Modern Vespa

Before I start on my Smallstate I have one minor task...refreshing the Stella I bought along with it that I'm selling along to a friend.

This week, I pulled the motor and stripped it down. For the most part, it was in pretty good shape, other than the clutch side seal having come completely loose so I came out along with the crank.

It had allowed a fair amount of gasoline to leak into the crank case.

Cases are now stripped down other than one stuck screw holding the reed block on. I hit it with heat and PB Blaster last night, so maybe I'll get lucky and it'll come loose when I have my next run at it. If not, I think I'm going to have drill off the top, then remove the remains.

Holy shit! What kind of seal was in there??

wow... just wow.

A bare metal one. I never use them because they have a bad habit of failing, then spinning a groove into the seat. I use the brown BGM ones with a rubber lip.

damn! that's a clutch-side leak alrighty

More heat!!

When you think you heated it enough, take a sip of coffee, and heat it some more.
Then back that screw out.
Just ask SoCal.
🙂.

I went through it with the frozen case stud on my P200 motor, too. I just need to prop the heat gun in place and let it work.

Also, the speedo lens was terribly frosted/oxidized. I cleaned it off, but no dice. So I hit it with some buffing compound to see if that would make a difference. I put tape over the top half for a proper like-to-like comparison and the improvement is significant.

That was just hand buffing it a little. I may hit it with the machine next just to see how that goes.

What's the ole saying? Pissing like a race horse...

Very cool of you to fix it properly before passing it on...

That's a great improvement on the speedo lense. Amazing what a little TLC can do!

BTW - I found that by just cutting out the piece on the reed block and using Boyseen reeds, flowing everything from the carb to the case, and a decent exhaust made a pretty big difference in my Stella.

I didn't notice it but a friend (Geoff) from Eugene came over one day and we were all out riding. He asked me what I did to it.

Whaddya mean, it's stock!

No F-ing way, what kit did you put on it?

No kit, just a different pipe, and I flowed everything from the carb to the cases, oh and boyseen reeds, oh, and that little piece on the reed block, but other than that.

See, that's not STOCK!

I also realized that I'd forgotten to order new seals along with the rest of the parts I needed but didn't have on the shelf, so I called up Dave at Scootermercato to catch my order before it shipped and told him as he was adding the parts, "It's not the stupid metal seals, is it? I just want to make sure."

He replied, "No, we don't even carry those fuckin' things. They suck."

Yet another reason to love SM.

Going through a Stella case too…It looks to be pretty well made, though lacks the deburring and finishing work that I have seen on my old Piaggio cases. Lots of sharp edges and casting flash.

It's the itty bitty bits that get you down. I butchered the stator screws on the 200 after trying all the usual tricks. Vespa engines make me feel like a gorilla working with rocks and pointed sticks.

They are the best. Had a similar conversation about their Stella rebuild kit when I asked if it was LML stuff in it.

Did someone say heat?

Metal seals are fine, unless installed wrong. Due to manufacturing tolerances, newer seals mustn't installed flush to the cases. If installed flush, they rub on the center bearing race when clutch is pulled, spin and pop out. They need to protrude about 0,5mm. You either grind the seal or need a tool which is not available. I made one a while ago. I always buy Corteco brown seals or Malossi if customer is paying extra and install them with Loctite 603. Never had one pop out. Cases without the lip around the sealing surface need a metal seal...

I have a seal punch/drift (the SIP one), but even so, the metal ones don't stay put worth a damn, even with Loctite 603.

Like you, I've never had a brown Corteco one pop out or fail on me, so I just go with them and avoid the possibility of yet another unplanned case splitting adventure.

Amazingly, my SM order arrived this afternoon, so I should easily have this motor buttoned up and back in the bike this weekend.

After that, it's just new tires, polishing the rest of the speedo face, and replacing the fuel and oil lines.

Somehow the packages from David at SM never seem to have good tracking data but always arrive a day before you expect. My new cylinder studs arrived tonight (Saturday PM ETA) and so now I need to "work from home" tomorrow.

It's a weekend of Stella wrenching.

h

Under promise, over deliver your happy, company looks good, all is right in the world.

That's a UPS thing. When he ships the package, it generates a tracking number, but the package isn't officially "in the system" until it hits a UPS facility, at which time they can provide a date. Depending on where you are, it's then a matter of whether you have to pass through multiple facilities or not. Atlanta is basically two towns over from me (3 1/2 hours, with only Chatanooga in between because), plus a national forest, so we're the first stop out of that distribution center.

Regardless of why it works out that way, I do love the fact that I get my SM packages overnight more often than not now.

I'm rooting for you Chandlerman. Now don't get all nervous at the end and whip out a dremel and start going to town on it.

Just
button
it
up.

But...but...can I at least match everything up?

I'm putting in a spare flowed 57mm crank b/c it needs a good home along with a de-restricted exhaust. I'm resisting the urge to replace the steel reed, too.

