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Hey All,


Been lurking here for a while as I was looking for a largeframe until I impulsively bought a complete basket case:

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text66872295826__72E78665-5AE9-44F0-A962-282E44AE4057

The shop manager where I worked has an old VBB that's mid 12v conversion so he was very excited about the acquisition.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textIMG_9232

It came without keys so that was the first order of business to take care of: I ended up drilling them out and replacing them all with a matched set of lock cylinders from scooterwest. If anyone has any questions about this process I'm happy to share the specifics. I'd rather not to make that info too public as that would make rekeying a stolen vespa a little easier.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textIMG_9435

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text67037723216__7F3F7C28-8620-4E84-B37D-7F65757D350B

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text67037511478__A389DD86-7216-4A3E-A625-FC88AE883C10

The replacements weren't entirely correct for the glovebox so I had to file the tangs on the backside of the new cylinder to match the stock one.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textIMG_9547

The engine and shifter grip were seized, and with some ATF+Acetone soaking I was able to break both free after about a week. Then I pulled the carburetor off, gave it a pretty thorough cleaning and was able to get the engine to fire and idle on starter fluid. Next up was cleaning out the gas tank, which was filled with some sort of gross powdery crud and rust.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textIMG_9729

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textIMG_9731

The petcock was replaced as well - I whipped up a wrench to get the tap out

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textIMG_9732

I then sandblasted the inside of the tank and in about ten minutes it looked brand new. I threw it all back together just in time to have to pull the vespa out of the shop as I had changed jobs. Luckily my NYC apartment has a backyard so I've been working on it there. I enlisted a coworker and her truck to help me move it.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text6001A6B1-AA54-4208-9740-DD8FA935D019

Then I couldn't get it to idle on it's own, no matter how much I messed with the throttle plate/mixture screws. I ordered a set of gaskets for everything between the carb and engine from SIP and got it all sealed back up - it immediately fired right up and I was able to tune the carb enough to get it to idle and rev relatively well. The revs still hang a bit after revving the engine up, but I ran out of patience for the time being. On to the clutch - it wasn't disengaging when I tried to shift so I went to pull it apart.

To my surprise, there was no reverse castle nut to get the clutch off, but rather just a 19mm nut. There was also no woodruff key where it looked like there was supposed to be one too. I rigged up a screwdriver to lock the clutch in place as the factory clutch fixing tool also wasn't going to work.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textIMG_0434

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textIMG_0435

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textIMG_0436

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textIMG_0437

And there's 4 plates? This machine continues to confuse me. The plates all look totally burnt, so I plan on ordering some replacements but am no longer sure what I need to get. I'd like to upgrade the clutch a bit as I plan on getting a bigger kit and some suspension mods this winter. Would love some recs if anyone has any. There are 21 teeth on the drive gear as well.

Another question I have does anyone know what year this is? I have checked all the available vin identifier links that I can find and none have been conclusive. Any chart I've referenced places it beyond 2005 I believe.
It has an electric starter (and I may just remove to get easier access to the idle mixture screw) I was told its a 2004 by the seller but he wasn't exactly the most confidence inspiring guy and said he found the vespa in a clients basement. Scooter Mercato guy said 2005, but I hadn't mentioned that it has KM's on the odometer so I'm thinking maybe this is a later model from canada or something? I have no idea. I sent a reg request to Vermont with it listed as a 2005.
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The outer groove is for the tab of castle type lock washer that goes under the castle nut. The tab prevents the lock washer from spinning under the nut. The inner key holding the clutch seems to be in it's place like it should.

If you want to go cheap on the cylinder, get a VMC Super G 177. If you want more, go for the VMC Crono with three part exhaust port.
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That's a cosa clutch, it has 4 plates from factory, newer setup and is why there isn't a castle nut.

Factory tool for older clutch is to thick for a cosa, I ground some off the tip that won't fit between plates.

https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Complete-Clutch/COSA22

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/clutch-sip-cosa-2-sport_93403000
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Thanks for the info guys! Will get some new clutch plates on order because even though this thing only has 7k KMs on the odometer, these plates are pitch black.

I can't wait to ride this thing. Last thing on the list is making sure the horn/turn signals all work. I'm also currently not getting any lights to turn on on the speedo. The bulbs were all replaced (speedo king Dave did a refurb for me - I'll get pics up next post) so I know it's not that.
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If getting a cylinder kit, a whole new stronger clutch, with a DRT 23 tooth would save time and money.
Whole scooter looks to be in pretty good condition. Think you did well.
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Alright! Got the first test ride underway last weekend and boy I gotta say these things are super fun.

