Modern Vespa

I have finally managed to get the damaged flywheel off and looked at the stator on my VBC 150 8" wheel model: the wires/terminals and coils have seem better days but the points and base plate are ok. The wiring loom is disintegrating too, with that to replace, as well as the flywheel, stator, connection block, brake switch and possibly also the handlebar switch, so it is time to work out a strategy.

I have looed at numerous threads but am still none the wiser. Does the choice boil down to fairly expensive 12v electronic ignition Italian kit (£400) vs cheaper points 12v kit (£100) or cheaper 6v like for like replacement? Or is there any other sensible alternative (I do not fancy winding my own coils or remagnetizing the magneto etc etc - I will have enough on my plate with the loom replacement)

Can any one recommend a reasonably priced comprehensively stator/rotor/fan kit and loom within UK, please? The SIP items are beyond my budget, bike will have light infrequent use but i do want it to start on those times!

Cheers
R

You can do a lot of the repairs on the cheap but may require more work. A 12v conversion is not required but if your do it don't get the cheap one as sip vape is the one of choice.

I'm sure the stator can be repaired by sending out to somewhere in the UK. Sip is ok but the UK has better local options then most places. Someone may add to this thread and provide a place there to repair the stator and wires on the stator. The place that repairs the stator may sell flywheels and switches. Actually a new quality vbb stator maybe better/ cheaper if you need coils replaced.

The wiring loom is usually only bad where the wires are connected to components. The wiring in the sheath can still be good if rodents or a lot of water didn't deteriorated it. That being said, patching up the ends with new wires may suffice. A lot of tedious work but cheaper then an entire loom.

A new wiring harness is only 40 GBP. The ignition will be trickier, but I'm with rowdy. Look around for local sources, and also possible used parts.

thanks Rowdy and chandlerman

since Brexit things have become more complex buying from abroad so I'd prefer the items to be in the UK already. Having had to deal with mismatching items too in the past, the goal is to buy a ready to run kit with all components for the ignition. Sadly the SIP Vape is beyond my budget.

The sccoot has got to the point that even my lawn mower reached today: too many repairs to the poor loom already - neither now work. If I repaired the stator, it would only be as a spare, not to fit to this scoot straight away.

So, I am looking for a new loom, and a new full ignition kit at reasonable price- has any one fitted one recently from a UK supplier that they were happy with? Also, any to stay away from?

I'm in the US, so I cannot recommend a UK supplier. I went with a Vape 12v AC static kit for my 62 Allstate (VNB2). I'm using the original 6v harness.

It was fairly painless to set up and get running. And lights haven't been an issue since I've installed it. Here is a link to the kit that I bought. Maybe you can source one over there, and it wouldn't cost an arm and a leg? I know, that's a BIG maybe.

https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Electronic-Ignition-Kits/510061RA_2

Have you done a Google search for classic vespa uk parts suppliers? Start there. May want to add your location in your profile or indicate somewhere what part of the uk you're from. It would help if someone in the uk chime in this thread with supplier recommendations. There are many UK suppliers that order from sip or scooter center directly which save their costumers brexit fees and also offer customer service for those parts.

There is no cheap 12v conversion. May save a few bucks by going pinasco flytech but not much. https://www.buzzsolomoto.co.uk/scooters-parts.php/view/electronic-flytech-pinasco-vbb-vlb/id/008013. Stay away from cheap 12v conversions. I don't think anyone makes them for a vbc anymore. Bajaj 12v conv was crap and Atomic was just ok but neither are made now.

I'm not aware of a points kit not saying there's isn't one out there. Usually someone buys the stator, flywheel, and coil separate. The 12v conversions comes as a kit because those items need to work together and different brands normally don't function together. Points systems use 80 year old technology so there not really branded. Just mostly Piaggio or italy, or german higher quality items or Indians/Chinese lower quality tems. Stay away from eBay stuff until you can weed out the cheap crappy stuff... hint, most of it is crap. Stay away from the supplier Beedspeed but I read they are gone now or on life support and leaving soon.

So look forward to buying the replacement parts separate if going the cheap route. You can wait on someone to provide a uk supplier or just start searching yourself. If you really want to be lazy, post your question here https://vespa.proboards.com/ . Make sure you introduce yourself and your scooter in the required section of forum before posting questions. Those chaps over there are not as nice as us Yankees and when you post a question without an introduction it gets no answers... sometimes.

To reiterate a few of rowdy's point...
1) Put a better location in your profile
2) Update the title of the thread (edit your first post's topic) specifying that you're looking for a UK parts option.
3) Avoid the Bajaj and ebay stuff
4) Avoid the Flytech. It's not good and the CDI's are stupid-expensive compared to a Ducati
5) I thought I read that Beedspeed was under new ownership and they were turning it around.

