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Hi Guys.
I'm Attila..New to this forum and motoring generally.
So I managed to get hold onto a Vespa ET2 49cc 2T 2002 model.
However having starting problem once she warm up so I can go much as I want no problem but if I stop her she won't start again until she cooked down....stand anything between 5-40 min...depending how much I go on one round.
In that case nor kickstart no electrical start works but carb get flooded so once she cooled down she kicks in str8..
Changed CDI changed spark plug,cleaned carb and tuned it but the problem presist and no garage available for at least 2 weeks according to the local Piaggo garage (there is one more 350km away so that not an option)
Any advice could be a god send to know what to chk next...I'm a courier so I can't stand 20-40min after every ride.
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Carb float needle? Could be why it's flooding. I'm going through same thing on a 75cc xl at moment and waiting for needle to arrive as mine is worn . Put new cdi on too. I too wait 40 mins then it starts.

Identify your carb and head here to find correct float, think the ET2 was a PHVA 17.5, but there are variations. The link will adjust to your country you are browsing from. You dont have to buy from Europarts, just find the correct float needle and head to ebay.

https://www.dellorto.co.uk/product-category/complete-carburettors-dellorto-motorcycle-carburettors-parts/
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Could be the auto choke failing - it defaults to on, iirc, which makes warm starts very tricky
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ferriswolf wrote:
Carb float needle? Could be why it's flooding. I'm going through same thing on a 75cc xl at moment and waiting for needle to arrive as mine is worn . Put new cdi on too. I too wait 40 mins then it starts.

Identify your carb and head here to find correct float, think the ET2 was a PHVA 17.5, but there are variations. The link will adjust to your country you are browsing from. You dont have to buy from Europarts, just find the correct float needle and head to ebay.

https://www.dellorto.co.uk/product-category/complete-carburettors-dellorto-motorcycle-carburettors-parts/
Thanks...give a shot...strangely its way too cold...least colder today....Rnd 14°C and she was fine all day...really wierd issues.Yes I have that carb as well.its only flooring if she not starting up but the needle shouldnt be expensive so I just get one see if its sorting her out.
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xantufrog wrote:
Could be the auto choke failing - it defaults to on, iirc, which makes warm starts very tricky
Thought about it but have no multimeter so the only way guess warming her up and chk it see if she works or choke stay extended if she warmed up..
If so she acting upon warm start is that OK to disconnect the choke and connect when it's cold?If so she permanently stuck on position that would explain a lot of things.....why the hell she ate a lot....got about 65m on 5L gas.Hot start is a nightmare If works at all.
What happens if I disconnect a choke?
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You can see what the whole shebang looks like here:
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

SIP used to have a pdf uploaded on how to test it, but it looks like the old link I had is dead. You might be able to find it. But iirc the way to test is to measure the extension of the plunger at rest, connect it to 12v, and measure its extension level. There might be a thread on here where I reported the numbers from the workshop pdf but I can't say for sure

I see no harm in disconnecting it when the engine is warm, but the problem is it defaults to on, so disconnecting it won't help (because it will still be "open" allowing extra fuel in).

I actually got sick of mine eventually on my ET2 and bought a good old fashioned manual flip choke for it. Took it out of the equation because I'm old school

It's a long shot - my initial reaction was you had the same problems I did with my bad cdi on my et2. But you already tried replacing the cdi so...
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xantufrog wrote:
You can see what the whole shebang looks like here:
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

SIP used to have a pdf uploaded on how to test it, but it looks like the old link I had is dead. You might be able to find it. But iirc the way to test is to measure the extension of the plunger at rest, connect it to 12v, and measure its extension level. There might be a thread on here where I reported the numbers from the workshop pdf but I can't say for sure

I see no harm in disconnecting it when the engine is warm, but the problem is it defaults to on, so disconnecting it won't help (because it will still be "open" allowing extra fuel in).

