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Johnny Two Tone
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whodatschrome wrote:
Thanks for looking out John. I saw the ad last night. The only bummer is I bought the NSU for $20. So absolutely anything I end up buying for it (new or used) will cost at least double my initial purchase price!
Now that you put it that way…. ROFL emoticon
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Then I'll suggest you fit a motor from a chainsaw. The bigger the better

Cheap, small, has a centrifugal clutch and power can be improved with a custom exhaust that you clearly have plenty of space for. "Just" fab a custom fork with engine mounts and salvage a wheel + hub from somewhere and drive with a chain.
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parallelogramerist
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sdjohn wrote:
I don't want to mess with a fuel injected engine swap...whatsoever...unless it's been well documented.
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whodatschrome wrote:
....was thinking that a LX150 engine might fit. I was more interested in swapping in a GT200 engine, but my friend was pretty confident that it would be too wide.
ET/LX motor? you rang?

Kajiit can assist...

GT motor is longer, and you have all the plumbing to deal with. but it's not insurmountable. I don't thing it's much wider, and if it is a little fatter it's not by much. the hang up on the GT motor is parts. besides consumables, if anything goes round and brown it's either difficult to track down or expensive.

but then, if you're that far in and doing that much work at GTS motor becomes mighty tempting...

anyway, let me know if you need some measurements!
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greasy125 wrote:
ET/LX motor? you rang?

Kajiit can assist...

GT motor is longer, and you have all the plumbing to deal with. but it's not insurmountable. I don't thing it's much wider, and if it is a little fatter it's not by much. the hang up on the GT motor is parts. besides consumables, if anything goes round and brown it's either difficult to track down or expensive.

but then, if you're that far in and doing that much work at GTS motor becomes mighty tempting...

anyway, let me know if you need some measurements!
To be honest, a 4T TnG engine really doesn't resonate a passion inside of me. I would much rather be shifting gears and belching 2T oil. That being said, having a manual transmission 4T engine would be very easy for me to live with. I'm not really a fan of mixing 2T oil. I like to pull up to a gas station and full up and go.

I suppose a 4T moto engine would need to be water cooled if it were to be hidden behind a pair of side panels? I suppose a swingarm off a kids dirtbike (XR 50?) could easily enough be modified to fit a modified NSU frame?

And how fast of a cruising speed and how much torque does the ET/LX 150 have? I'd be after something that pretty much matches a stock P200. Maybe a Malossi 190 kit will bring up the HP and torque?

Another option is to find a water cooled 2T dirtbike/quad engine that has auto mix oil injection?
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Well, the Clampits wee million airs/ and their truck was built by George Barris ('21 Olds) so seems appropriate you've wrangled a Cummins for it.
I'm a big fan of those motors - having driven xcountry and back, twice, during COVID - and dragged a few tons of machinery around California to boot.

I still wanna c ur three wheeler P get it's day I'm the sun, with some kinda independent a arm front suspension, still.

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I want to say that a stock ET/LX motor has 12hp

adding a 190 kicks it up a notch and there's an up-gear available as well. a stocker will cruise at 55~60 all day long and a 190 will see 65~70 add in an up-gear and 70+

the benefit is that it's a small all inclusive package, and it mounts from the top. install would be super straight forward.

I think a 2T dirt bike engine would be awesome though... or even a reasonably sized 4T thumper just for the sake of shifting gears.
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Johnny Two Tone
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2t dirt bike sounds appropriate
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Is an old Yamaha aircooled 250 & bigger 2 stroke or similar too wide?

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Who has something like this DT360 motor laying around?
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Maybe something from Suzuki TS series had a 185 dual sport for years. Shifty and two stroke,

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_TS_series
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Go big or go home.
Quote:
Yamaha SC500 – The Original Japanese Motocross Widowmaker


The Yamaha SC500 was a motocross bike that quickly became world famous for its exceptionally challenging handling. Talented riders could barely tame it, but most others were left either flying off the back or popping accidental power-wheelies every time they crashed into the razor thin power band.
https://silodrome.com/yamaha-sc500/

I am Yamaha biased, had one of these awesomely awful bikes back in the day. Terribly impressive & impressively terrible, but a fantastic hill climber. I guess I'm lucky to still be alive. Headache emoticon

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"YAMAHA SC500 SCRAMBLER. Another four-speed brute, this 1973-'74 two-stroke single ran hot, detonated fiercely, stalled constantly and seized regularly. After testing the bike, I noted: "It's gray and black; so is a turkey." Brutally fast, the SC-500 was cursed with state-of-the-dark forks and a pair of chromed shocks that would have faded on a busy barroom door."

"It shook its steering head like a dog coming out of a swimming pool and the rear end hopped around like the frame had a hinge in the middle. All things considered, the only thing this bike did right was not leak around the gas cap." – Rick "Super Hunky" Siemens of Dirt Bike Magazine"
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All true except we never seized.
Quote:
...in 1973 the SC500 was Yamaha's first swing at building an "Open Class" motocross racing bike. The engine is a single-cylinder two-stroke with a capacity of 496cc and a compression ratio of 7:1, and it's capable of 44 bhp at 6500 rpm.