Beedspeed are still patchy. If the parts are in stock you are Ok but their website does not keep up with what is or isn't available that well. It took about 3 weeks to get an order completed with them recently and their phone service was very patchy. ve uk seems to be more reliable.

Thanks to all so far; however some points:

1 yes, naturally, I have indeed done a google search! the results are contradictory, inconclusive or out of date. the best video on you tube includes a link to the product......which is broken.
2 Beedspeed came out among the first few results on the search. I have bought from them ages ago and cannot recall the customer service, good or bad!! I think, they messed up and order but eventually sorted it out. Bought from Buzzsolo too; service did not stand out there either.
3 the links to Vape etc are appreciated BUT are too expensive for my budget, sadly. Thanks for the warning re Flytech
4 the post clearly says "in the UK"! No point updating the profile because it will not tell anyone what the bike in question that time is: the thread does tell you though. UK is small enough for exact location not to matter for postage costs within it. You are right, that other site is less friendly!
5 I understand the comments re ebay etc, but apart from the expensive scooter mercato or SIP offerings, that is all that seems left.
6 yes, I can ring round the ever decreasing number of advertisers in Scootering but I need to know what I am after before I call really.
7 I rarely if ever see VBC mentioned in the kit applications: can I assume that a VBB kit will fit?
8 from previous experience with car/bike parts, buying a bit here there and everywhere leads to fitment, interchange and operation issues. I can do without that but am in the situation where I need a loom (no, I do not wish to make my own having done enough car re-wiring recently) and a flywheel, stator, and ancillaries. I want these to work together minimising experimentation, you see.
9 the calls/emails I have sent to suppliers have not yielded info as to whether the stuff is Italian/german or "other" which means I bet the stuff is "other". However is the Italian/German stuff made there or again "elsewhere"?
cheers
RDS

Last edited by RDS on Wed Jun 22, 2022 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

ps 10 I do not see the option to amend the title to the thread.

thanks again.
RDS

Just edit the first post of the thread and you'll see the topic textbox. Edit that and you're good-to-go.

Regarding the new harness, you're most likely going to wind up having to do some fiddling to get it matched up whatever ignition you wind up with. None of this stuff is every really a straight swap, sometimes not even when you're swapping for the same re-pop part you're replacing.

A VBB flywheel should work on your bike. They both have the same small taper cone. It will not work with a P-series flywheel unless you replace the crank with a large taper version, which is totally out-of-bounds here and doesn't really get you anything but wider selection of fancy ignitions you're already not looking at.

And a lot of the "German" stuff is made (or at least assembled) in Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia. In general, the quality of it is pretty good, though.

The option to edit the first post is not visible but not to worry.

Harness, i contacted a supplier yesterday who makes up looms with generous lengths and 1mm2 cross section. Should be ok, I think for the loads.

The taper is the issue it seems: I was told that if I had a certain taper (anyone know the dimensions?) I would be lucky and be able to use an LML or PX stator and flywheel. However I doubt I am that lucky - off to measure the large and small diameters of the taper this afternoon.....I hope.

A BGM kit was mentioned by one supplier.

Depending on device you are using to post sometimes you have to rotate to landscape mode. Then you have more options visible.

OK ta; will try it on phone.

If you want to do it on the ultra cheap, another way for 12V:

Converting a 6V stator to 12V

Many thanks, that might be a resort!

I took a few measurements yesterday; the diameter at the wider end of the crank is 20mm and at the thinner end 14mm.

Length from crank seal to beginning of threads 38.7mm

Stator diameter is 115mm

The inner diameter of flywheel housing is 155mm approx

the diameter of the circle of magnets is 105mm

Does all of the foregoing indicate that the assembly is a small crank?

If so, I suppose there is no possibility of putting a machined sleeve over the small taper to transform it to a wide taper and then use the PX style set-up, due to different diameter flywheels etc?

Now that you mention it...that is an option.

well well well, it was not such a daft question as I initially thought then!! cheers chandlerman.

Ok so, with that cone converter, what else can I use from the PX? ie what goes on the shopping list for the set up?

BTW is now the time to change the visible seal?

All that cone gets you is the ability to run large cone (i.e. P-series) ignitions, so you're still looking at needing the whole setup: flywheel, stator, CDI, regulator, new foot brake switch (change from normally-closed to normally-open), new horn, new bulbs, and ideally new harness, which I know you said earlier you didn't really want to take on.

And you still have to get it all working. Swapping from the 6V "balanced" to 12V requires modification of the wiring harness because when they said "balanced" what they really meant was "short things to ground instead of turning them off," which is why the entire system explodes when you burn out a single bulb.

I've done the conversion. It can be kind've a pain, or it was for me the first time as I was kind've guessing my way through it, but it's definitely do-able and not a ton of work once you know what's involved.

hello again; I was very much interested to hear that you have gone through this; I don't suppose you feel like putting together a guide that can be used perhaps as a "sticky" or reference?

