Hooked
![]() 2005 Stellalossi 177 Fe
Joined: Sun, 14 Jun 2020 12:29:04 +0000
Posts: 415 Location: MA |
Wed, 22 Jun 2022 22:33:31 +0000
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The centerstand springs are covered in Polini's instructions. Just remove the clips from the crossmember and hook the springs directly into the holes where the clips used to go. Worked fine for me.
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Fri, 24 Jun 2022 14:40:25 +0000
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Hi Guys
Firstly thank you for all your input,veryy much appreciated. Finally solved the problem, it turned out to be a very slightly damaged thread at the tip of the bolt which engaged when dry fitting off the scoot but on the scoot with a fractional mismatch refused to thread. New bolt solved the problem. Next question Jet stack on my px is the standard 140/BE5/96 main. Ive changed the jet to a 106 ( 112 and 110 just flooded the engine) and seem to have it running ok to my ear (but I doo wear hearing aids so not sure how good that is) Is there any procedure/guide That is fool proof or does it come with experience? Cheers Andy ⚠️ Last edited by andyx on Fri, 24 Jun 2022 16:30:50 +0000; edited 1 time
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![]() Fri, 24 Jun 2022 16:28:15 +0000
Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 20:44:07 +0000
Posts: 3527 Location: Rochester, Minnesota |
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Ossessionato
![]() 2007 Stella 225
Joined: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 20:44:07 +0000
Posts: 3527 Location: Rochester, Minnesota |
Fri, 24 Jun 2022 16:28:15 +0000
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andyx wrote: Hi Guys Firstly thank you for all your input,veryy much appreciated. Finally solved the problem, it turned out to be a very slightly damaged thread at the tip of the bolt which engaged when dry fitting off the scoot but on the scoot with a fractional mismatch refused to thread. New bolt solved the problem. Next question Jet stack on my px is the standard 140/BE5/96 main. what woul be a good start point for the Main jet( I have a set which goes to 112) for the polini with a drilled filter. Cheers Andy |
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Fri, 24 Jun 2022 16:34:34 +0000
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Thanks Chris as you rightly surmise 112 was way too rich. I'm at 106 now and it seems to be running wellBut not keen on a lock up, any foolproof way to be sure I've got the right jetting or is it a case of feeling my way aroound to a degree.
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![]() Fri, 24 Jun 2022 16:49:11 +0000
Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 20:44:07 +0000
Posts: 3527 Location: Rochester, Minnesota |
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Ossessionato
![]() 2007 Stella 225
Joined: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 20:44:07 +0000
Posts: 3527 Location: Rochester, Minnesota |
Fri, 24 Jun 2022 16:49:11 +0000
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andyx wrote: Thanks Chris as you rightly surmise 112 was way too rich. I'm at 106 now and it seems to be running wellBut not keen on a lock up, any foolproof way to be sure I've got the right jetting or is it a case of feeling my way aroound to a degree. 1) CHT - cylinder head temperature - it does work especially for longer sustained runs, not as fast as EGT. Cylinder head mass has a larger mass and slower thermal change. That has left me with a seized cylinder previously. Gauge was still climbing past 350°F as cylinder locked up. I like it better for a stable or sustained reading. 2) EGT - exhaust gas temperature - quicker reaction then CHT as it's measuring exhaust gas and only has to change thermocouple mass in exhaust. 3) Wideband AFR - air fuel ratio - quicker then my EGT - it's a love hate relationship for some. I have been jetted so lean it just showed said lean and I stopped and turned it off immediately. Cylinder head and EGT hadn't had a chance to read anything. 4) Plug chops and cutting plugs open, can be a pain the rear but do work. |
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Fri, 24 Jun 2022 17:14:40 +0000
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Thanks Chris, got a cht probe, which I'll fit when I replace the rear shock (next job).
