@fudmucker avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2021 GTS 300 HPE +2013 GTS 300ie + 294 Polini
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2075
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
 
Ossessionato
@fudmucker avatar
2021 GTS 300 HPE +2013 GTS 300ie + 294 Polini
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2075
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
UTC quote
It is a very sad situation in modern society where those who do NOT participate in any particular sport decide to ban that sport for those who DO participate.

It is like letting vegans decide to ban the eating of meat. What The? emoticon

If it causes harm to non-participants, improve safety conditions.
(Spectators are participants)

Ban the TT?
The thin edge of the wedge to ban all motorcycle sport...
then all motorsport...
then all human powered sport...
then all sport.

Sit at a gaming console and be safe? ROFL emoticon
@bill_dog avatar
UTC

eeeee bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20638
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
 
eeeee bip
@bill_dog avatar
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20638
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
UTC quote
With one recent exception Sweden banned motorsport back in 1958.

What a happy bunch of funsters.
@waspmike avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold) Now Honda Zoomer X
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4129
Location: Kingdom of Lanna
 
Ossessionato
@waspmike avatar
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold) Now Honda Zoomer X
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4129
Location: Kingdom of Lanna
UTC quote
The Swiss banned it in 1955.

But they may be having a rethink.
@bill_dog avatar
UTC

eeeee bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20638
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
 
eeeee bip
@bill_dog avatar
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20638
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
UTC quote
It was roughly around the 2h mark of the Le Mans 24h race in 1955, when Frenchman Pierre Levegh lost control of his car on the start-finish straight after a collision, crashing into the main grandstand at more than 250km/h. The crash killed 85 people including Levegh and left more than 100 injured, making it one if the sports most tragic incidents.

Shortly after, heated discussions about the future of motorsports were sparked all over Europe – and especially in Switzerland. Lead by the church, the issue was brought up in government and after three years, circuit racing was officially prohibited. The ban does not include hill climbs and such, but for a country that hosted several Formula 1 races before, the government's decision to ban public circuit racing came as a huge blow. Although the government had the right to make an exception for certain events, motorsport was basically done.
@pigletpilot avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Gina, 1965 Vespa 180SS, Bella,1968 Vespa 150 Super, Mia, 2017 Vespa Primavera 70th Anniversary 150ie, Gabriella, 2017 GTS300 ABS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1896
Location: Hamilton/Kirikiriroa, NZ
 
Molto Verboso
@pigletpilot avatar
Gina, 1965 Vespa 180SS, Bella,1968 Vespa 150 Super, Mia, 2017 Vespa Primavera 70th Anniversary 150ie, Gabriella, 2017 GTS300 ABS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1896
Location: Hamilton/Kirikiriroa, NZ
UTC quote
I sit in the camp of letting the race carry on as it's the choice of the riders to compete. I seem to recall that I read a statistic in New Zealand that the most dangerous pastime in terms of deaths per year was - fishing! No suggestion of banning that. I always thought lawn bowls was dangerous due to the average age and drinking habits of the participants.
Those participants at the Isle of Man TT who decide the dangers are too high don't go back.
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14966
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14966
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
UTC quote
total and utter horseshit.

anybody entering the TT knows full and well the risks.

there's a reason many professional riders (Rossi, for one) were not allowed to compete in the TT. it's inherently dangerous. cuz, DUH riding at racetrack speeds on open roads.

I fully agree limiting the danger would be a great thing.

but ultimately? the race is what it is. look at Monaco. look at le man. talladega. shit, even dover downs-- at a horse race no less!

you punch your ticket. you know what you signed up for. end of. push it too far and pay the price.

shit, I could fall down and bust my head wide ass open walking across the street to go buy pork chops or get run over while riding a 50 to go get bagles tomorrow morning a block from my house. but, there's the catch. I didn't knowingly sign up for a road race.
OP
@harbinger avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2023 Arancia Impulsivo Vespa GTS300 HPE , 2022 BMW R1250GSA 40th Anniversary, 2019 Ural Gear Up
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8508
Location: Toronto
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@harbinger avatar
2023 Arancia Impulsivo Vespa GTS300 HPE , 2022 BMW R1250GSA 40th Anniversary, 2019 Ural Gear Up
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8508
Location: Toronto
UTC quote
greasy125 wrote:
total and utter horseshit.

anybody entering the TT knows full and well the risks.

you punch your ticket. you know what you signed up for. end of. push it too far and pay the price.

shit, I could fall down and bust my head wide ass open walking across the street to go buy pork chops or get run over while riding a 50 to go get bagles tomorrow morning a block from my house. but, there's the catch. I didn't knowingly sign up for a road race.
True enough.