I actually got sick of mine eventually on my ET2 and bought a good old fashioned manual flip choke for it. Took it out of the equation because I'm old school

It's a long shot - my initial reaction was you had the same problems I did with my bad cdi on my et2. But you already tried replacing the cdi so...
Yep...plus its only happens when warm...She almost bogged out when I was driving her home especially at lights n before cleaning the carb usually idle died off....set the idle just a pinch higher sorted that one but if its warm up(usally feeling it under the seat anyway)but warm start still an issues time to time....last time did a stop but my friend watch it after her so she ran a good 35-40 min then she gave up on me for a good hr before i managed to start her again....today no issues but its cold..12C just right now...I mean disconnecting like removing and plug it in....use my hand to choke her in the morning...but usally not leaving early anyway.
It has to be rnd 14 Ohm resistance to work properly..but mine probably stuck or not have the proper resistance to completely shut off let too much fuel in when she warm=flooding the carb n have to wait till she cool off to start her again(usally big smoke as a 2T)
Just ordered a new choke...it was hard £12...and if its slove it im good....if not than I just got a brand new choke so it should not fail me for a while and going into valve settings(that could make warm start a nightmare too)
She due to service at some point when I finally managing a slot
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Another option since its stuck "on" position to put a manual táp to the fuel line which is feeding the autchoke so that way I would have no problem starting when she is warm...(just for working till im getting a replacement)So start just fine n when she refuse to start close that tap n she should just start fine not allowing extra fuel in.
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i can't quite picture what you mean - the choke doesn't have its own separate fuel line.

IMO I wouldn't complicate things too much. Have you tried these diagnostic steps: "Won't start" diagnosis for beginners

?

If it's a leaky float needle, new float needle. If it's a bad choke, new choke or switch to a manual one. If it's no spark when warm it's probably still the CDI (I did get a bad new one once, just saying...).

Some diagnosis about why it won't start will show the best course of action (no spark when it is acting up, whatever)
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Doubt it's the needle, I'm leaning towards CDI or choke/fuel issue.

Until you get a new choke, carry a spark plug wrench with you. When she's being fussy, remove the spark plug and kick over the motor a dozen times. That will "air out" the cylinder and remove the flooded condition. Then reinstall spark plug and see if she'll fire.

One thing you can do to help us is next time it's acting up, pull the spark plug and hold the bottom of the spark plug to one of the two Phillip head screws located near the spark plug hole. Then use the electric start to spin the motor and watch the bottom
Of the plug. See if you see a spark jumping.

If you don't understand what I typed, youtube spark plug check to get the idea. This will eliminate CDI/spark gremlins from future conversations
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MJRally wrote:
Doubt it's the needle, I'm leaning towards CDI or choke/fuel issue.

Until you get a new choke, carry a spark plug wrench with you. When she's being fussy, remove the spark plug and kick over the motor a dozen times. That will "air out" the cylinder and remove the flooded condition. Then reinstall spark plug and see if she'll fire.

One thing you can do to help us is next time it's acting up, pull the spark plug and hold the bottom of the spark plug to one of the two Phillip head screws located near the spark plug hole. Then use the electric start to spin the motor and watch the bottom
Of the plug. See if you see a spark jumping.

If you don't understand what I typed, youtube spark plug check to get the idea. This will eliminate CDI/spark gremlins from future conversations
I have more serious issues than that...Cylinder leak...you can hear it if you lean close and you can feel air coming from the cylinder case vent....so order a gasket kit n let's get to lego.anyone has references how thight each nuts should be?
Maybe not so serious yet as in cold I have no problem. Running or starting only when it's warm so when engie reach optimal temperature it's expand so make the leak bigger..eg lost PSI for combustions....lol.Hate second hand scooter...🤣🤣 PS love ma Vespa
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Like I said in my pm, I really don't think you have a massive leak like that. The scooter blows air over the cylinder under the shroud with a fan. You can feel it and hear it. A cylinder leak of that magnitude and you'd probably have seized it by now.