Also the clutch was totally fried - new discs and got it all back together in a few hours
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text


Here's a little fly by vid-
https://www.flickr.com/photos/64957640@N04/52210416076/in/dateposted-public/

Now I am replacing the switches and started with the turn signal switch and wasn't able to figure out a way to feed the switch through the gap where the shifter and clutch cables run. Does anyone have any tips or do I have to make some room by removing the shifter cables to fit the switch through?
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed    ⬇️
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great news! Got some VT plates in the mail finally and all the lights and horn are in working order. I may want to change out the shifter cables as I kinked the housing when I was reinstalling some of the wiring for the controls. Will post photos of the first outing.

WOO!

perhaps it's time for an exhaust and a rear rack. Any recs?
Also what are people doing for insurance these days?
⬆️    About 1 year elapsed    ⬇️
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Alright crew - circling back with some problems after a year of sporadic riding. I have stairs at the front of my yard to get down to the street so the vespa only leaves the backyard when I have time and energy to get the ramp out and do the whole deal. Often need to recruit a pedestrian to help me push it back up the ramp when I get home. Easier to do after a return from the bar, haha.

So the issue that sprang up a few months ago is that all the lights stopped working.

-I've checked the bulbs and they're not blown
-the horn works
-I replaced the regulator as I thought the old one was shot
-battery works and holds a charge.

The manual doesn't seem to have much advice on where to go from here. Anyone have any recs? I'd love to get this thing back on the road.
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the_worm wrote:
Alright crew - circling back with some problems after a year of sporadic riding. I have stairs at the front of my yard to get down to the street so the vespa only leaves the backyard when I have time and energy to get the ramp out and do the whole deal. Often need to recruit a pedestrian to help me push it back up the ramp when I get home. Easier to do after a return from the bar, haha.

So the issue that sprang up a few months ago is that all the lights stopped working.

-I've checked the bulbs and they're not blown
-the horn works
-I replaced the regulator as I thought the old one was shot
-battery works and holds a charge.

The manual doesn't seem to have much advice on where to go from here. Anyone have any recs? I'd love to get this thing back on the road.
Maybe the lighting coil in the stator is bad? Bad ground?
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FridayMatinee wrote:
Maybe the lighting coil in the stator is bad? Bad ground?
Going to double check grounds everywhere afte this but I think I've been pretty thorough with a general connections check.

Is there a way to check stator coils without taking off the stator cover?

PFA
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textUntitled
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Quote:
is there a way to check the stator coils without taking off the stator cover?
I just went through the same stator troubleshooting. You can start without removing the flywheel (but you'll want to order a flywheel puller anyway to visually inspect the stator).

To test without pulling the flywheel, you'll need a multimeter and you can test the resistance of the wires coming out from the engine into the CDI. You can start by checking continuity - and then resistance.

Another member shared some good info in my thread here: https://modernvespa.com/forum/post2641549#2641549

Your stator is different than mine so you will likely need to track down what the correct wires to check are -and what resistance you should see.hope that gives you an idea of how to get started.
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I think the ohm values might actually be the same for your PX as my 1979 P. Hopefully someone else with more knowledge can chime in (I am hoping to learn as well).
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mor_ wrote:
I just went through the same stator troubleshooting. You can start without removing the flywheel (but you'll want to order a flywheel puller anyway to visually inspect the stator).

To test without pulling the flywheel, you'll need a multimeter and you can test the resistance of the wires coming out from the engine into the CDI. You can start by checking continuity - and then resistance.

Another member shared some good info in my thread here: https://modernvespa.com/forum/post2641549#2641549

Your stator is different than mine so you will likely need to track down what the correct wires to check are -and what resistance you should see.hope that gives you an idea of how to get started.
fantastic wow thank you sir! Going to try and chase this down later today
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Ok here are the stator values:

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textUntitled

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textUntitled

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textUntitled

Everything seems to be ok here.


External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textUntitled

Here's the voltage on the battery, and that doesn't change when the engine is running (went through multiple rev ranges) so I'm thinking the charging system is bad? I recently replaced the regulator/rectifier because I thought that was the issue but I'm not entirely sure what to check there.
Might just be a short somewhere in the system but I haven't found anything yet.