Hell I got slammed hard by an Uber driver literary while on the way to get a baguette and some cheese at the local market. Apparently the Uber app is more important than checking your mirrors and blind spot when it says your pickup is on the wrong intersection. The only reason I have a jaw and a face right now is I had my modular helmet closed and the visor down.

On the bright side very European as I was on my Vespa (RIP) and I even went down on cobblestone.
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14966
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14966
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
UTC quote
Harbinger wrote:
True enough.

Hell I got slammed hard by an Uber driver literary while on the way to get a baguette and some cheese at the local market. Apparently the Uber app is more important than checking your mirrors and blind spot when it says your pickup is on the wrong intersection. The only reason I have a jaw and a face right now is I had my modular helmet closed and the visor down.

On the bright side very European as I was on my Vespa (RIP) and I even went down on cobblestone.
we ride. we know the risks. I've stacked my fair share of 'em. lucky enough to not have any metal in me.

but that's the known entity. there is inherent risk in riding.

if you're racing-- two or four wheels-- you know there is fundamental, known risk. you signed up for it. nobody forced you. racing is a dangerous sport. I done rolled up a Porsche into a ball at Sebring. paid for my ticket and took the ride. I was lucky to kinda, sorta walk away. rolled and wrecked other junk too. but, again: I signed up for it knowing full well what the outcome could possibly be.

you don't go race the TT without knowing the game. everybody there has spun the wheel and some come up double black.
@gbaby avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Modern Primavera (not pictured); Moto Guzzi V-85 TT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1737
Location: Los Angeles, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@gbaby avatar
Modern Primavera (not pictured); Moto Guzzi V-85 TT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1737
Location: Los Angeles, CA
UTC quote
Seems pretty clear how things would go if it were up to us here, but is there any actual movement to ban the races?
OP
@harbinger avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2023 Arancia Impulsivo Vespa GTS300 HPE , 2022 BMW R1250GSA 40th Anniversary, 2019 Ural Gear Up
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8508
Location: Toronto
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@harbinger avatar
2023 Arancia Impulsivo Vespa GTS300 HPE , 2022 BMW R1250GSA 40th Anniversary, 2019 Ural Gear Up
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8508
Location: Toronto
UTC quote
GBaby wrote:
Seems pretty clear how things would go if it were up to us here, but is there any actual movement to ban the races?
The father/son team that died in the sidecar drew a lot of attention. I don't think a ban is coming but in today's world you never know.

Here is a good recent article.

https://www.autosport.com/roadracing/news/the-moral-complexities-of-the-isle-of-man-tt-that-cant-be-ignored-/10321467/
@old_as_dirt avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22547
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@old_as_dirt avatar
2007 GTS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 22547
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
UTC quote
Racing on closed courses is dangerous whether its in the woods, tracks , street circuits, cross country baja style stuff. no 1 person is forced into lining up at the start line NOT 1. It is a choice they choos. Same goes with spectators along side ANY course watching. they choose to be there, none of the were forced to stand there .

some folks were chosen to stand in line in the late 30's-40's and their fait was decided by 1 person , they had no choice.

