Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:09 am

Enthusiast
1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
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Location: Garland tx
 
Enthusiast
1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
Tue Jul 12, 2022 6:09 am linkquote
\\\

I would not trust this gas tank Indian part, there is no description and for the most part they don't properly fit
Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:46 am

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VNA1
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Location: Australia
 
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VNA1
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Thu Jul 14, 2022 1:46 am linkquote
Couple of questions on the steering
1. Looks like one of the ears has completely been knocked off. See photo. But the remaining ear is also too short as it does not catch on the stopper. What length should the ears be?
2. For the bottom race, there's some sort of cover? Is it meant to be painted ?









Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:28 pm

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VNA1
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VNA1
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Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:28 pm linkquote
These are bolt holes I mean. On the handlebar centre



Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:07 pm

Enthusiast
1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
 
Enthusiast
1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:07 pm linkquote
Aircobra wrote:
Couple of questions on the steering
1. Looks like one of the ears has completely been knocked off. See photo. But the remaining ear is also too short as it does not catch on the stopper. What length should the ears be?
2. For the bottom race, there's some sort of cover? Is it meant to be painted ?
The size of the ear you have is correct , you just miss one stopper



Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:08 pm

Enthusiast
1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
 
Enthusiast
1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:08 pm linkquote
Aircobra wrote:
These are bolt holes I mean. On the handlebar centre
Those holes is where the right tube of the throttle is bolted to it



Sat Jul 16, 2022 10:20 pm

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VNA1
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VNA1
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Sat Jul 16, 2022 10:20 pm linkquote
I am guessing it's there so the the pipe doesn't fly off? How thick is the steel pls? I ll have to make up one of these and weld it on
Sun Jul 17, 2022 12:51 am

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VNA1
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VNA1
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Sun Jul 17, 2022 12:51 am linkquote
Aplogies everyone for the stupid question. Found the 2 parts



Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:52 pm

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VNA1
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VNA1
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Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:52 pm linkquote
Interesting that's its a different design to the one in vespitas photo? My one must be an earlier or later design?
Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:09 am

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VNA1
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VNA1
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Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:09 am linkquote
does anyone know how to remove the pivot pin for this
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/frame-single-saddle-eco-front_79094200?q=saddle%20frame
i have ground off the ends, but its not budging
the parts diagrams shows that it comes out
interstingly, looks like I have a VNB, not VNA seat?
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/single-saddle-frame-wideframe-style-front_24104590?q=saddle%20frame
but that doesnt make sense as there are plenty of VNA photos on the net with VNB style seats
Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:39 pm

Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 1098
Location: Philadelphia
 
Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
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Location: Philadelphia
Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:39 pm linkquote
Post a pic of the seat. The VNA seat frame has the choke lever attached to it. It's a longish lever with a triangle at the back to pull up on to activate the choke. The VNB did away with that and has the choke lever in the frame at the normal spot.
Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:13 pm

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VNA1
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VNA1
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Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:13 pm linkquote
Pics







Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:16 am

Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 1098
Location: Philadelphia
 
Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
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Location: Philadelphia
Tue Jul 19, 2022 6:16 am linkquote
Yeah that's a VNB seat. No choke lever attached like mine below.

Have no clue about the pivot though. I didn't try to remove mine.



Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:46 pm

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VNA1
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VNA1
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Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:46 pm linkquote
my one does have the choke lever in the seat, but has 2 rivet holes per side. its in the rust removal elctrolysis bath right now. i'm going to get that pin out whatever it takes
Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:30 am

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VNA1
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VNA1
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Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:30 am linkquote
Rust stripped but will not give up. Drill time



Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:34 am

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VNA1
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VNA1
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Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:34 am linkquote
Correct me right now, but this is the world's only 57 mm vna piston.
So going thru the 55 manual, the only thing that matches is the vlt 150cc but did have the weird vna piston ? The barrel is certainly very different. And to add evidence, the vna barrel is also clrarly 57.
What do I have here ?



Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:51 am

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
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Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:51 am linkquote
Aircobra wrote:
Correct me right now, but this is the world's only 57 mm vna piston.
So going thru the 55 manual, the only thing that matches is the vlt 150cc but did have the weird vna piston ? The barrel is certainly very different. And to add evidence, the vna barrel is also clrarly 57.
What do I have here ?
I read somewhere a Motovespa? 150 top end will bolt on.
Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:57 am

Hooked
Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, Stock 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
Joined: 22 Jun 2022
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Location: Finland
 
Hooked
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Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:57 am linkquote
Looks exactly same as mine
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:58 am