Just want to avoid a seize and chucking my 66 yearold body down the road ![]() |
![]() Fri, 24 Jun 2022 17:24:25 +0000
Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 20:44:07 +0000
Posts: 3527 Location: Rochester, Minnesota |
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Ossessionato
![]() 2007 Stella 225
Joined: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 20:44:07 +0000
Posts: 3527 Location: Rochester, Minnesota |
Fri, 24 Jun 2022 17:24:25 +0000
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andyx wrote: Thanks Chris, got a cht probe, which I'll fit when I replace the rear shock (next job). Just want to avoid a seize and chucking my 66 year old body down the road ![]() How did you arrive at 106? If you go up one jet size how does it run? I think you said your missing a 108? Ok I see you edited previous post, you went from a 110 to a 106. Theoretically you should be ok, temperature readings would be best, maybe try a 108 if you can get one, best you can do is run on rich side for safety. |
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Fri, 24 Jun 2022 17:37:48 +0000
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I've got a 108 so I'll try that over the weekend but what will tell me if a jet is too rich?
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![]() Fri, 24 Jun 2022 20:16:55 +0000
Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 20:44:07 +0000
Posts: 3527 Location: Rochester, Minnesota |
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Ossessionato
![]() 2007 Stella 225
Joined: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 20:44:07 +0000
Posts: 3527 Location: Rochester, Minnesota |
Fri, 24 Jun 2022 20:16:55 +0000
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andyx wrote: I've got a 108 so I'll try that over the weekend but what will tell me if a jet is too rich? |
Fri, 24 Jun 2022 20:44:15 +0000
Addicted
Joined: Thu, 28 May 2020 18:20:07 +0000
Posts: 903 Location: Planet Earth |
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Fri, 24 Jun 2022 20:44:15 +0000
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How on earth are you considering that jet size? That's way too high. A road 2.0 sip will be no more than 102 on your jet stack and that's with derestricted air filter too. The polini isn't as powerful top speed as a road 2.0, it's a good 5 mph slower and does not rev on like a road 2.,Without seeming to be arsey we are repeating the info you ask for when it's already been given . Anything like a 108 will rich bog like hell, your plug will be black and wet. It's a standard 125 we are talking here with a rather mediocre box pipe on a standard cylinder . 101 or 102 jet !!! You are going 12 pts over standard jet with a 108, even your polini instructions will state 4 pts over standard !
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Fri, 24 Jun 2022 22:37:39 +0000
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Hi ferriswolf, thank you for your input but the 106 isnt bogging (had to google that) with the polini and the drilled filter and I'm real new to this and want to avoid seizing the motor and me sliding down the road on my arse.
I'll try the 108 and if it bogs I will have an idea where I am. Until I get the cht fitted I will err on the side of rich. Will let you know where I end up |
Hooked
![]() 2005 Stellalossi 177 Fe
Joined: Sun, 14 Jun 2020 12:29:04 +0000
Posts: 415 Location: MA |
Sat, 25 Jun 2022 16:07:56 +0000
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I agree with ferriswolf. If your only mods are a Polini box and a drilled airfilter, your main jet should end up in the 100-102 range.
When you are dialing in a main jet, you are looking for splutter (better descriptor than "bog" in this context I think) at max rpm, i.e., wide open throttle in 3rd gear. It took me a while to learn the difference between a motor that was spluttering and a motor that was revving all the way out, and it is hard to put into words. Of course there is the actual splutter. Beyond that, the best way I can describe it is splutter will feel like the motor is hitting a wall, revving out will feel more like the motor has reached the end of its tether. |
Sat, 25 Jun 2022 16:27:26 +0000
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Sat, 25 Jun 2022 16:27:26 +0000
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Kowalski wrote: I agree with ferriswolf. If your only mods are a Polini box and a drilled airfilter, your main jet should end up in the 100-102 range. When you are dialing in a main jet, you are looking for splutter (better descriptor than "bog" in this context I think) at max rpm, i.e., wide open throttle in 3rd gear. It took me a while to learn the difference between a motor that was spluttering and a motor that was revving all the way out, and it is hard to put into words. Of course there is the actual splutter. Beyond that, the best way I can describe it is splutter will feel like the motor is hitting a wall, revving out will feel more like the motor has reached the end of its tether. |
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Sun, 26 Jun 2022 07:43:55 +0000
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Thanks guys for your advice and your patience, next step I think is to fit the cht as a back up while I learn to work out what the engine is telling me.
