Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:44 pm

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41074
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41074
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:44 pm linkquote
znomit wrote:
An EV makes up for the carbon used in manufacture in one year of average driving.
That all depends on how the electricity is generated. If you're mostly hydro, geo-thermal, wind, wave or tide then it's about 30,000 miles. If it's all coal, it's more like 300,000 miles.
Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:25 pm

eeee-bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child, Moto Guzzi V9 Bobber, Kawasaki KLV 1000 Godzilla
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 18518
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
 
eeee-bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child, Moto Guzzi V9 Bobber, Kawasaki KLV 1000 Godzilla
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 18518
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:25 pm linkquote
This is worth watching and may change your view on EV's.

Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:46 pm

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8848
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 8848
Location: Atlanta, GA
Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:46 pm linkquote
Madison Sully wrote:
I paid about $35,000 for a new car in 1999. $24,000 in 2008 is hardly "steep".


Oh, and that car I bought? 18-20 MPG.
I was thinking the same - that's hardly an expensive car in 2008. It's not one of the cheapest options, sure, but C'mon
Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:35 pm

Ossessionato
2015 GTS 300 Super (Melody: 2015-2021, RIP) 2022 GTS SuperTech (Thelonica)
Joined: 22 Apr 2015
Posts: 3500
Location: Asbury Park, NJ
 
Ossessionato
2015 GTS 300 Super (Melody: 2015-2021, RIP) 2022 GTS SuperTech (Thelonica)
Joined: 22 Apr 2015
Posts: 3500
Location: Asbury Park, NJ
Fri Jun 17, 2022 6:35 pm linkquote
Bill Dog wrote:
Save the planet and just buy a smaller car.
Sigh…how I wish. Not the thing for folks in these parts.
Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:29 am

Molto Verboso
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
Joined: 31 Jul 2014
Posts: 1453
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
 
Molto Verboso
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
Joined: 31 Jul 2014
Posts: 1453
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:29 am linkquote
Bill Dog wrote:
This is worth watching and may change your view on EV's.

That's a nice video. I've posted that elsewhere.

The thing that he doesn't take into account is this. He makes the statement that you "Need to generate the electricity to charge the EV and that creates CO2, and petrol creates CO2 every time you start the thing up."

He's comparing the output of the ICE to the input of the EV. There's a lot of talk about "energy supply" for the EV, but very little, if anything about the "energy supply" for the ICE, just emissions during driving.

Here's a comparison.

Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:52 am

eeee-bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child, Moto Guzzi V9 Bobber, Kawasaki KLV 1000 Godzilla
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 18518
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
 
eeee-bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child, Moto Guzzi V9 Bobber, Kawasaki KLV 1000 Godzilla
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 18518
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:52 am linkquote
I have to admit, he raises some very good points.

It's the voice of Kryton from Red Dwarf.
Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:18 am

Addicted
2018 GTS300 & 2015 GTS300 Super [sold]
Joined: 26 Sep 2017
Posts: 728
Location: Connecticut, USA
 
Addicted
2018 GTS300 & 2015 GTS300 Super [sold]
Joined: 26 Sep 2017
Posts: 728
Location: Connecticut, USA
Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:18 am linkquote
In the video, the point was made that an EV car needs to travel 90,000 miles before it "breaks" even with the comparable IC car's emissions. Any car should be in service for at least 90k miles, right? Unless a car is rendered undrivable due to accident, it should easily "last" beyond 90k? What company's cars die before 90k?? Let me know and I'll make sure I avoid that make…

Plus, at least for a certain segment in the U.S, the environmental benefits of EVs are secondary or entirely unimportant. IMO, there are lots of reasons EVs are more desirable than IC vehicles, but I'd say economics is the driver of their future adoption here in the States. With gasoline at $5 per gallon, more and more people who actually USE trucks are starting to see the benefits of the new EV Ford F-150 and Chevy Silverado vs. their IC versions. When your career involves towing lawn mowers from site-to-site, and now you are feeding your giant truck (and mowers) $5 per gallon fuel that used to cost half of that, suddenly solar panels and an EV truck seem like a really good idea.
Sat Jun 18, 2022 9:44 am

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41074
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41074
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sat Jun 18, 2022 9:44 am linkquote
seamus26 wrote:
He's comparing the output of the ICE to the input of the EV. There's a lot of talk about "energy supply" for the EV, but very little, if anything about the "energy supply" for the ICE, just emissions during driving.