Thoughts?

Peeling through a number of wiring diagrams and am looking at this rats nest under the horn cover and it looks like some things may be incorrect depending on the diagram. Anything look out of the ordinary here?

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textUntitled
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Thinking about this a bit more, and think my advice sent you in the wrong direction (sorry).

I'm pretty sure the headlight runs off a different part of the stator than the ignition system. If there is a yellow wire coming out of the engine *i think* you should see continuity when connecting one end of the multimeter to yellow and the other to ground (engine case). If you don't see continuity it would suggest a bad lighting coil in the stator.

All lights except the headlamp should run off the battery. Headlamp runs off stator[/b]
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No. That's a Euro market PX, only starter and horn run through the battery. Everything else is AC powered. Power from stator goes directly to the regulator. For starters let's check the AC side. Disconnect the round plug, engine side and measure the stator AC output between black and blue (it should reach up to 40V AC while revving). If stator side is OK, plug the harness and measure the output between ground and the blue wire, regulator side (disconnected). If that's also OK, plug to the regulator and measure voltage on gray/green wire on regulator (should reach up to 13V AC). Report back…

*This circuit needs a specific regulator (pic below), try to source a Ducati, everything else is crap…
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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SaFiS wrote:
No. That's a Euro market PX, only starter and horn run through the battery. Everything else is AC powered. Power from stator goes directly to the regulator. For starters let's check the AC side. Disconnect the round plug, engine side and measure the stator AC output between black and blue (it should reach up to 40V AC while revving). If stator side is OK, plug the harness and measure the output between ground and the blue wire, regulator side (disconnected). If that's also OK, plug to the regulator and measure voltage on gray/green wire on regulator (should reach up to 13V AC). Report back…

*This circuit needs a specific regulator (pic below), try to source a Ducati, everything else is crap…
Are you saying that my scoot is a euro market px? It would make sense as it's got KM's on the speedo. I haven't been able to identify much else about it. None of the vin checker sites have been able to identify it.

Either way, this is great feedback. I will check those things early this week and report back. Thanks!
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Beyond what you've done, you're left with chasing down individual circuits. Having done this on my Stella, many of the problems were in the headset, especially running through the handlebars. The wiring through the tunnel tends to be ok.

You can bypass the switches by running a test wire from the junctions under the horncast directly to the thing you're trying to make work. You can check for continuity of individual wires with a multimeter or a test light. No fast way to do this really. It took me awhile to sort out my Stella.
Gotcha, bast-turd.
Gotcha, bast-turd.
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SaFiS wrote:
No. That's a Euro market PX, only starter and horn run through the battery. Everything else is AC powered. Power from stator goes directly to the regulator. For starters let's check the AC side. Disconnect the round plug, engine side and measure the stator AC output between black and blue (it should reach up to 40V AC while revving). If stator side is OK, plug the harness and measure the output between ground and the blue wire, regulator side (disconnected). If that's also OK, plug to the regulator and measure voltage on gray/green wire on regulator (should reach up to 13V AC). Report back…

*This circuit needs a specific regulator (pic below), try to source a Ducati, everything else is crap…
Okay, I checked all of these and they seem to be testing out fine except green/grey and ground voltage. I couldnt seem to get it to get above 1 volt


External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text[url=https://flic.kr/p/2pkjGgf]
Blue/Black on engine side at high revs

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text[url=https://flic.kr/p/2pkpped]
blue/ground on regulator side at idle

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text[url=https://flic.kr/p/2pkrCP4]
Green/Grey and ground

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text[url=https://flic.kr/p/2pkrDUA]
This is the regulator I currently have in the machine, I swapped out an old Ducati unit as I thought it could be faulty but I'm thinking maybe I was wrong.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text[url=https://flic.kr/p/2pkpqj9]
Old unit

Is there a way to check these before installing to make sure they work properly?
If the Ducati unit is in working order I'll swap that one back in.

Thinking maybe there's just a short somewhere. Weird that all the lights stopped working at once though. Trying to acquaint myself with all the electrics as it still feels like witchcraft to me.
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Since voltage drops, check again with the green disconnected from the flasher and if it still is close to 0, disconnect the gray/green from regulator and measure the G terminal of the regular to ground. If voltage is OK and close to 13V then the gray wire shorts somewhere to ground…
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SaFiS you are so helpful I appreciate this so much.

