OP
UTC

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2008 MP3 250ie and 2009 MP3 Sport 500 (Gilera Fuoco)
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Location: WA, USA
 
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UTC quote
Anyone have bad needle bearings on the swing arm? Would you please describe the symptom to me?

I know that it was discussed before Swing Arm Bushes A Design Fault? The author said it feels like going over ice.

I seek more detailed description because mine did not exactly feel the same. It only wander/swerves (rear) at high speed, especially changing lanes or hitting a bump. It also trails the grooves on the road at high speed (60+ mph).

Checked the rear wheel and it was fine, no loose part. Checked the swing arm, well, I'm not sure because on center stand it feels solid (no side to side movement), but it doesn't rule out bad bearing right?
@mono avatar
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Hooked
Hanway RAW50
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UTC quote
With the bike on the centerstand it's indeed hard to feel any play in the swingarm bearings. The weight of the engine and bike will keep both feet of the centerstand on the ground, that's why the rear wheel will feel solid, since it's connected to the engine and centerstand.

If the rear wheel feels solid when the bike is on the centerstand, and loose if it's only on tiltlock, then It's almost certainly the swingarm bearings as far as I can tell.

I bought my MP3 with worn out swingarm bearings, and it showed the same symptoms as yours, including the wandering at higher speeds.

You might want to fix this ASAP. If I'm not mistaken, someone on this forum experienced a serious case of tankslapper due to worn out swingarm bearings (might have been Maksor?).

By the way: you should check the front wheel bearings, steering head bearings and steering rod bearings as well, your problem might be related to those instead of (or in addition to) the swingarm bearings..
OP
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2008 MP3 250ie and 2009 MP3 Sport 500 (Gilera Fuoco)
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UTC quote
Thank you for the details. I am convinced that it is the swing arm symptoms.

The suspension head bearing notch would cause problem at all speed, if not less at high speed. I did have the steering head notch, and already replaced it.

Loose steering rod problem would be at high speed, and is easy to check. It's obvious when on tilt lock+center stand. So when the bike drop on one (locked) suspension, any play will be spotted. Anyway, eteering rod is nice and tight, the toe-in is small 0.1deg angle for highway speed. The left-right extreme (delta) steering angle differ <.5 Deg. I used the shim washer down to .1mm for this.

Thanks again, I know what to replace next
OP
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2008 MP3 250ie and 2009 MP3 Sport 500 (Gilera Fuoco)
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UTC quote
This bearing is rusted and stuck inside. Hammer and pin does nothing to it.
Would anyone be so kind giving me tips/tricks on removing these demn bearing?
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@new200guy avatar
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2019 MP3 500hpe Sport
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UTC quote
get some heat on it. Should help expand the housing enough to use an hammer and pin to get it out.
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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UTC quote
Hacksaw blade or miniature reciprocating saw:
https://www.amazon.com/Kavolet-Attachment-Electric-Reciprocating-Household/dp/B09Q8TVJWQ

When replacing, fill that whole tube with grease, and you'll never have to do this job again.
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MP3 500 HPE 2019
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UTC quote
actually would be easier without heat 24 hours in the freezer will contract the bearing, its the thing i do before installing any bearings.
new200guy wrote:
get some heat on it. Should help expand the housing enough to use an hammer and pin to get it out.
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UTC quote
Thing is, usually those needle bearings are rusted to buggery - there's eff-all grease on them from the factory, just what they came with from the original manufacturer. So heat and freezing are fine for the re-installation, but sadly probably won't help at all getting the damn thing out.
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Piaggio MP3 300ie
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UTC quote
Yeah I have done these a few time now as living in the UK they just rust.
Get a set of these from amazon.
If the shiny metal rods are rusted at the ends replace them too.
I have attached a picture of what the parts are in red and number 8 + 13 are the long rods.
Also replace the white plastic spacers that cover the bearing as if thye are worn the bearings will not last as long.

I am looking for a better solution to these, which I posted earlier in here.