A good observation, a point which many miss. Exploring for oil, getting it out of the ground and refining it produces a hell of lot of noxious stuff, but that's rarely referred to when EVs and ICE vehicles are compared.
Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:08 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer, 2001 BMW R1100RT
Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 5435
Location: Santa Cruz California
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer, 2001 BMW R1100RT
Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 5435
Location: Santa Cruz California
Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:08 pm linkquote
seamus26 wrote:
The thing that he doesn't take into account is this. He makes the statement that you "Need to generate the electricity to charge the EV and that creates CO2, and petrol creates CO2 every time you start the thing up."

He's comparing the output of the ICE to the input of the EV. There's a lot of talk about "energy supply" for the EV, but very little, if anything about the "energy supply" for the ICE, just emissions during driving.

The ICE world called the end-to-end environmental impact "Well-to-wheel". Lot of materials on it too.

Miguel
Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:17 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer, 2001 BMW R1100RT
Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 5435
Location: Santa Cruz California
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer, 2001 BMW R1100RT
Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 5435
Location: Santa Cruz California
Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:17 pm linkquote
The mobile mechanics ran late on Friday so coming on Monday to replace the batteries on my bro's Prius. Miguel
Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:18 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer, 2001 BMW R1100RT
Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 5435
Location: Santa Cruz California
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer, 2001 BMW R1100RT
Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 5435
Location: Santa Cruz California
Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:18 pm linkquote
The mobile mechanics ran late on Friday so coming on Monday to replace the batteries on my bro's Prius. I asked him to take some pics for me. More on Monday. Miguel
Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:58 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer, 2001 BMW R1100RT
Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 5435
Location: Santa Cruz California
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer, 2001 BMW R1100RT
Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 5435
Location: Santa Cruz California
Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:58 pm linkquote
The mobile mechanic replaced my bro Stephen's Prius' battery. It took all of 20 minutes. The battery itself was about 6" x 9" x 30" (150mm x 225mm x 750mm if I did the math right) - not very big, nor heavy. The new battery was fully charged.

Before the installation, the tech connected on a OBD tool and scanned for codes. He saw the code for the exhausted battery and cleared it. He also found a few other unrelated codes.

After fully installing, he scanned for codes again and didn't find any. All the dashboard lights worked normal. The tech then took it for a drive and told my bro it's working normally.

The company guaranteed the battery for the life of the car for an additional $25. Stephen told me the company had great online reviews. His experience was fantastic. Nice people, friendly, helpful, walked him thru everything. They emailed him an invoice, he paid it via his phone while the tech waited. My brother is quite happy with the service.

The tech drives a 2012 Prius for servicing. He basically covers all of New England, NY, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Delaware, Maryland and maybe the Carolinas. He is one of ten techs that cover the entire US. The tech packs his car with a bunch of batteries and makes service calls all day. The tech showed my bro his odometer, 625,000 miles and still on the original battery pack!!

The company name if anyone needs it is Greenbean Batteries. Looks like they will replace the batteries in a wide variety of car makes and models. Note that they use reconditioned batteries which I presume means they've rebuilt old battery packs with new cells. The tech said that replacing the batteries and clearing the codes is simple and an easy DIY. But Stephen only has this one car and couldn't afford the down time waiting for batteries.

As I mentioned in the opening post, My brother works for American Airlines and is an aircraft ground controller. He controls the aircraft movement while in the terminal area and passes them off to airport ground control at a designated point. With storms and massive travel these days, aircraft are always late and he often leaves work quite late. A couple nights ago, he got off at 430AM (he's usually off at 11PM), before public transportation started running. He decided to walk the two hour home. He says he's done it in the past and always find interesting neighborhoods to walk thru.