More green/grey troubleshooting. Swapped ducati regulator back in and all the numbers were the same as with the previous unit. Shame that I bought a new one for no reason. Anyone need a spare?

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2pkr7by]External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textConnected to ground and idling

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2pkr7bD]External inline image provided by member with no explanatory textDisconnected and idling. So voltage is dropping.
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[url=https://flic.kr/p/2pksGw2]External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

Green/Grey connector (disconnected from regulator) and ground with green/grey unplugged from flasher relay


[url=https://flic.kr/p/2pkropf]External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

Green/Grey pole on regulator with Green/Grey disconnected from flasher relay

Alright! Gonna try and find this short somewhere with the grey wire.
This might not be the only short, there were a few other non-working lights before they all went kaput. Front brake light switch wasn't working, and a few of the dash lights were intermittent, but this is giving me some confidence here.
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And the lord said!

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2pkJZHF]External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Let there be light!

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2pkJZHL]External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Traced the grey wire to the connector under the horn cover for the horn. Must be the faulty connector. Tested it out by bypassing the horn with this alligator clip deal. Got some crimp connectors to replace the broken one later today or tomorrow. Pics to come shortly.

Now time to tune the carb again. It's been so long since I've taken this thing out that and while it was idling to test the electrical bits it was being kind of funky. Anyone got an idea on shelf life of gas? I haven't thrown any fresh gas in for a long while. Got some fuel preserver just in case it sits for a while again. Hopefully not.
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External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

Out with the old

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

In with the new
Unfortunately my horn still sounds like it's getting 1/2 the power it needs, so I'll need to do a little cleaning of the contacts

Do the px150e's with a front drum brake have a front brake light switch? I haven't been able to find anything that looks like one around the lever/cable

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

Interestingly enough, the entire light circuit doesn't work when these two plugs are connected. Anyone got any idea what they are?
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You're missing the safety interlocking relay for the starter. Prevents the starter to turn unless you first pull in the clutch lever. It's in case the engine's in gear…

Leave them disconnected…
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Thanks again SaFiS!

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

can someone tell me what these are? Not sure if they're plugged into anything. Just was swapping connectors back and forth trying to see what they led to to no avail. Electric starter hasn't been working for a bit and am hoping one of these is swapped around. If I had had the foresight that the starter would be in the way during carb tuning I would have foregone this version but it was green and it was so much cheaper than the other ones I had looked at...

Or if someone could tell me which wiring diagram is definitively mine that would be helpful, haha
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So I figured out why my starter isn't working!
The clutch isn't disengaging again. Hmm.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

Got a leak coming out of this guy

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

Nice and juicy
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

https://flic.kr/p/2pwTKC3
(It's a video)

-and when I disengage and engage the clutch while it's running it makes some clacking sound and won't fully disengage.
Anyone got any thoughts? Seems like it's just stuck because it's been sitting for so long but the leak is something else....
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Sounds like the main bearing is shot…

You can try, with the engine switched off, hold the flywheel fins with both hands on each side and wriggle and see if there's any play. Shouldn't be any.

Also you can try putting one hand on the flywheel and engage/disengage the flywheel and see if you can feel it. Should be minimal movement.

Any play will be a sign of a worn bearing.
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108 wrote:
Sounds like the main bearing is shot…

You can try, with the engine switched off, hold the flywheel fins with both hands on each side and wriggle and see if there's any play. Shouldn't be any.

Also you can try putting one hand on the flywheel and engage/disengage the flywheel and see if you can feel it. Should be minimal movement.

Any play will be a sign of a worn bearing.
Ah good, got a smidgen of play on the flywheel. Wish I had a way to fix this on my own but might be time to shoot the horse...
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We're gettin this horse back on the road! Getting funds together to fix this rattling and depending on some things I may be going with a 177cc kit (taking recommendations but it seems like BGM is what I want to go with here).

So current *necessary* parts list is looking like this:
full engine gasket set
crankshaft bearings
crankshaft seals

and the things-to-check-while-I'm-in-there list is:
cush drive
gearset play (maybe a reshim?)
crankshaft (just making sure it doesn't look bad? I'm not entirely sure what I'd be looking for here but it's been recommended)
Cylinder condition (considering I had to really wail on the kick start lever to break it loose when it was seized I can't imagine it looks great inside the cylinder)

any other recommendations to look for while I'm in there? Any things I should also absolutely replace while the engine is apart?
@roland87 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1138
Location: Ukraine. Kyiv.
 