I am already accepting the fact that i need a new loom and my brake switch has had it too; i need a stator and flywheel also anyway. I think the original electrical system is clever, perhaps too clever and would be pleased to change to a (non-battery if possible) 12v system. Therefore I am seeing what are the relative costs in money and time between:

1 staying 6v (still need loom etc), IF i can get RELIABLE new or second hand parts in GOOD condition
2 buying one of the small crank kits eg BGM to go 12v (still need loom etc) despite the warnings above (no comments so far on BGM, i notice....)
3 buying this cone and a PX stator and flywheel (still need loom etc) - this is appealing due to the modernity of the system and because I have a PX200e to commonise parts

Did you have to machine the cone or the flywheel to fit each other?

Was the timing hard to set due to the free-play in the woodruff keys/slots?

Did you need to convert to 12v DC too?

Lemme see what I can put together. My time is pretty limited this weekend, but if you don't mind waiting a few days, I'll write something up first part of next week.

Yes thank you that will be fine: you are right time is ALWAYS limited!! You will benefit the wider community too.

I haven't read good things about that sleeve. Your luck maybe better but getting that sleeve to stay in place maybe a chore. Others that have tried it did not have good luck with it. Probably more expensive and more time fiddling with it then leaving the points system in it.

Staying with points is less expensive, 12v conversion with old crank more expensive, or 12v conversion with p style crank even more expensive.

Bgm kit is the best cheap 12v conversion option. It's a reliable Ducati igntion made for the smaller cranks. Bgm wiring harness makes its easy but cost a lil more then 6v harness.

Btw, the theory of mismatching components don't necessarily apply to these old points system. That's why it's hard to find a points kit and mostly get everything separate. Since vbb, sprints, and vbc types are the most sold old vespa with points, the systems are plentiful, cheap, and when set up right reliable.

I will be interested to see what chandlerman has to say in his write up.

My engineer friend says "As to the Vespa adaptor - I can machine it for you, but I would need the crank here in my workshop to match the taper properly. It's an iterative process using engineer's blue and constant trial fittings. I can't see the point, however, of such an adapter being sold that needs re-machining - I would expect it to be correct in the first place. Also, the thing would be all but impossible to hold if it is already tapered inside and out. These things are usually machined all over before parting off from the bar stock.
The review does, however, imply that the quality and accuracy leave much to be desired. The excess clearance at the woodruff key should not be a problem in itself as packing made of shim stock could be used to centralise the alignment before bolting up tight. Once bolted up no further movement can take place."
It won't be practicable to take the crank out or to take the scooter to him so I am still wondering.
At the car/bike show yesterday I spoke to a few scooterists: opinion was vociferously divided as to whether to go for (in ascending order of cost and reliability):
Second hand 6v
Indian electronic 12v bolt on electronic kit
Cone adapter and 12v PX electronic kit
Italian/German 12v bolt on electronic kit

There were patchy in the lock down and i was livid with them getting a big bore kit and parts in, but i tried them again having had some positive info about them sharpening their act and ive had really good service with them since and waited no longer than 2 day for delivery. Ive ordered some pretty unique stuff too, genuine motovespa PKXL stator and flywheel which are hard to find and this was with me in two days. Ive ordered about five times since that and once again, 2 days later priority mail delivery arrived at my house.

As to stator plate rewiring, there are these guys. http://www.westcountrywindings.co.uk/applications.php
or their facebook page
https://www.facebook.com/Westcountry-Windings-470251760171512/
The reviews, although only 19 indicate people are happy with their services.


One of my local garages send them off too, they offered to do mine but i decided to just get a brand new stator as i managed to find one. if i hadnt then it would have gone off for refurbishment.

Stick with points.

New 6v stator

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/stator-plate-bajaj_15077600?q=Stator%20vbc

New harness

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/wiring-loom-sip_86135264?q=Harness%20vbc

Boom done.

I reserve further comments until I see pics of scooter, stator,
wiring, and the lot. Maybe a bodge and if so all bets are off. Also being a newbie, the assement of the situation may not be as bad/good as it is.

good find! I will bear in mind thank you. I still have to get a flywheel though.

The existing stator coils, flywheel and loom are shot, I assure you Rowdy. The crank is not 100% smooth either.

Cheers Socal. I am putting a cost spreadsheet together and will input that along with the Flywheel which is about £115 plus the other items. Not sure what the Stator means by "Grade C" though. the full kit here is grade AA
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/ignition-sip-performance-by-vape-road_51007RA0?q=flywheel%20vbc

Hey RDS - can I see some pictures?

sorry chum, I do not have any! Scooter is too far away so I only get to work on it sporadically.