Enthusiast
1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
 
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1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
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Location: Garland tx
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:58 am linkquote
Aircobra wrote:
Correct me right now, but this is the world's only 57 mm vna piston.
So going thru the 55 manual, the only thing that matches is the vlt 150cc but did have the weird vna piston ? The barrel is certainly very different. And to add evidence, the vna barrel is also clearly 57.
What do I have here ?
The Vespa VNA is a 125 cc engine.
The Standard cylinder bore is 54 mm and the standard piston diameter is 53.87 mm.
VNA clearance between the cylinder and piston is 0.14mm.
The piston on this picture belong to a cylinder for a 150 cc engine (VBA-VBB) with standard bore of 57 mm.
Your 56.78 mm Piston appear to be a 4th size over for a 150 cc engine.
Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:54 pm

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VNA1
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VNA1
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Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:54 pm linkquote
Here is my full collection back from the machine shop.
The vna crank has been taken out with a sledgehammer- see the ends. Machine shop says that for all 3 I can just put on standard size rings. Is that correct.
As far as vna gear goes, I think somebody must have tried to hot it up by boring it out and using the vna piston







Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:29 pm

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VNA1
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VNA1
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Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:29 pm linkquote
More weird . The ring fixing pin are missing frome the vna cylindarr



Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:36 pm

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Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:36 pm linkquote
Also notice piston rings are different thickness between the 2and 3 port . Why?
Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:22 pm

Enthusiast
1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
 
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1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
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Location: Garland tx
Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:22 pm linkquote
Aircobra wrote:
Here is my full collection back from the machine shop.
The vna crank has been taken out with a sledgehammer- see the ends. Machine shop says that for all 3 I can just put on standard size rings. Is that correct.
As far as vna gear goes, I think somebody must have tried to hot it up by boring it out and using the vna piston
Again:
There is a different between a 150 cc engine VBA_VBB and your VNA 125 cc engine.
You have a mixture of parts (piston, cylinder and crankshaft) that DO NOT BELONG to the VNA engine as they belong to a 150cc engine! You have 3 cylinders, and 3 crankshaft with pistons and cranks on your picture. The cylinder on the left is a VNA 125 piston ported with a 57.15 bore and 150cc piston. This cylinder is ruined, the bore on a VNA cylinder should not exceed 54.8mm. (last 4th over)
The crankshaft on the left its also for a VNA 125cc engine as the bushing for the gudgeon pin on the conrod is brass. this crank has a 54mm stroke. The 150 cc crankshafts that you have to the middle and and the right of the picture, have a roller bearing for the gudgeon pin instead and a 57 mm stroke. they are both, along the with the two cylinders, for tye 150cc engine. none of these 3 cylinders that you have will be good for your VNA engine.
Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:24 pm

Enthusiast
1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
 
Enthusiast
1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:24 pm linkquote
Aircobra wrote:
More weird . The ring fixing pin are missing frome the vna cylindarr
this is not usable.
Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:25 pm

Enthusiast
1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
 
Enthusiast
1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:25 pm linkquote
Aircobra wrote:
Also notice piston rings are different thickness between the 2and 3 port . Why?
150cc vs 125cc...
very simple
Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:39 pm

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VNA1
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VNA1
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Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:39 pm linkquote
yes, the other 2 sets are for my VLB sprint motor which is backup if i can't get a vna going
so, if i understand you
1. even though the cylinder is way over spec, i can use this piston
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/piston-meteor_19410000
which will give me the correct .14 clearance
2. i can get a new stock VNA crank here also
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/crankshaft_45152000

.. and other then the danger of the cylinder being too thin, the whole thing should work?
Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:01 am

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 3047
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
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2007 Stella 225
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Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:01 am linkquote
Aircobra wrote:
yes, the other 2 sets are for my VLB sprint motor which is backup if i can't get a vna going
so, if i understand you
1. even though the cylinder is way over spec, i can use this piston
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/piston-meteor_19410000
which will give me the correct .14 clearance
2. i can get a new stock VNA crank here also
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/crankshaft_45152000

.. and other then the danger of the cylinder being too thin, the whole thing should work?
What is the cylinder wall thickness of bored 125 VS 150?
Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:55 am

Enthusiast
1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
 
Enthusiast
1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:55 am linkquote
[quote="Aircobra"]
yes, the other 2 sets are for my VLB sprint motor which is backup if i can't get a vna going
so, if i understand you
1. even though the cylinder is way over spec, i can use this piston
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/piston-meteor_19410000
which will give me the correct .14 clearance
2. i can get a new stock VNA crank here also
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/crankshaft_45152000

.. and other then the danger of the cylinder being too thin, the whole thing should work?