I hope this thread was instructive and interesting. I learned a lot. And all's well that ends well.
Miguel
Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:00 am

Addicted
2018 GTS300 & 2015 GTS300 Super [sold]
Joined: 26 Sep 2017
Posts: 728
Location: Connecticut, USA
 
Addicted
2018 GTS300 & 2015 GTS300 Super [sold]
Joined: 26 Sep 2017
Posts: 728
Location: Connecticut, USA
Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:00 am linkquote
Great thread. Thanks.
Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:01 pm

Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4928
Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4928
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:01 pm linkquote
I had almost the same experience as you, Miguel. My Prius is still going strong four years later. Do you mind me asking what the final bill was?
Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:47 pm

Hooked
LX150, GTS250
Joined: 06 Oct 2014
Posts: 378
Location: Banning, CA
 
Hooked
LX150, GTS250
Joined: 06 Oct 2014
Posts: 378
Location: Banning, CA
Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:47 pm linkquote
As a Prius owner of a 2016 I was interested in your topic.
After driving my 2007 175,000 miles, I gave it to my Cousin who's is still driving it. At 135,000 Toyota put a new battery in that 2007 under warranty. So she only had 40,000 on the battery when she received it.
Only thing that happened was someone stole the catalytic converter off it in her apartment complex. She's since moved and had the cat replaced with an aftermarket unit, something you can apparently do in AZ and not CA. (unsure on this)
Glad your brother had a good experience with that company.
Thank you for posting about it.
Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:54 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer, 2001 BMW R1100RT
Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 5435
Location: Santa Cruz California
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer, 2001 BMW R1100RT
Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 5435
Location: Santa Cruz California
Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:54 pm linkquote
Tierney wrote:
I had almost the same experience as you, Miguel. My Prius is still going strong four years later. Do you mind me asking what the final bill was?
Tierney, it wasn't me, it was my bro Stephen. as described in the opening post, he had 213K miles on his 2008 Prius. He paid them $1525 which includes a lifetime battery warranty.

Miguel
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:38 am

Addicted
Vespa S
Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 633
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
Addicted
Vespa S
Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 633
Location: Toronto, Canada
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:38 am linkquote
Bill Dog wrote:
I'd call the Warranty Dept.
VesperGeezer wrote:
But the fact that the general public breathed in a little less pollution than they otherwise would have done had he driven a 'gas guzzler' all that time is priceless.
That depends on how power is generated in whatever particular state he was plugging in...
Bill Dog wrote:
Save the planet and just buy a smaller car.
A new phone being launched will tax the planet far more than me and all of my descendants combined will... It's a nice notion, but our vehicle sizes are just a drop in the ocean of what comes out of China...




I missed the post but I saw someone say they were surprised about the brake pads and rotors. Welcome to regenerative braking. My Toyota Highlander Hybrid (v6) was the same thing.
Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:21 am

Enthusiast
Stella
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 72
Location: USA
 
Enthusiast
Stella
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 72
Location: USA
Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:21 am linkquote
Interesting information, thanks for the thread.

Always great to read about experience and knowledge rather than the habit of posting links to videos as evidence of opinion confirmation.
Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:35 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer, 2001 BMW R1100RT
Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 5435
Location: Santa Cruz California
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2009 GTV250 (Gone), 2003 Inder trailer, 2001 BMW R1100RT
Joined: 24 Jun 2009
Posts: 5435
Location: Santa Cruz California
Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:35 am linkquote
One final follow up... My brother has been driving the car for a week since getting the batteries replaced. He's not had any issues or problems. He's getting the same mileage he was before the battery replacement: 48 mpg. Not bad for a 14 yo car with 213k miles.

Out of curiosity, I looked up what it would cost to replace the batteries in our full-sized hybrid SUV since its 9 years old and Toyota says the batteries should last 10 years. It is $2995 to have Greenbeanbattery.com replace it for us. BTW, we get about 26/27 mpg.

Miguel
Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:59 pm

Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4928
Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4928
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:59 pm linkquote
The cool thing about all of this is the used battery pack is taken back to the shop, checked, run thru a recycling charge several times, checked again and then readied to be put back into service. Any lousy connections or upgrades are done and checked one more time. Of course this takes time, knowledge, and a few expensive machines. Upside is you get a reliable running car again and the battery (and car) stays out of the landfill.
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