As with many two-strokes, particularly those from the 1970s, the power band was explosive. Coupled to a kerb weight of just 107 kilograms (235 lbs) the hair-trigger-on-off switch throttle resulted in a motorcycle that was a handful to ride...
That thing was too much fun, light enough to throw around and my first taste of too much power. A great bike for the young and foolish I'd say.

And we need to know just how fast CAN an old NSU fly?
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I disassembled the fork today in order to go through it all. I cleaned and greased the fork bearings. I also disassembled the fork linkage. The only issue now is, where in the heck do I find replacement NSU parts? There seems to be some sort of missing bushings in the fork and shock linkage. I got zero hits with my google searching.
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As you can see my handlebars looks similar to an albatross in flight with a broken wing. I contacted the guy on scoot.net who had a box of NSU Prima bits about his spare handlebar, but he sold that already. I saw another set of bars on eBay, but in the meantime I might try to straighten mine out. It's made of stamped sheetmetal, so in theory, it should be able to be done. I don't want to spend very much money on this scooter until I for sure can get it up and running.
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whodatschrome wrote:
I disassembled the fork today in order to go through it all. I cleaned and greased the fork bearings. I also disassembled the fork linkage. The only issue now is, where in the heck do I find replacement NSU parts? There seems to be some sort of missing bushings in the fork and shock linkage. I got zero hits with my google searching.
Tom and Anna Giordano would be my best guess. I think they're on face book as Tom and Anna's Vintage Vespa and Oddscoot Parts.

if they don't have it, I'm sure they can point you in the right direction.

hth!
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I'm betting a Lambretta engine could be made to fit without too much cutting of the panels (and FYI, that bump stop hole in the Lammy engine is center of the wheel). The only problem is that I don't have a spare case AND building even a stock Lambretta engine is REALLY expensive (compared to a Vespa P series). Other than that, a stock Lambretta 200 would tick all my boxes for my horsepower desires. I'd still rather have a different engine than a Lammy...unless I find a good deal on a Lammy 200 or 150 (that I can kit).

And don't judge my welding shoes. Somewhere I have a a few socks that look very similar.
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Welding shoes - or did the barn mice go after them? Razz emoticon

You KNOW I couldn't resist....
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qascooter wrote:
Welding shoes - or did the barn mice go after them? Razz emoticon
Flippin barn mice. I hate them all. One of my joys is attaching the flail mower to the tractor and mowing our field. The dogs follow right along with the tractor, waiting to pick up and eat the mice that are trying to escape the mower's roller knives of doom.

My foot is still swollen up from my surgery 4.5 months ago, so I can only fit my foot in only a few pairs of shoes that I have. One shoe is beyond ratty, and my other shoe is still very nice so I can't wear it out in the shop. The worst part is that I have a medium sized collection of Nike Jordans and I can't fit my right foot into any of them.
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Seeing what Egig is doing with the spigotless barrels, could you graft a larger top end onto the original engine? Go for un-tuned larger displacement to give you the higher top speed etc.
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Liquid cooled cycle barrel on a Lammy engine
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No doubt it's fun to imagine what sort of high zoot engine could be swapped in...350 Banshee, CR500, KX500, BRC 500 KTM conversion case and cylinder. But in my reality, I just want something more plug and play. We're talking about a guy who could go his whole rest of his life consummating with a vanilla stock P200 engine. I don't want to mess with figuring out different cylinders, crankshafts, connecting rods, or pistons. I want to be able to easily find off the shelf replacement parts when the time comes.
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That looks perfect. The only wide part is the engine mounts, but those could be swapped out.

Does the tire line up?
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hjo wrote:
That looks perfect. The only wide part is the engine mounts, but those could be swapped out.

Does the tire line up?
The existing Lambretta engine mounts are wide, but they might just fit between the NSU side panels (just like a Lammy, the NSU side panels are wider at the bottoms). The tire should easily line up dead center of the frame. I have no idea how well a Lammy engine will fit fore and aft though. I'd have to just mock up a Lammy case to see if there's going to be room between the top of the cylinder head and the lower frame loop. The NSU engine is pretty darn long, so there stands a chance that there could be enough room to fit a Lammy engine. And being that the NSU is a tube frame, it would be super simple (compared to a Vespa) to weld some fabricated engine and rear shock brackets to the frame.