As before I will keep you updated with my progress on this learning curve. |
Sun, 26 Jun 2022 11:09:50 +0000
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Sun, 26 Jun 2022 11:09:50 +0000
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andyx wrote: Thanks guys for your advice and your patience, next step I think is to fit the cht as a back up while I learn to work out what the engine is telling me. As before I will keep you updated with my progress on this learning curve. When I had it standard other than a sip road 2.0 and a derestricted air filter it's jetting was 101 and perfect. It's as simple as replacing your main jet and sticking on your air filter. This is a five minute job. Then you whack your exhaust on, about a 45 minute job. You really don't need a temperature reader. Your scooter will do the same top speed as it did before however with the polini box it will be more eager and torquey in third and from third to forth where it will reach its maximum hp as it can't rev on . If you had a road 2.0 pipe , jet would be 101/102 depending on climate , season as it does have a better top end over standard . I've run both pipes matey preferring the road 2 . I now have a dr177 bolt on and this is where the experiments with jetting , air correctors and atomisers come into play and where a temperature meter could be useful however I have learned with help on this forum how to plug read across all running speeds and the folk on here gave me the likely base jetting info for my kit as they have either got that kit or used to. So yes learn at your own pace but accept the giveaway information to start you off with and keeps it simple and cost effective . |
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Sun, 26 Jun 2022 14:25:35 +0000
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ferriswolf wrote: You have px 125 2003 , I have px 125 2003, it will be an MY disc model . When I had it standard other than a sip road 2.0 and a derestricted air filter it's jetting was 101 and perfect. It's as simple as replacing your main jet and sticking on your air filter. This is a five minute job. Then you whack your exhaust on, about a 45 minute job. You really don't need a temperature reader. Your scooter will do the same top speed as it did before however with the polini box it will be more eager and torquey in third and from third to forth where it will reach its maximum hp as it can't rev on . If you had a road 2.0 pipe , jet would be 101/102 depending on climate , season as it does have a better top end over standard . I've run both pipes matey preferring the road 2 . I now have a dr177 bolt on and this is where the experiments with jetting , air correctors and atomisers come into play and where a temperature meter could be useful however I have learned with help on this forum how to plug read across all running speeds and the folk on here gave me the likely base jetting info for my kit as they have either got that kit or used to. So yes learn at your own pace but accept the giveaway information to start you off with and keeps it simple and cost effective . It seems to me from all the reading I have done on this forum that developing a 'feel' for the engine is invaluable and thats what I'm trying to to in my cackhanded way. Please dont take offense if I seem to be a little slow following your advice I am just tring to do it in a measured way that makes sense to me. Please stick with me as I know your advice/help it the future will help me when I fit a kit, which will be neccessary if I am ever to make the sidecar outfit viable. I see we live in the same county, maybe we could meet up for a chinwag( coffee's are on me) |
Sun, 26 Jun 2022 14:54:32 +0000
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Joined: Thu, 28 May 2020 18:20:07 +0000
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Sun, 26 Jun 2022 14:54:32 +0000
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You fancy one of these ?
https://beedspeed.com/products/vespa-cozy-side-car-zeppelin-black |
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Sun, 26 Jun 2022 16:03:42 +0000
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Nice, but they also do a 'rocket' shaped one which I'm tending to favour.
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Sun, 26 Jun 2022 19:20:32 +0000
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A question that has just occurred, My engine was rebuilt 600miles ago(rebored cylinder etc.)
Should I still be running it in and if so whats the best way? |
Addicted
![]() Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, VR-One 228 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
Joined: Thu, 23 Jun 2022 06:30:20 +0000
Posts: 536 Location: Finland |
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Sun, 26 Jun 2022 21:13:33 +0000
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FINYoshi wrote: 600 miles is plenty for running in. |
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Tue, 28 Jun 2022 12:21:31 +0000
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Ferriswolf
Think I have found an issue which is possibly affecting the jetting? Removed the carb and found the gasket was mis fitted, cutting off 20% of the intake. Any thoughts as to how it would affect the fueling? |
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Thu, 07 Jul 2022 09:44:14 +0000
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Hi All back after work interupted my progress/ experiments/learning curve.