Hope that helps
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
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2008 MP3 250ie and 2009 MP3 Sport 500 (Gilera Fuoco)
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UTC quote
new200guy wrote:
get some heat on it. Should help expand the housing enough to use an hammer and pin to get it out.
Yup, i got a blow torch . It won't stuck if it is liquid, right?
Quote:
Hacksaw blade or miniature reciprocating saw:
I don't work on motorcycle with a saw. Now that you mention it, Maybe I can lathe the heck out of this bearing.
Quote:
actually would be easier without heat 24 hours in the freezer will contract the bearing, its the thing i do before installing any bearings.
Sadly it rusted and fuse together. I will just get the whole assembly. Anyone in the US have spare? I am a patient man , just not that patient to wait for parts shipped from Europe. [/quote]
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Molto Verboso
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
easyparts.nl ships very quickly and worldwide at very reasonable prices (compared to Piaggio parts in the USA)
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Piaggio MP3 300ie
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UTC quote
Replacing for new is crazy. you are going to pay over 300 euro for a part you will still need bearing and the bars that go inside.
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Molto Verboso
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Where are you getting this crazy 300 amount from???

Easyparts.nl has the complete assembly incl bearings for about 43 Euro. See link

https://easyparts.nl/Complete-swinging-arm-on-frame-side-p33622749
@baboon99 avatar
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Piaggio MP3 300ie
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UTC quote
Ah, I, see what you are saying but if you look above in previous post all the parts I, have highlighted if you add all them up it come to more than 43 euros. That part is only for the shaft not all the other parts
Part 4 in diagram above has bearing in that too.
I know as I have replaced many times as my mp3 has over 40k now
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Molto Verboso
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
But the OP is only needing the swingarm assembly (see pic in post#4).
@baboon99 avatar
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Piaggio MP3 300ie
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UTC quote
I can guarantee that all 4 bearing will need changing. on both parts.
OP
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2008 MP3 250ie and 2009 MP3 Sport 500 (Gilera Fuoco)
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UTC quote
Quote:
But the OP is only needing the swingarm assembly (see pic in post#4).
True
Quote:
I can guarantee that all 4 bearing will need changing. on both parts.
Also true, I already bought the bearings for replacement. When I finish the job, the trapezoid shape can slide side-to-side small amount , aprx 1mm. Is this normal?

Also, have you experienced random 'wandering', more pronounce at higher speed. The wanders feel like it's in the rear wheel. When 'wander' happens, the bike suddenly lean to the left (or right) then back. Not as severe as tank slapper, but kind of feels as if I purposefully swerve the bike to avoid pot holes (except I didn't).

I just changed all the bearings, the part sbaer recommended, new balanced tires. The wander is less but still there!
Is this the symptoms of bad silent block/engine mount? What else should I check?
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UTC quote
If the whole assembly is $30, that's probably less than the price of the bearings.
That being said, who wants to wait?

That inside puller looks trick

Bearing removal method of last resort

Cut the bearing housing or race with a dremel cut-off or diamond or stone burr
Make 3 cuts & pry out the bits with screwdriver, punch, needle nose, visegrip

Polish whatever marks you leave in the swingarm
The damage has to be pretty serious before the structural integrity of swingarm is affected.
UTC

Molto Verboso
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
mnle wrote:
...
Also, have you experienced random 'wandering', more pronounce at higher speed. The wanders feel like it's in the rear wheel. When 'wander' happens, the bike suddenly lean to the left (or right) then back. Not as severe as tank slapper, but kind of feels as if I purposefully swerve the bike to avoid pot holes (except I didn't).

...
Sounds like this "wandering" could be rear axle end play or loose wheel bolts.
@baboon99 avatar
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Piaggio MP3 300ie
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Piaggio MP3 300ie
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UTC quote
Wandering could be the silent block. something I always replace when doing the bearings.
How many miles on the scoot. as I have also changed the engine mounts. mine has done 40k now.

One way to check is lock the front brake and give it a little accelerate, if you see or feel the engine move sideways its either of the above.

Engine bushes are easy to replace just need use the above puller.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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