Modern Vespa

So back in October I bought a very broken BMW R1100RT from a dealer while knowing just how broken it was. It was $1250 worth of broken.

I gave it to an independent BMW technician with over 40 years of experience to fix "everything" and then I patiently waited 2 months for it all to be completed.

I finally collected it and paid the $2900 bill only to look down and see that oil was pissing past both the heads and all over my boots. A fork seal also had gone pop after being replaced, so back it went.

I collected it a second time and then soon after took it on a 1000 mile ride across France in an effort to prove something.

Soon after that it started to leak from the back of the gearbox and my local dealership diagnosed that a gearbox output shaft seal had failed.

Helpful though that was they informed me that they don't have the tools or the experience to dismantle the entire back end of the bike so someone else would have to do it.

As the bike has over 50,000 miles on it the clutch may well need replacing so my mission began to find someone to do the job -

No1, I dropped into another independent BMW tech and pointed out the leak and asked for a quote but he appeared utterly disinterested in working on it and was so indifferent I'm amazed that he has any customers at all so I rode home with a flea in my ear.

No2, I emailed a local independent dealer for a quote. They sell used BMW's so I assumed that their techs can work on a RT but no reply has arrived after a week of waiting.

No3, I called my closest franchised BMW dealership leaving a long and detailed message when no one answered the phone and that about a week ago. Nothing yet.

No4, A friend of mine works at the Parts Dept at another franchised dealership about 4 hours away and he said he'd try and get a quote also. Nothing yet.

No5, Another friend of mine is the Health and Safety Executive at another group that has two BMW franchises to choose from and he also said he'd enquire with the After Sales Team as to costs and availbility. Yup you've guessed it. Nada.

Attempt No6 will be on Friday when the Moto Guzzi and I are going to track down another independent, just for shits and giggles.

Now I want to give people money to fix my bike because to ride it's pretty bloody amazing when it works so why isn't anyone in a rush to work on it ?

Answers on a postcard

Hey Bill, this is an old airhead? Very cool bikes. Good luck with your quest for service.

Well, scheiss, Bill…this is truly surprising. We're not talking an exotic Beemer here (however nice this particular one is), so I'm utterly stumped. Something they know that you or I don't? 0-for-5 (hopefully not going on 6) makes absolutely no sense.

(EDIT: Just remembered Bill's isn't quite the simple ride I was thinking of...thanks for the reminder, Tierney.)

Traded for a k1100lt 1994
It had been stolen & the keys lost at some point
The ignition only required a screw driver, still a key for the luggage & helmet lock would be handy
Looked it up online & found the official bmw lost key portal
Emailed proof of ownership, recounted my financial history in some detail over the phone, was assured I would get a pair of replacement keys in the mail in a couple weeks
After a month passed, I called when I noticed the $100 fee had been returned
The guy on the phone was nearly contrite & suggested I contact a dealer
I contacted a dealer who assured me no problem took my money again
Another month, no replacement keys & the blanks were non-returnable
I filed up a couple of working keys, using the cylinder from the top box
Somewhere a bankers box full of owner records got tossed or never digitized
No one could ever just come out & say something resembling the truth...

Sold the bike, slipping clutch, plugged injectors & no desire to build fixtures so I could do the work
The thing was made to ride long distance, reasonable in the twisties, ok on hardpack dirt roads
The nice suspension had a price
The seat height left me on my tippy toes at a light, just a little too much weight for me to 2up on

Are you sure it's the bike they don't want to deal with?

Find a snowmobile, go kart, lawn mower, motocross bike shop and bring them the needed parts. That's what I do.

Not an Airhead. This is a 600 lb. touring machine, full fairing with 4 valve heads. The Airheads are quite simple in comparison, easy to work on and are true classics. This bike is a couple generations later, but unfortunately old enough so no one wants to work on them. Parts are not exactly easy to get for them, at least here in the states and are a bit expensive to maintain. It some ways, it is the same for the BMW cars. The classics are easy to keep on the road and have quite a follow. Get an in between one, say, 20 years old and you are behind the eight ball from day one. My son had a Z4, was totaled with him in it when I guy T-boned him in an intersection. MY son escaped with minor injuries and I was happy we did not have to work on it anymore as something was always going wrong. Mind you, when it was running well, it was a great driving car. But his present WRX is better all around. And reliable

This is killing my desire for an R1100S

I had a 97 K1100LT that ate the clutch splines (a well known underengineered deal on those bikes).