Anyway I have fitted a Runleader Temperature gauge and worke my way down to a 102 jet. I was a bit apprehensive as the 106 jet gave me temperatures of 320 f. Anyway just been out for a run and would appreciate your thoughts on the following. With the 102 jet i have max temps of 245 the bike will max out rev wise at 7500 in second and 7300 in third( although given a longer run I think I'd eventually get to 7500, just run out of road). To my ear the engine ( bearing in mind my hearing is impaired) sounds good, picks up well, returns to tickover straight away and with the polini the torque is much improved. I think Im at the sweet spot as Ferriswolf correctly surmised, bearing in mind I'm after a reliable runner. One other question, what should the tickover be? set at 1200 the scoot occasionally cuts out, at 1500 its fine(have I answered my own question?). |
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Thu, 07 Jul 2022 10:17:23 +0000
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andyx wrote: One other question, what should the tickover be? set at 1200 the scoot occasionally cuts out, at 1500 its fine(have I answered my own question?). Stock flywheel is around 900rpm, Lightened aftermarket (around 1600grams) should be 1100-1200rpm 1500rpm will be too high… you'll be crunching the cruciform to get into gear from idle. It'll take an unwanted beating. You want to aim low… Usually if it won't idle properly at the right rpm, it's the fuel/air mix screw + pilot jet + idle screw not set properly |
Thu, 07 Jul 2022 10:31:37 +0000
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Thu, 07 Jul 2022 10:31:37 +0000
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108 wrote: Depends on your flywheel setup… Stock flywheel is around 900rpm, Lightened aftermarket (around 1600grams) should be 1100-1200rpm 1500rpm will be too high… you'll be crunching the cruciform to get into gear from idle. It'll take an unwanted beating. You want to aim low… Usually if it won't idle properly at the right rpm, it's the fuel/air mix screw + pilot jet + idle screw not set properly |
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Thu, 07 Jul 2022 10:35:06 +0000
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108 wrote: Depends on your flywheel setup… Stock flywheel is around 900rpm, Lightened aftermarket (around 1600grams) should be 1100-1200rpm 1500rpm will be too high… you'll be crunching the cruciform to get into gear from idle. It'll take an unwanted beating. You want to aim low… Usually if it won't idle properly at the right rpm, it's the fuel/air mix screw + pilot jet + idle screw not set properly Another step on my learning curve. |
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Thu, 07 Jul 2022 10:49:27 +0000
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No worries!
I asked the guys here too, asked others, researched else where, used my own experience of trying numerous hours of dialling in and using several rpm devices. Lol But it has worked out well on those numbers. From experience, your mix screw (if untouched…) will be set for stock setup, if you've added a kit, most likely you'll have to set it leaner or richer to get the optimum running at idle to match your idle jet. The only chance you wouldn't need to do that is if the bore, stroke and ignition timing is unchanged. |
Thu, 07 Jul 2022 12:20:06 +0000
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Thu, 07 Jul 2022 17:07:23 +0000
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ferriswolf wrote: |
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Sat, 09 Jul 2022 08:11:32 +0000
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Thanks for that link Ferris wolf, About a quarter turn has sorted the problem, But what a pain in the a..e to adjust. Its a shame the designers dont have to work on there own designs.