I did swing by my friend's scooter shop today to discuss swapping in a Lambretta 200 engine. He was onboard with the idea. I'm in absolutely no rush to start on an engine swap though. I need to finish up 4 other Vespa and 4 KTM dirtbike projects before I crack into another 2 wheels!
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I did a little bit of straightening of the handlebars. One side was bent down and back, while the other side was up and forward. It was fairly easy since they're made from stamped steel. I doubt that the bars are close to 100% straight, but was difficult to guesstimate what "straight" actually is since the legshield is wrinklier than the skin on an 80 year old baby boomer living in Florida.
Before
Before
After
After
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parallelogramerist
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I did a little bit of straightening of the bend seat today. I didn't even attempt to try to bang on it until I drilled out all the rivets and disassembled it. After a bunch of pounding I plug welded the holes back up. The seat frame isn't close to perfect, but it's straight enough to sit perpendicular with the semi-straight handlebars. There one missing long spring. Maybe I can find one at a hardware store? I have no idea if seat covers are made for this scooter. Possibly a Lambretta seat cover could be used as an impromptu cover? I'm in no rush to find or buy one though.


I also did some measuring of a Lambretta engine case today. The result is that a Lammy engine will be WAY too long to fit in the NSU. The NSU's engine is about 16"~17" long from the very front of the engine, back to the centerline of the rear wheel. The Lammy's engine is closer to at least 22". So back to the drawing board for engines...
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Molto Verboso
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That looks great!

I saw handlebars for sale.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265306319245
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hjo wrote:
That looks great!

I saw handlebars for sale.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265306319245
Thanks for looking out for parts hjo! I'm going to play it safe (monetarily wise) this time and make sure I can get some sort of engine installed AND running before I sink any money into replacement body or suspension parts.
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I was looking to see if anyone made seat covers, and that popped up. There are a lot of misc Prima parts on ebay!
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Seatcover?

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

Nice job bringing that seat frame back. On my first Vespa, a smallie with a seat condition like above, I used a layer of foam and a cut off old pants leg sewed up at one end and a draw string at the back for quite a while until I could do better.

As far as a motor, is there any way you could fit a SMALLFRAME motor in there with a little panel cheating, maybe frame notching? I don't think more power here than a kitted 133 is the most prudent notion anyway given your dare devil ways!
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chandlerman wrote:
I saw that picture and recoiled a little. I HATE wasps.
Oh, the irony...
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Chatis wrote:
Oh, the irony...
ROFL emoticon Clap emoticon Wha? emoticon
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greasy125 wrote:
get me some turbo juice, fill the mig bottle and bring me some fresh sawzall blades. that thing is begging for a modern engine of some type. like a little shifty 80~125 dirt bike 2T or a GY6 or something...

pound to fit, paint to match. ride it ugly.
Greasy, another one of my friends mentioned using a GY6 engine. Though I'm not fond of the idea of using a 4T T&G engine, I think I'm really limited with my options. A Lammy engine will be at least 5" too long...unless I do some fairly intricate frame and bodywork. I have zero knowledge of the GY6 engines, except that I know it's a really popular engine to swap into the Ruckus and other auto scooters. I researched the GY6 some today, and it looks like there's both a short and long case engine. Do you (or anybody else) know the actual measurements of these engines? I'm looking to find out the distance between the center of the rear hub, to the front of the cylinder head (or I guess valve cover since we're talking about a 4T engine).

-And how reliable is a GY6?
-can a GY6 be (reliably) built to cruise at 65mph? I'm after the same power and speeds as a stock P200.
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So is anyone here familiar with the ins and outs of the GY6 engines? A couple days ago I did just realize that I have a spare (but tired) late model KTM 990R Adventure engine (f.i. twin cylinder) in my shop. Swapping that 115hp engine into anything would probably be a bad idea through. The engine alone weighs about 128lbs.
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yes. I can be of assistance.

I have a long case and a short case. let me dig them out this afternoon and I'll measure them up for ya
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Don't know if this helps but lost of expensive NSU parts:

https://thekneeslider.com/motorcycle-parts/motorcycle-parts.php?s=nsu
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Another option for somehow slinging in a different engine is to keep the body and frame the same length, but just have the rear tire stick however far out past the body. By doing that, the long Lambretta or ET/LX 150 engines might be able to fit?...I dunno.
Random pic from the internet. I'm guessing the rear portion of the side panels would have to be modified in some sort of fashion...especially to build an upper shock mount.
Random pic from the internet. I'm guessing the rear portion of the side panels would have to be modified in some sort of fashion...especially to build an upper shock mount.
Obviously I don't want to go crazy like this through.
Obviously I don't want to go crazy like this through.
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You don't want the same vibe as a 50cc scooter with a drag tire on it? It has so many advantages, like it doesn't even need a center stand. And it's theft-proof, because no self-respecting thief would be seen with that thing.
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14966
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14966
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
UTC quote
here's a comparison of an ET/LX and a Buddy125 (GY6 short case)

[OL= overall length, CL= Centerline of axle, END= front/back to the edge of furthest point, Mount= center line of the mount]

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

sorry the angle makes the measure lines look out of whack

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

the mount measure here is to the cantilever arm mount, the engine case mount is roughly 1" difference.

both come in at 15-ish wide

let me know if you want or need any addt'l measurements. or if you want me to measure a long case GY6 or a GTS motor. fwiw, most long case GY6 stuff comes with a bigger wheel, generally 14's and 16's, although some have 13's
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