$3k+ at the local BMW shop to fix

Hell, the bike was not worth that much, I figured I'd buy the parts and see if I could do it having never cracked a moto in half before. Took a few days of labor but was able to do it myself and get many thousand more miles out of that machine before I sold it. I was fortunate in that I did not need a press or much in the way of specialty tooling. But I did have to literally split the thing in half.

I think that's just life with the roundel. If you look at the FJR forums or the wing forums people complain about .... pretty much nothing needing repair. Thats a generalization but for the most part nobodys complaining about things broken or at least nothing major.

On the BMW forums something is always busted and its not cheap to have (others) fix.

I'm slightly soured on the brand but for the weight / size / performance / looks when they work --- damn fine machines.

Technically it's an oil head and getting hold of parts for it has never been a problem however getting someone to work on it "willingly" is.

Like the cars they do have a tendency to fall apart in an expensive fashion after 50,000 miles but it's all forgiven when you ride it because they are incredible when they are working.

My argument is that if you do this for a living and I'm prepared to give you money to fix my bike why don't you return the call or the email and then you can have more money.

It really shouldn't be this difficult.

I have the same bike as Bill Dog, even the same color. We've been communicating via email for months discussing them.

Addendum to Tierney's comments. I'm pretty sure the R1100X was the model directly after the airhead models were discontinued. The airheads were called such because the engine was air-cooled. The R1100X started selling in 1994 and last last year for the R1100X was early 2001. BMW sold a number of variants on the R1100 such as the R1100R, R1100S, R1100RT - all road bikes. They also sold R1100GS which is an off-road adventure bike. All R1100X models are powered by a "boxer" engine, a horizontal twin. The R1100RT was BMW's premiere touring bike. The R1100X engine was oil-cooled (with a radiator in the front of the bike) as well as air-cooled, the pistons were finned and outside the fairing and engineered venting in the fairing guided air onto the engine when underway. Each R1100X model was fairly unique and some parts were interchangeable but many were not. Some parts were not compatible amongst the years in production. The R1100RT was the most popular model, especially amongst cross-country touring riders. The bike is quite simple to maintain. There's virtually no electronics except the fuel injection and ABS. Otherwise, I thought the basic maintenance was not too different than my GTV250. Fluids, except for the brake fluid, is relatively easy and doesn't require any special tooling. The ABS is a bit more complicated and I've just left that to my mechanic. Similarly with synronizing the fuel injection which requires a bit of training, experience and special tools I don't have or want. The R1100RT was also adopted by many municipalities, state, and federal governments in the US and many other countries around the world for police bikes. The R1100RT-P versions are really mongrels because each municipality ordered or modified for their own purposes and no two are really alike.

Despite its 620 lbs wet, it handles surprisingly well and is quite nimble. It will accelerate 0-60 in 4-ish seconds and go 125 mph (I've not verified either of these claims), tho riding it the city is a PITA IMO, like any clutched motorcycle. The design draws from elements of the Art Deco era and is quite different from their earlier bikes, especially the airheads which looked utilitarian IMO, and the more modern version (BMW still sells the RT bikes tho the engine are a bit larger - 1250cc vs 1100cc - and have 135 horsepower vs 90 hp in the R1100RT. Parts are still readily available in the US and from BMW in Germany. Parts are expensive, tho there are many bike salvagers that offer parts and there's still a fair supply of after-market parts available.

My factory-trained, independent BMW mechanic told me to just keep gas and oil in it and stay up on the maintenance and it will run forever. Experienced oilhead mechanics are far and few between and I'm thankful I have on about 25 minutes away. He's been fantastic. My bike has 117K miles and I've seen many at my mechanics shop with > 200K miles. The previous owner of my bike was a mechanic on aircraft carriers in the US Navy and kept impeccable records that I think echoed the depth of notes he kept on the work he did on aircraft carriers. I've not had any problems and would not hesitate to ride my R1100RT across the US, if I had any interest in doing that.

It's a great bike, smooth, quiet, comfortable, fast, solid. And I love riding it.

Back to Bill Dog's dilemma... Bill Dog, top dollar for the R1100RT in the US is about $4K for a specimen in excellent condition. Presuming that prices are similar in the UK, you've already invested $4K+ in the bike. I'm guessing that the dealer is going to charge you the equivalent of $1200 to fix that rear seal and more if you replace the clutch. You'll then be over invested in what you'd be able to sell the bike for once fixed. If you keep it, you don't know if other problems will emerge. If it were me, I wouldn't put more money in it given that you don't have a known, reliable, experienced oilhead mechanic. Again, just my personal choice if I had to make it: I'd accept I'm going to take a loss and sell it to someone who can fix the bike; or trade it in and make the moral choice about being honest with a dealer on it's problems; or part it out which I think is a PITA; or sell it to a MC salvage yard; or maybe something else I hadn't thought of. Then I'd buy another one but with a known history of maintenance and repairs.

