do not have to take another driving test if you do the MSF class and pass.

If you rode the rental scooters that have been around for a few years, you will be fine. I actually think its crazy they offer those rental scooters around here without requiring a motorcycle license because it lends itself to people who have no business or experience riding in busy city traffic with little knowledge on how to deal with unexpected situations. The MSF class teaches you all this.

Best of luck!
Sat May 14, 2022 3:57 pm

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3731
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T
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Posts: 3731
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat May 14, 2022 3:57 pm linkquote
yael wrote:
Frankly if I owned a garage I would buy Honda Rune 2004. But I live in Manhattan and space is limited
You should also look at the Honda Navi if you are interested in a smaller motorcycle with a limited top speed for city only driving. They are cheap and are basically the same as your 50cc vespa in terms of speed and engine. It is a twist and go throttle with no shifting because the engine is essentially a scooter engine, but in a small motorcycle body. It has a top speed of 50mph which I think is actually safer for you driving in NYC than a vespa that only goes 30mph max. While you may not prefer to drive 50mph regularly.. you learn quickly that having extra speed capability above what you normally drive will allow you to have some extra power to get out of the way of a dangerous situation easier than when you are struggling at the top speed of 30mph. Plus, at 30mph if you are riding on the west side highway, you are pretty much the slow traffic getting in everyones way so it gets a little more intimidating to be in everyones way while people are trying to get around you.

Plus, the Navi is really affordable.

https://powersports.honda.com/street/minimoto/navi

Sun May 15, 2022 4:46 am

Enthusiast
VESPA GTS 300
Joined: 25 Feb 2022
Posts: 61
Location: Pearl River, NY '
 
Enthusiast
VESPA GTS 300
Joined: 25 Feb 2022
Posts: 61
Location: Pearl River, NY '
Sun May 15, 2022 4:46 am linkquote
yael wrote:
Hi everyone

I got a scooter Vespa Primavera 4t4v 50cc 2015. It is not registered yet and has a Florida title. I have a driver license for cars. Do I need to pass something additional or get M license to drive it legally in New York city? Or there is a way to register it the way I won't need anything except an ordinary driver license. Thank you
It is my understanding that at 50cc you do not need a motorcycle endorsement. The revel scooters that are flying around NYC go around 35mph and anyone can use those. I think anything 125cc and above you need one. I got my ET4 in NYC 17 years ago and this was what I learned back then. Have fun and ride safe!
Sun May 15, 2022 5:42 am

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3731
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
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Joined: 20 Jul 2018
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Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun May 15, 2022 5:42 am linkquote
RocklandDad wrote:
It is my understanding that at 50cc you do not need a motorcycle endorsement. The revel scooters that are flying around NYC go around 35mph and anyone can use those. I think anything 125cc and above you need one. I got my ET4 in NYC 17 years ago and this was what I learned back then. Have fun and ride safe!
Higher than 30mph. I registered a 90cc vintage that qualifies as motorcycle reg simply because it goes 45-50mph.

This is the problem I have with revel scooters. If they go over 30 mph then technically to rent them you should be required to have an m endorsement. So they are operating illegally if not requiring that.
Sun May 15, 2022 6:51 am

Addicted
S150 '09, Beo 500ie '08
Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 841
Location: Bermuda
 
Addicted
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Posts: 841
Location: Bermuda
Sun May 15, 2022 6:51 am linkquote
If you read the NY rules carefully you will see that the NY definition of "limited use vehicle" (sometimes confusingly used interchangeably with "moped" regardless of the presence or absence of pedals) falls in three classes, A, B, and C, based on top speed as delivered by the manufacturer, not engine displacement.

The typical Vespa 50cc is NOT top-speed limited to 30mph so it will be flagged by the DMV based on its VIN as a limited use class A motorcycle. It requires motorcycle insurance, registration, and a motorcycle endorsement on your license. It does not require annual inspections.

If you buy a new Vespa 50cc, the dealer will tell you that it requires a motorcycle endorsement and they will handle the registration accordingly. If you buy a used one, you might be told anything or nothing that is relevant or true for NY state. This will catch up with you at the DMV, however, because of the VIN.