Why would you want to use a VNA crank with 54 mm stroke on a 150 cc cylinder that require a crank with a 57 mm stroke ? how are you going to install a UA16 carburetor on the 150 cc cylinder? the ports on the piston will not line up... in addition the VNA crank is a direct intake, full circle designed for a piston ported cylinder, The 150 cc crank is designed for a rotary pad technology disc valve. It would not work. do not mix a 125 VNA crank with a 150 cc cylinder for the VNA engine. . The 150 cc cylinder is designed for the SI 20 dell 'Orto carburetor installed directly on top of the engine cases, the UA 16 for the VNA will be small for the 150cc and you will not b able to install it on the cylinder... You need to make this right... it will not work the way you want to do it.

Last edited by VespistaForever on Sat Jul 23, 2022 2:29 pm; edited 7 times in total
Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:57 am

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1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
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1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
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Location: Garland tx
Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:57 am linkquote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
What is the cylinder wall thickness of bored 125 VS 150?
Whatever you have there on your VNA cylinder plus 3 mm. VNA cylinder is pretty small and there is not enough meat for the 57 mm + bore and piston.
Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:59 am

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1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
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1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
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Location: Garland tx
Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:59 am linkquote
.. and other then the danger of the cylinder being too thin, the whole thing should work?
[/quote]

No, it would not work,
1) Walls to thin with your bore
2) 150 cc piston ports on a 125 VNA cylinder will not line up. Both are designed for a different stroke
Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:21 pm

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VNA1
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VNA1
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Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:21 pm linkquote
The cylinder on the left is a vna cylinder. See photo ,complete with the ua carb



Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:23 pm

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VNA1
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VNA1
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Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:23 pm linkquote
Cylinder thickness 3.75 at the bottom. I assume it's a vna cylinder because it has the intake port in the cylinder



Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:27 pm

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VNA1
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VNA1
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Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:27 pm linkquote
Also the little holes are straight through to the piston interior and this looks consistent with pics off the net. I assume this is for lubrication for the rings . In the sprint version, they form a notch to stop rings rotating



Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:30 pm

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VNA1
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Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:30 pm linkquote
So to wrap up
1. Stock vna cylinder bored to 57(not by me)
2. Stock vna 54 stroke crank
3. 57 deflector piston with matching rings
Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:27 pm

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1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
 
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1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
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Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:27 pm linkquote
Aircobra wrote:
Also the little holes are straight through to the piston interior and this looks consistent with pics off the net. I assume this is for lubrication for the rings . In the sprint version, they form a notch to stop rings rotating
Suppose to have a pin in the hole to stop rings rotation and not an open hole.
Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:27 pm

Enthusiast
1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
 
Enthusiast
1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:27 pm linkquote
Aircobra wrote:
Cylinder thickness 3.75 at the bottom. I assume it's a vna cylinder because it has the intake port in the cylinder
This is a VNA cylinder ,the wall is too thin.
Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:33 pm

Enthusiast
1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
 
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1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:33 pm linkquote
Aircobra wrote:
So to wrap up
1. Stock vna cylinder bored to 57(not by me)
2. Stock vna 54 stroke crank
3. 57 deflector piston with matching rings
1) The stock VNA cylinder bore that you have is 57.15 and the piston is 56.87 according to your picture. This will put the clearance between the cylinder and the piston to 0.28...
The Maximum clearance allowed is 0.13mm...
2) The 57 mm piston for the 150cc is not compatible with the VNA piston ported cylinder,
The VNA piston has a cut on the intake port side that the 57 mm piston doesn't.
you need a different 54 mm cylinder and piston for the VNA



Sat Jul 23, 2022 7:14 pm

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 3047
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
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2007 Stella 225
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Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sat Jul 23, 2022 7:14 pm linkquote
VespistaForever wrote:
1) The stock VNA cylinder bore that you have is 57.15 and the piston is 56.87 according to your picture. This will put the clearance between the cylinder and the piston to 0.28...
The Maximum clearance allowed is 0.13mm...
2) The 57 mm piston for the 150cc is not compatible with the VNA piston ported cylinder,
The VNA piston has a cut on the intake port side that the 57 mm piston doesn't.
you need a different 54 mm cylinder and piston for the VNA
What happens if you cut that notch?
Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:49 pm

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VNA1
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VNA1
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Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:49 pm linkquote
Good idea. If someone can tell me the size I can just cut it. Presumably it's to clear the crank sides
Sat Jul 23, 2022 9:05 pm

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VNA1
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VNA1
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Sat Jul 23, 2022 9:05 pm linkquote
Great news. Someone on the forum had a spare carb , complete with the piston . So I 'm getting closer by the minute. Case has a crack, but nothing that can't be fixed



Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:29 pm

Enthusiast
1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
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Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
 
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1952 faro basso,P200E, Allstate, ET3, V98, Vespa Bacchetta, 1954 Allstate
Joined: 07 Jul 2022
Posts: 66
Location: Garland tx
Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:29 pm linkquote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
What happens if you cut that notch?
You will be still way out of the clearance specs …your clearance should not exceed 0.12 mm
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