Personally, I'm not laughing at your "Funny Story" Bill dog, I am sorry this has happened to you. You've my deepest sympathies mate. OTOH, it is just money.

Miguel

A minor update.

A franchised dealer is currently working on a quote for me but this surely suggests that they havn't done it before.........

BMW Motorrad price to replace the driveshaft oil seal and the clutch $2469.00

Just sayin.

Money burning a hole in your pocket. Why not get it running and ride it? You've gone this far!

Eee-ow.

Sigh. Never thought it would be this involved. I sorta get that sentiment, assuming one has the extra dosh. Nonetheless...

Just waiting for two independents to get back and we'll go from there.

Makes you wonder. Perhaps business is so good that service departments (in this case) have the flexibility to be selective on what jobs they take in, and the margin for the job you are requesting is low?

Not quite the same thing, but I recall being a younger fellow with a 69 Plymouth Fury III that had some rust that I wanted fixed. This would have been late 90's. No body shop wanted to touch it. Finally one shop owner flat out old me that the money (for them) was working with insurance companies and replacing plastic body panels and it just wasn't worth it for them.

Miguel, Thanks for the schooling. I have a old friend who lives in west Georgia that knows BMWs. He has taken several long trips including crossing the Sahara, Africa, India all over Europe and of course Australia as that is his native country. But he did all this with a wife, and child on a BMW GS model. The guy is truly an amazing fellow. Anyhow, when I was into Airheads, occasionally someone would come to his shop by on an Oilhead , so I got to work on as well as ride a few. He had, however, told me not to buy one, too much to keep and run. Fantastic Machines and like most BMWs, high mileage was not unheard of. What put it off for me is what you already mentioned : high prices on parts and labor. The para- lever (hope I got that right) drive shaft system was supposed to be superior to the old one, but honestly, I could not see it. The electronics, 4 valve heads and FI were a definite improvement, but I saw nothing wrong with the old system that I understood and could fix on my own. I guess in the end, I was not willing to change for a newer machine anymore than my learned friend.. They are a fantastic ride, no doubt. Get the right machine and you can look forward to a very long relationship. Get the wrong, uncared for one with hidden troubles, and it is a very deep money pit. I glad you are enjoying yours, but if I had the coin, I would get a 1973 750/5 with the toaster tank. In green. Loved that bike.

I went into this little project knowing that it was going to be expensive but that's not the part of it that bothers me, because after all it's a BMW.

It's the fact that if I'm willing to spend more money to put these things right why aren't workshops ( Independent and Franchised ) more willing to respond to an enquiry if that's how they initially generate business ?

A quote and a lead time was all I was asking for and to be fair they are coming in now but for about 7 days there wasn't a response from anyone. Well apart from those who didn't want to work on it

They will take your money. Just be patient

Patience isn't my Strong Suit.

I think that it's called a juztaposition when I visted 3 local businesses recently - a Restaurant, a Tyre Shop and an Optitian in the past week and I received exceptional Customer Service from all 3.

5 * Tripadvisor kind of Customer Service but ask for a quote to repair a particular brand of motorcycle and it all goes south.

One franchised dealer has actually declined to do the work and another one just won't respond.

So funny.

Old tech and patience go hand in hand.

Your situation reminds me of time some years back, when I lusted after an old BMW Z3 M coupe, the famous 'bread van'.

Not because it was particularly good to drive, nor because it was good looking, or practical, but...well, it was THE bread van.

My friend talked me over it, having some experience in BMW ownership, including maintaining some performance models. They require both a thick wallet AND patience. Mine was not enough at either front.

Sorry to hear about he ordeal and hope you get that beauty on the road. I can tell you that here getting a new BMW in for basic maintenance can be a PITA.

I know 3 dealers pretty well and outside of the Ural dealer (for reasons) all of them are crazy busy. I also know that getting quality mechanics is apparently a real chore as there seem to be less and less of them available. The BMW dealer here use to only hire most of them for the season. However seeing as it was so hard to get a good mechanic they have since kept them all on year round and in the winter focus on training.

Lastly parts - Everything seems to be so much harder to get now especially if there is a silicon chip involved. The BMW Motored manager here has been told that there are no accessories/apparel available for him to order this year and even next year might be tight.