Don't solder stuff and modify it. Don'tadd gaskets where there shouldn't be any - the machine is super simple - very few things can go wrong and very few are hard to fix. Focus on diagnosis IMO
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xantufrog wrote:
Like I said in my pm, I really don't think you have a massive leak like that. The scooter blows air over the cylinder under the shroud with a fan. You can feel it and hear it. A cylinder leak of that magnitude and you'd probably have seized it by now.

Don't solder stuff and modify it. Don'tadd gaskets where there shouldn't be any - the machine is super simple - very few things can go wrong and very few are hard to fix. Focus on diagnosis IMO
Yep! Air cooled motor! Fan is on the right side and blows over the cylinder and exits out the spark plug hole and left bottom side.
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MJRally wrote:
Yep! Air cooled motor! Fan is on the right side and blows over the cylinder and exits out the spark plug hole and left bottom side.
So than I don't have leak.Not the CDI or the Choke.Not the battery then why she struggle to start when she warm..Like sometimes catch it to just rev up n die instantly...soon im gonna have almost a completely new bike..(in parts)🤣🤣
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Please post diagnosis information.

Does it spark when you try to start it and it won't? What have you done to rule out the choke? Have you tested fuel flow when it doesnt want to start? Have you changed the float needle?

You say you don't have a multimeter... but are willing to buy parts and modify the bike. So just buy a multimeter for $15 bucks. Also look up the test I mentioned above from Piaggio factory service manual about plugging it into a 12v and measuring how much it extends.

Or just buy a new choke.... manual, auto, take your pick.
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xantufrog wrote:
Please post diagnosis information.

Does it spark when you try to start it and it won't? What have you done to rule out the choke? Have you tested fuel flow when it doesnt want to start? Have you changed the float needle?

You say you don't have a multimeter... but are willing to buy parts and modify the bike. So just buy a multimeter for $15 bucks. Also look up the test I mentioned above from Piaggio factory service manual about plugging it into a 12v and measuring how much it extends.
Or just buy a new choke.... manual, auto, take your pick.
I took her over to my pal so we proper tested the choke...it was the culprit..only 8 Ohm instead of 12-14 so its never heated up properly so it was always open enough to mess up the mixture so let too much fuel in...also explain my ultra low MPG and why idle never settled properly..tho a bit carb tune needed but only whit working choke.did cleaned the carb...
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Good sleuthing! Now you know what to fix.
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xantufrog wrote:
Good sleuthing! Now you know what to fix.
Change it....ran a bit better but still not able to start hot...so garage look at it tomorrow but according to them sounds like an engie rebuild.They ask me to took her down tomorrow.
What costs im look at it if that is the case?
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I have no idea why they think it needs an "engine rebuild" nor what they will charge.

I really think you should just go down the list from my link above - it starts and runs fine cold, so wait for it to NOT start and run fine, and just go down the list. How's the fuel flowing when it won't start? Pull the gas line and confirm the tap is opening and fuel is flowing. Release the gas cap to see if there's vapor lock. Is the plug getting wet? Do you have spark? I STILL can't find where you confirmed that it is and it's been suggested by several people... etc.

Start with the basics. Be methodical.

But I am getting the feeling this isn't going to be diagnosed over the internet. Hopefully your shop knows vespas and can get it resolved! Good luck
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Hermattila wrote:
Change it....ran a bit better but still not able to start hot...so garage look at it tomorrow but according to them sounds like an engie rebuild.They ask me to took her down tomorrow.
What costs im look at it if that is the case?
An engine rebuild at a garage is likely to cost you more than the scooter is worth. You are talking 70 to 80 euros per hour and tax and parts. In the uk, average cost £60 but high rate £80. Lowest I've ever seen is £40 but doubt they will be Vespa specialists at that rate. Don't be surprised to get more than a 700 euro bill the time they have replaced gaskets , rollers, belt and god knows what else. If you go down this route ensure they contact you before fitting parts because you could be in for a shock ; not trying to worry you but it's reality . That's the beauty of having a bloke you know help you who works for smaller sums or beer and pizza.
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