This Not Tuning stuff is HARD, y'all!

you must leave the steel reed

matching up is a slippery slope, I recommend leaving it alone. don't you know it can't possibly stop there for you????

I can quit any time!

the steel reed is uber reliable, it should remain.

the matching - no more than 30 minutes allowed.

Wait - just catching up.

Youesn you've got the cases opened and you didn't open up the intake? Whaaaat?

I'm sure there's some sort of Twelve Step Program for tune-a-holics, but I really have no interest in finding out.

I'll bet it starts with "Accept a Lower Power into your life," which sounds like no fun at all.

that's exactly it, when you realize that it can be as much fun to not chase the dragon as to chase it.

Think of it this way: You will NOT be depriving the new owner of discovering all the magical ways to 'improve' the motor, to make it run better and better ! Until it does not And NOW he is learning how to have fun w/ Vespa motors.

I started to write a long winded manifesto about tuning and stopped.

No shame in building a stocker or staying with the low hanging fruit on the tuning tree.

🤣

I restrained myself. Just a tiny bit of matching on the carb to airbox and airbox to reed block, then cleaned up the edges of the transfers.

I installed the new bearings so I wouldn't be tempted to do more and then replaced the swingarm and rear buffers, which I'd conveniently forgotten/procrastinated.

About to have some lunch, then it'll be time for re-assembly in earnest.

Oh, and I forgot to share this picture from the teardown. I'm pretty sure there was more oil in the rear hub than the crankcase. Which I haven't quite figured out, given that it had a seal and a sealed rear bearing, and was holding gasoline just fine.

Oh, well. Just another mystery of Vespa Life.

this is the way

This may sound strange, but I was actually considering using one of the original vbb engines for the VBB with really basic tuning. It's silly, but I like the way it sounds.

Clearly - the gasoline displaced the oil to the hub cavity. Makes total sense.

You have to admit you have a problem with it. Sounds ridiculous even writing it.
If you want lower power, don't open the throttle.

For the record removing the bar in the reedblock, smoothing the transitions and adding boyesen reeds is an amazing improvement.

h

I did that on my very first Stella back many moons ago. That was 15 or 16 HP on a DR and the 57mm flowed crank that's now in this new build. LOL! *I* don't have a problem with it, I'm just building for reliability over performance for this build. It's not going to be one of mine, after all.

Also, I'm slightly afraid my friend will kill herself on it if I build something too speedy.

I'm finding that even though they're arguably mechanically superior in a lot respects, I just don't like the way Stellas/P's ride compared to the older bikes. So I'm going to put more effort ($$$) into bringing that better tech, especially the front suspension and disc brake, into my older fleet. And finally getting around to rebuilding my own Stella so I can sell it off. That's probably a Next Year project, though, because I'm going to do the Smallie first.

I got the clutch side of the cases finished up yesterday, including the clutch & clutch cover rebuilds. I was almost stopped cold when the new clutch bushing decided to crack as it cooled after installing it, but luckily I had a spare so I could keep going.

I decided it was time to quit after I started to worry that I'd put the clutch side seal in backwards. It was haunting me as I worked, recurring in my head like the pounding of Poe's Telltale Heart, to the point I finally pulled the clutch off and crank out to check. And all was well, but I still decided to call it for the day after I re-did the crank and clutch installation.

Today I expect I'll finish getting it back together and maybe even get to a First Start Video.

I had to do one bad thing, which is that while I have a multitude of rear hub seals, none of them are for a Stella. I used a sealed bearing, though, so until I can get a new hub seal, it'll just have to be like that. It's not like I'm going to be taking it anywhere for the time being.

Guess:
Rubber seal swelled in contact with enough gasoline. Gas evaporated, leaving just gear oil there.

Sealed bearings aren't sealed at the viscosity of oil mixed with gas.

I have a bit of a dilemma...I measured the port timings on this thing and they are...how you say..."Abysmal?"

Measurements of a zero deck height for the piston give me 40.9mm exhaust height, 50.4 transfer height, which in turn translates to 92 TD/143 ED/26 BD.

Both the exhaust and transfers need to come waaay up. Or I need to just slap another top end on it, neither of which are in keeping with the spirit of the build.

So I guess I'll button it up and see how it does like that but I'm still not happy about it.

The one good thing is that it'll have a nice tight 1mm squish, but those timings...*shudder*...

And it's a runner!

I got ready to fire it up, then realized that the key wasn't in it. So I had to go find it, which resulted in some cleaning of the workshop, digging through various pockets, and finally remembering very distinctly that I'd put it on a ScooterMercato keychain and hung it up. But it wasn't on the hook with all the other scooter keys.

I finally found it after at least an hour of progressively more profane searching on the next hook over, underneath a jacket. Right where I put it so it wouldn't get lost.

I still need to replace the front tire along with the fuel and oil lines, plus figure out what's up with the headset electricals tomorrow, but I can still try it out around the neighborhood even without those things. Or a license plate (it has an expired Vermont plate & title, but it's not on the bike).