Good luck Bill, the R1100RT is a beaut.

nope

That 'clown shoe" describes the car even better, never heard that before!

I'll guess specific bread vans are getting more rare day by day. Also, I'll guess the mock name for Z3 coupe comes mostly from the 30's (?) style American bread/panel trucks. Typical European bread vans have mostly been quite boxy and utilitarian.

Thank you.

If the RT wasn't such a missile and a hoot to ride I'd probably just dump it for a loss and treat it as a lesson learnt however ........

Today after getting the Moto Guzzi its first MOT I went looking for another independent BMW tech in South London and what a bloody contrast !

I got a warm welcome, he listened patiently to my story then asked for a few important details and then gave me a best and a worst case quote/scenario which was at least 2/3rds lower than the Motorrad dealers prices.

He was exceptionally engaging, professional and honest plus he even liked the Moto Guzzi so I'm pretty certain I've found the guy who's going to resolve the RT's problems.

Fantastic!!

I did a little looking on a BMW site yesterday about replacing the seal. Some of the posters talked about replacing it in-situ. That would be great!! Miguel

I'm pretty certain that the clutch is going to be replaced while the block is in two pieces as it's still on the original so the seal can go in then.

You know if I don't put a new one in it will die within weeks of the rebulid.

Thought I would share this BMW that was a the Bike Shed show. The bloke that did this would certainly know what to do. Glad you found someone who can fix it at last.

I'm not sure that boxer is the best bike to build a scrambler out of especially with the engine being so exposed.

No sump guard either. Having said that some Hipster will probably be very happy with it.

I think currently there's more work out there than available staff in quite a few industries. My mate waited about 10 months to get his Skoda Yeti gearbox problem sorted by an independent. He could have paid the local Skoda dealership 3 x what he eventually paid and maybe got it back sooner.

Like most things, Brexit is probably a factor in all this?

Fixing up old stuff is the new buying new stuff!

How is Brexit a factor in this ?

Miserable independent techs and over priced franchised dealers were a thing before we left Europe.

I've seen BMW dealer workshops working on those 1100 machines.
To replace the clutch, you start at the rear mudguard and take all the bits off until you've removed the gearbox. VOILA! There is the clutch assembly.

There are techies that can do it by removing the rear wheel, undoing the pivot bolts and then hoisting the entire rear end out and up with gearbox attached.

PS - I spent a very pleasant weekend on a silver R1100RT touring the Eastern Free State 15 or so years ago. Great bike to ride!

Possibly basing my thoughts on personal experience whereby we are having to turn work down due to lack of fixers nowadays whereas before, I'd get on the blower to Uri or Sergei and ask if their lads could take on some of the work. Admittedly we're in the building industry.

In the last few years, ADVs are all the rage, everyone wants to take road bikes and build ADV machines out of them. It's nothing new, builders used to take road bikes and turn them into duel sport bikes. Then take dirt bikes and turn them into road bikes, supermotos, etc....It's all about achieving the balance you want without splashing out big bucks for a factor purpose built scoot.

Indeed, BMW's latest adventure bike, the BMW R1250GS, is BMW's most popular model by far. It's great on the trails and on the road. BMW has used the GS suffix for decades to designate their adventure models. My friend Anthony, who has a 2014 R1200GS, tells me it's the best motorcycle he's ever had. He's taken several BMW adventure riding classes on the R1250GS and says the newer bikes are a bit nicer but not dramatically enough for him to upgrade, yet. There are rumors of an R1300RT and R1300GS on the horizon. (BMW has used the RT suffix for decades to designate there road touring models.)

Despite the shortcoming pointed out about the custom BMW scrambler posted by Dunkyc, I always appreciate seeing customized naked bikes and admiring their simplicity in visual design. I've never designed a motor and don't have the skills but I've often wondered how much effort is put into the aesthetics. Personally, I think the engine and drive train is gorgeous.

Miguel

Just to give a brief update, another independent dealer declined to work on the bike today, so that's 3 Motorrad dealers that don't want to know, 3 Independent BMW workshops that aren't interested and 1 generic dealer that have thrown their hands up.

I'm now counting on one independent and if that falls apart, one Motorrad.

Easy Peasey.

At this point, you should receive some sort of trophy. I'm not entirely joking.

I honestly think that it's funny that it's the bike that no one wants to work on.

Maybe not just the bike but the particular repair that people are running and hiding from.

The offer for the R18 is still open but that way madness lies.

What offer for the R18?
Miguel