There exist some relatively new Vespa 50cc "LS" or "30mph" versions. The LS stands for "limited speed" and these do NOT require a motorcycle endorsement because it is a limited use motorcycle, Class B. I believe the limitation is established by the machine's computer and is difficult/impossible to override.
https://www.vespa.com/us_EN/models/primavera/primavera-30-mph-50-4s3v-2021/

The description specifically identifies NY as one of the states for which the model is intended because of the top speed limitation in the DMV rules, rather than the 50cc displacement that most other states use.

Many other 50cc machines (like the Genuine Buddy and Roughhouse 2-strokes) are delivered by the manufacturer with hardware restrictions that limit speed to 30mph to avoid the need for a motorcycle endorsement in states like NY. These restrictions are pretty easy to remove, and 2-strokes are fairly easy to soup up well beyond their stock configurations. As a result there are a whole lot of scooters out there that started life as speed-limited 50cc models ("Class B") but are no longer. They are clean in the DMV's eyes but are not really in conformance with the law. I don't think anybody particularly cares about this flagrant violation of regulation, but Piaggio/Vespa chose not to play this game.

Rules are different/vague for electric two-wheelers, but I don't think Revel rental scooters go faster than 30mph…although they seem to get to 30mph pretty quickly.
Sun May 15, 2022 8:07 am

Contributor
2007 LX 150 (memories)
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 8442
Location: New Hampshire
 
Contributor
2007 LX 150 (memories)
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 8442
Location: New Hampshire
Sun May 15, 2022 8:07 am linkquote
NH makes it easy, regardless of displacement or speed. If it has a motor, you need a Motorcycle Endorsement on your Driver's License, and that requires a MSF or State Test.
Sun May 15, 2022 8:55 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 12601
Location: Oregon City, OR
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 12601
Location: Oregon City, OR
Sun May 15, 2022 8:55 am linkquote
NightWing wrote:
NH makes it easy, regardless of displacement or speed. If it has a motor, you need a Motorcycle Endorsement on your Driver's License, and that requires a MSF or State Test.
Oregon is the same. As you say, that makes it simple and it makes more sense.
Sun May 15, 2022 2:05 pm

Molto Verboso
GTV300 (wife's)
Joined: 08 Nov 2014
Posts: 1724
Location: Central New York
 
Molto Verboso
GTV300 (wife's)
Joined: 08 Nov 2014
Posts: 1724
Location: Central New York
Sun May 15, 2022 2:05 pm linkquote
Dooglas wrote:
Oregon is the same. As you say, that makes it simple and it makes more sense.
And I think anyone riding any two or three wheeler should take the course. I feel it is just as easy to get hurt riding at 30 MPH and it is at 32 MPH. Besides to me 90+% of the danger is not from the actual speed limits of the scooter but would be from the other vehicles on the road and the way you interact with them!
Sun May 15, 2022 2:23 pm

Ossessionato
One of each
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 3421
Location: Ranura de Monedas, NorCal
 
Ossessionato
One of each
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 3421
Location: Ranura de Monedas, NorCal
Sun May 15, 2022 2:23 pm linkquote
Statistics can also open your eyes to licensing here's the MV recent post

IMO - add as much uninsured/underinsured coverage as your policy allows.
Sun May 15, 2022 6:04 pm

Hooked
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: 28 Sep 2019
Posts: 229
Location: NYC
 
Hooked
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: 28 Sep 2019
Posts: 229
Location: NYC
Sun May 15, 2022 6:04 pm linkquote
As someone who has ridden Revel scooters many times, I can't say that I've ever used one that wasn't limited to under 30mph.
Sun May 15, 2022 6:15 pm

Hooked
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: 28 Sep 2019
Posts: 229
Location: NYC
 
Hooked
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: 28 Sep 2019
Posts: 229
Location: NYC
Sun May 15, 2022 6:15 pm linkquote
Re New York 50cc riders and motorcycle endorsements

I know several people that ride a 50cc Honda Ruckus (there's a cult of Ruckus out there!) and as far as I know, a stock Ruckus has a top speed of over 30 mph, yet theirs are not titled as motorcycles nor do some of those riders have a Class M endorsement on their license. If that follows the letter of the law in New York, I do not know, but it appears common practice. In general I don't see much enforcement in New York City when it comes to 50cc bikes, as many ride around without plates.
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