Molto Verboso
@roland87 avatar
'13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1138
Location: Ukraine. Kyiv.
UTC quote
the_worm wrote:
Any things I should also absolutely replace while the engine is apart?
Kickstart shaft buffers
Kickstart cog
Cruciform
Cush springs
@108 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
V range 50s
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2364
 
Ossessionato
@108 avatar
V range 50s
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2364
UTC quote
Driveshaft bearings (especially the one next to the wheel), rear brake pads, cotter pin for rear hub,
OP
UTC

Member
2004 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 44
Location: Brooklyn NY
 
Member
2004 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 44
Location: Brooklyn NY
UTC quote
Great feedback thanks guys! Will take any and all help I can get here.

Got started on the tear down last night and was slowed down by a stuck flywheel shroud bolt. Might be a few days before I get back to it with this noreaster blasting through.

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Had originally posted it for sale on fb marketplace (I'm sure some of you saw it) and was visited by a potential buyer and vespa enthusiast who re-lit the fire for me to get this back in action instead of selling it.

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Stoked to have found a local crew to rip around with when this px is back on the road.
OP
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Member
2004 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 44
Location: Brooklyn NY
 
Member
2004 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 44
Location: Brooklyn NY
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Alright! Made some good progress once the snow let up today:

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Definitely looks like this was sitting with some water for a while

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Piston has seen better days thats for sure, nothing insane though (correct me if I'm wrong?)

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Leaky, gunky, gross. Fur???

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Cylinder walls look like something was stuck in there for a bit

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Not too shabby, just leaky

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Stator looks like a stator

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And this is where i got stuck and had to call it a night. The front case is still stuck on that bottom pin next to the reverse oriented case bolt. Might have to get the torch out tomorrow and dig around for a drift pin to punch it through. Dang. Really looking forward to getting a good look at the inside of this thing.
OP
UTC

Member
2004 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 44
Location: Brooklyn NY
 
Member
2004 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 44
Location: Brooklyn NY
UTC quote
Alright, got the cases split today. Little torch, little mallet and was able to free the front case off and wow all the bearings in this thing are kaput.

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https://flic.kr/p/2pyoE6M

^ See the video for how bad this main bearing is


Also, this is a vlx1t vespa, with vlx1m code on the swingarm so its not a 2000's scooter. It's a 90's scooter.

Going to do a full overhaul here. Anyone got any brand recs for bearings and seals?
OP
UTC

Member
2004 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 44
Location: Brooklyn NY
 
Member
2004 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 44
Location: Brooklyn NY
UTC quote
Got the engine out today but not without some casualties

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Going to have to get creative on this one to get the bolt out. Luckily the exhaust is junk so I can cut it off for better access

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The other side of the broken bolt. Whoof.

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Shifter cross has definitely seen better days. Need to get a better look at the gears themselves, but this at least will definitely get replaced

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Grimey

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Engine out

Stoked to be moving forward here. Thinking about a BGM or Malossi 177 kit. Will also have to replace the crank but I think I'll stick with stock stroke since this is my first rodeo, but I'm not averse to having to spend the time tuning the carb
@mor avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
1974 v90, 1959 Allstate, 1979 p200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 89
Location: Eugene, OR
 
Enthusiast
@mor avatar
1974 v90, 1959 Allstate, 1979 p200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 89
Location: Eugene, OR
UTC quote
Nice work getting that all done with snow on the ground!
OP
UTC

Member
2004 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 44
Location: Brooklyn NY
 
Member
2004 PX150E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 44
Location: Brooklyn NY
UTC quote
mor_ wrote:
Nice work getting that all done with snow on the ground!
Thank you sir! Luckily most of it melted away by the end of the day
But
We got another round last night

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Luckily I bagged and tagged everything and brought it in yesterday:

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@moto64 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1775
Location: S.Salem, NY
 
Molto Verboso
@moto64 avatar
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1775
Location: S.Salem, NY
UTC quote
roland87 wrote:
Kickstart shaft buffers
Kickstart cog
Cruciform
Cush springs
The cush springs are often over-looked. They were by me, anyway.
They are under compression the entire time the motor is driving the wheel or the wheel is driving the motor. They can only take so much of that and lose tension. Sometimes they break into pieces because they become just coils of wire and get smashed around (you can hear them rattle) and sometimes they are still intact but the tension is gone.
The rivets are 3mm.
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