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Sat, 09 Jul 2022 08:48:22 +0000
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Joined: Thu, 28 May 2020 18:20:07 +0000
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Sat, 09 Jul 2022 08:48:22 +0000
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andyx wrote: Thanks for that link Ferris wolf, About a quarter turn has sorted the problem, But what a pain in the a..e to adjust. Its a shame the designers dont have to work on there own designs. |
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Sat, 09 Jul 2022 11:09:36 +0000
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ferriswolf wrote: Yes, dreadful . It's the starter motor . Best off without them and just use the kicker . Remember what fuel you have in it now as the e5 and e10 change that tick over characteristic. You might find that waiting at traffic lights your engine will stop as ticker over too low. Can't remember which way but one will make tick over lower, I stick to e5 where I can get it. Must say that the polini exhaust has transformed the bike, much more rideable, rev limit is about 7500 with it, but thats fine for me and it becoming a sidcar outfit. |
Sat, 09 Jul 2022 11:27:03 +0000
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Sat, 09 Jul 2022 11:27:03 +0000
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andyx wrote: Not sure whats in it at the moment ( I bought it with a full tank) but intend to run it on e5, dont trust that e10 stuff ,it affects my cars. Must say that the polini exhaust has transformed the bike, much more rideable, rev limit is about 7500 with it, but thats fine for me and it becoming a sidcar outfit. |
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Sat, 09 Jul 2022 11:53:55 +0000
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ferriswolf wrote: Yes they are great for around town , the punch in third gear is good and the change from third to fourth retains speed and doesn't drop the revs down so much. They sound the nearest to original . The road 2 will go faster top end but are noisy , after a couple of years they get loud. You made wise choice for your intentions. One thing I'd say to use as your scoot is same age as mine, if the fuel line not been changed please change it. It will be very brittle and will rupture on to your exhaust . Can guide you on that how to fit as there is a certain art to it. You're right about putting the fuel pipe back it is a bit of a faf to say the least but another skill learned. Nest stage is to tune the 125 cylinder to see what I can get out of it. ( more as a learning thing ) then decide what cylinder kit would be best for pulling a sidecar. Going to follow this guide. https://www.scootering.com/scootering-classics-vespa-tuning-upgrade-mega-feature-part-3/ Must admit I'd forgotten what fun vespas are, to ride and work on. |
Sat, 09 Jul 2022 12:10:18 +0000
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Sat, 09 Jul 2022 12:10:18 +0000
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Have you thought about just sticking a 150 barrel on it? If you're not looking to go kits , imo the 150 was the best capacity ever made for the px. Better fuel consumption, a little bit more power, not much difference in top end that can't simply be done with an exhaust change but a bit more torque. I've had a couple of 150 px over the years and they were good all round. Theres the LML 150 barrel piston and head kits still appearing online and they have the couple of boost ports in too. Used in the late LML star models in the uk. Called a stella in the USA I think .
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Sat, 09 Jul 2022 19:42:36 +0000
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ferriswolf wrote: Have you thought about just sticking a 150 barrel on it? If you're not looking to go kits , imo the 150 was the best capacity ever made for the px. Better fuel consumption, a little bit more power, not much difference in top end that can't simply be done with an exhaust change but a bit more torque. I've had a couple of 150 px over the years and they were good all round. Theres the LML 150 barrel piston and head kits still appearing online and they have the couple of boost ports in too. Used in the late LML star models in the uk. Called a stella in the USA I think . Im not aftera rocket ship but on the other hand dont want to be overtaken by mobility scooters either ![]() The tuning of the 125 barrel is just to get my hand in ,so to speak, its not intended to pull the sidecar, more to get a feel for mucking about with tuning a 2 stroke. When i do kit it I want to have half an idea about whats going on and especialy the jetting side of things as that sems to be the key to a reliable engine. |
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Tue, 12 Jul 2022 20:43:11 +0000
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Ok in the spirit of learning something( and I am an inveterate fiddler) and having a day off, I whipped the head off and sanded 1.5mm off it, Then I raised the cylinder .8mm( its all I had)
Bolted it all up and went for a ride. Result? A definite improvement in driveability, not a massive change but it is easier to ride. Worth all that sanding! |
bodgemaster
![]() 63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:01:08 +0000
Posts: 6985 Location: So Cal |
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Tue, 12 Jul 2022 21:13:53 +0000
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Learnt some things along the way, e.g rings were fiddly to get back in the barrel, couple of nylon zip ties( cable ties) and it was a doddle.
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