I like my freedom to choose. I am sure all those who race like to choose for themselves.
@fudmucker avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2021 GTS 300 HPE +2013 GTS 300ie + 294 Polini
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2075
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
 
Ossessionato
@fudmucker avatar
2021 GTS 300 HPE +2013 GTS 300ie + 294 Polini
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2075
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
UTC quote
I think all BEDS should be banned.
The number of people who die in them is staggering. What The? emoticon
@rrider avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Triumph Bonneville 2022, Triumph Street Scrambler 2018 (sold), Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3152
Location: Finland
 
Ossessionato
@rrider avatar
Triumph Bonneville 2022, Triumph Street Scrambler 2018 (sold), Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3152
Location: Finland
UTC quote
To add to the complexity of safety:

It has been academically studied, and is kind of obvious too, that a skilled motorcycle racer utilizes both 'long term' accumulated skills AND repetative in-situ skills from the particular track/course in hand.

Mastering 'the perfect line' (with everything this includes), is a combo of all the experience of doing something like this before, the experience of doing excatly the same line before and being able to adapt yourself.

One of the key challenges for TT, as well as any road circuits today is that as riders nowadays race mainly on dedicated circuits, the 'learnings' may, and too often do backfire on the road.

...so, should the riders actually ride MORE at TT, mayby have a dedicated 'TT pass' to participate....?
@bill_dog avatar
UTC

eeeee bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20638
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
 
eeeee bip
@bill_dog avatar
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20638
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
UTC quote
Doing something risky on a motorcycle looks far more dangerous from a spectators point of view than the riders.

Just sayin.
@seamus26 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2463
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
 
Ossessionato
@seamus26 avatar
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2463
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
UTC quote
Fudmucker wrote:
I think all BEDS should be banned.
The number of people who die in them is staggering. What The? emoticon
Next you'll be saying we should ban marriage because while nearly 50% end in divorce, the remainder always end in death.

Talk about risky. ROFL emoticon
UTC

Hooked
2019 MP3 500 Sport
Joined: UTC
Posts: 263
Location: California
 
Hooked
2019 MP3 500 Sport
Joined: UTC
Posts: 263
Location: California
UTC quote
I have ridden on the course - I'd never even try to ride particularly spiritedly around it, there are many scary places with mossy old walls right by and zero run off, tons of shady areas were you could get caught out by a moist spot and what not!

To just imagine what these guys do is crazy! *But* there's no way I'd vote to abolish it. There are many activities that are dangerous. Just two weekends ago in a park near me, I saw a hang glider go down somewhere and didn't think much of it (I wasn't near). Later on I read someone had died and someone else got badly injured. A few years ago, in a pedestrian bridge underpass in the park right in front of my house, two bicyclists collided and one died, the other suffered horrible injuries. There are also the people that jump of peaks in Yosemite in bat squirrel suits and several have crashed against rocks over time. Deep diving etc etc

And then again, avoiding all those doesn't mean a coconut won't smash your skull in during your next vacation. Life has but one outcome eventually.
@giallo avatar
UTC

Addicted
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 794
Location: NYC
 
Addicted
@giallo avatar
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 794
Location: NYC
UTC quote
Statement from ACU Events Ltd., the organizers of the Isle of Man TT races:

"ACU Events Ltd, race organisers of the Isle of Man TT Races have confirmed that a comprehensive investigative process is being followed for each of the serious incidents that occurred during the 2022 Isle of Man TT Races.

The investigations systematically analyse every aspect of these incidents using established root cause methodology. A multi-professional team involving all partner organisations reviews the events that occurred and recommendations on the way the event will be delivered in the future will be made.

"After every incident we work tirelessly to understand the circumstances, establish key learning and implement changes as soon as possible," TT Clerk of the Course, Gary Thompson MBE, BEM. 'Any fatality during an event is a tragedy. As an organisation we promise to take any actions that can help improve safety and undertake this at the earliest opportunity."


I think the situation is the following, yes motorsport is risky, but too much risk and sponsors and insurance companies will re-evaluate what that risk is worth to them. No matter what a participant wants to risk, there are forces at play that will want to minimize exposure to what we saw during the last Isle of Man TT
DoubleGood Design banner

Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.

Buy Me A Coffee
 

Shop on Amazon with Modern Vespa

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com


All Content Copyright 2005-2024 by Modern Vespa.
All Rights Reserved.


[ Time: 0.0133s ][ Queries: 3 (0.0058s) ][ live ][ 313 ][ ThingOne ]