OP
@shampoo avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
P200E
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Location: Montreal
 
Enthusiast
@shampoo avatar
P200E
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Location: Montreal
UTC quote
Hello

The jump from 1st to 2nd on my P200E is quite logical. The jump from 2nd to 3rd however requires I have it really singing otherwise when I go into 3rd, it really starts to bog down.

That is, the progression doesn't feel very linear. I don't have to have to revving high to move into 2nd, but I do moving into 3rd.

Is that normal ?
@mjrally avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@mjrally avatar
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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UTC quote
Nope. Not right. Have you messed with anything that would impact gearing? Tire size? Clutch cog? Gears? Christmas tree?
@xantufrog avatar
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Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Moderibbit
@xantufrog avatar
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8892
Location: Atlanta, GA
UTC quote
On the p200 3rd is a pretty dreamy gear. Something is odd. 4th is the troublemaker because it's a little too tall for the bike; they tightened it on the px200. But 3rd should feel pretty robust and an easy pull from 2nd.
OP
@shampoo avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
P200E
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Location: Montreal
 
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P200E
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I think I may have misled you.. It's definitely going into 3rd as I can also get into 4th.. It was a failed attempt at melodrama..

The issue is I find 3rd to be so much taller then 2nd.. That the delta between 1&2 is considerably less than from 2nd to 3rd.

I rode it yesterday and once I get it into the power band (sorry, I ride dirt bikes, not sure if that's a Vespa thing) when I plunk it into 3rd, I am far from the power band.. But maybe a bike with 4 gears needs that ratio..

Is it possible to replaced 3rd for a shorter one ? Not sure how many teeth that would be, but something that gives me more overlap between 2nd and 3rd.. I will almost never need 4th and I very rarely go faster then 70 km/h

Thanks !
@mjrally avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@mjrally avatar
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
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Location: Oceanside, CA
UTC quote
shampoo wrote:
I think I may have misled you.. It's definitely going into 3rd as I can also get into 4th.. It was a failed attempt at melodrama..

The issue is I find 3rd to be so much taller then 2nd.. That the delta between 1&2 is considerably less than from 2nd to 3rd.

I rode it yesterday and once I get it into the power band (sorry, I ride dirt bikes, not sure if that's a Vespa thing) when I plunk it into 3rd, I am far from the power band.. But maybe a bike with 4 gears needs that ratio..

Is it possible to replaced 3rd for a shorter one ? Not sure how many teeth that would be, but something that gives me more overlap between 2nd and 3rd.. I will almost never need 4th and I very rarely go faster then 70 km/h

Thanks !
Look online for a gear calculator that can calculate what tooth count you prefer to shorten up third. They do market a "short 4th" gear so no calculations needed for that one. Won't be close to dirt bike powerband you're used to, but there's room for improvement.
UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
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Posts: 4606
Location: London UK
UTC quote
Dirt bikes you are used to will be more punchy, however, a stock P200 should pull 3rd from just off idle.
Could be more of an engine issue rather than gearbox.
@108 avatar
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Ossessionato
V range 50s
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@108 avatar
V range 50s
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UTC quote
I'm with jack

I'd look into a jetting issue/engine leak making it bog between gear shifts
OP
@shampoo avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
P200E
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P200E
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Thanks everyone !

Always amazed by the quality of responses here.

J
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VNB VSC VMA VSX - o9c vbc vmb
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UTC quote
I thought jets too when I read your initial post... maybe kneejerk, but putting on a smaller main jet would be a quick and easy test.
@christopher_55934 avatar
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Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Ossessionato
@christopher_55934 avatar
2007 Stella 225
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3547
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
UTC quote
shampoo wrote:
I think I may have misled you.. It's definitely going into 3rd as I can also get into 4th.. It was a failed attempt at melodrama..

The issue is I find 3rd to be so much taller then 2nd.. That the delta between 1&2 is considerably less than from 2nd to 3rd.

I rode it yesterday and once I get it into the power band (sorry, I ride dirt bikes, not sure if that's a Vespa thing) when I plunk it into 3rd, I am far from the power band.. But maybe a bike with 4 gears needs that ratio..

Is it possible to replaced 3rd for a shorter one ? Not sure how many teeth that would be, but something that gives me more overlap between 2nd and 3rd.. I will almost never need 4th and I very rarely go faster then 70 km/h

Thanks !
You've got something else wrong, or someone has already changed some gears for you, people usually want to change 4th to a lower gear. Maybe someone put in a taller third instead of a shorter fourth?
OP
@shampoo avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
P200E
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P200E
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UTC quote
Next time I get the chance, I will try and put a shorter 3rd in.. It's not horrible, but I'd like something a little closer to 2nd.. 90% of my riding is city commuting and being able to sit in 3rd while doing say 40-65km/h would be great. Right now, 50km/h in 2nd has it near the end of the rev range and 3rd feels like it's near the bottom..
@xantufrog avatar
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Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Moderibbit
@xantufrog avatar
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8892
Location: Atlanta, GA
UTC quote
I highly doubt your 3rd needs changing. It's a very strong gear IMO (although I have no experience dirtbiking and maybe it's just a "relative" thing). I think something else is wrong with the bike, assuming it's not just a matter of getting used to it.

If you shorten 3rd, 4th may become nigh unusable since it's already a bit long in the non-EFL. So you'll want to shorten 4th too
OP
@shampoo avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
P200E
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P200E
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UTC quote
I am going to record some audio of going from 1st to 2nd to 3rd with the throttle at say half open and maybe you can tell me if it sounds right to you or not.
@xantufrog avatar
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Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Posts: 8892
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Moderibbit
@xantufrog avatar
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8892
Location: Atlanta, GA
UTC quote
Sounds good. I always thought of 3 as the "tractor" gear on mine, just pulls and pulls
@christopher_55934 avatar
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Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
@christopher_55934 avatar
2007 Stella 225
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3547
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
UTC quote
What clutch cog do you have? Maybe someone put in a larger gear? What can you tell us about your scoot?

Factory cylinder?
Carburetor size?
Carburetor jets?
Exhaust pipe?
Clutch cog gear or tooth number?
Air filter?

If you don't know take lots of pictures post them here and we can help point you in correct direction.

As an example if you have a factory exhaust pipe going to something like a Polini or BGM touring will help with low end around town use.

https://scooterlab.uk/vespa-big-box-exhaust-shootout-feature-2/
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