Modern Vespa

Hey Bernie-

Any way to set up a power curve controller? One thing I do NOT lie is that coming off a vehicle that has a power curve, its tricky to no over twist on corners etc. It would also be a plus for beginners who should have a very slow curve at first.

Definitely. The motor controllers are *nearly* limitless with what parameters you can tinker with. As long as you have a PC that runs windows, you can change all settings in a matter of minutes.

So, the first prototype of the swingarm has been fabricated. I sent my CAD files to Send Cut Send. 10 days later, two perfect swingarms/brackets arrived in the mail. I welded everything together using 1" steel pipe as the connecting pieces. Very sturdy even before adding 18 gauge cross-supports above and below.

One bad thing: Ideally the wheel would be 1 inch further back! AND the stock shock cannot reach the shock mount without cutting into the frame. My goal is to make this conversion entirely reversible. So, I made a new CAD model and sent it off to SCS. In 10 days time I will have the perfect swingarm. Exciting!

On the downside, I only have one Vespa (currently). My P200. I put a lot of work into getting this thing running. But, I had to pull the motor to put the new EV motor in. Too bad.
At least I've got a dialed spare P200 engine on the shelf!

Here's some pics of the "too-short" swingarm.

maybe just me but I think the wheel needs to move back more than 1"

^^^

In the second picture the shock looks about in the right position. If so, maybe the swing arm needs to be 3-3.5 inches longer?

New and improved swing arm bits and pieces are on their way!

This version should relocate the rear wheel back around 3.5 inches. It also has a further back portion to allow for the stock shock to mount as it was originally intended.

I also made some thicker electric motor mounting plates because over-engineering is always better than under

kajiit house of wares an fix you right up... how about a rally 180 electric?

it's looking good man! can't wait to see the finished product!

That is a cool project!
I have 2 sons studying engineering and and old Vespa 50 Special in the basement...
This would be a perfect school engineering project for them.
It would be really cool if you could share the kits specs as wel as the cad drawings, at school they have all the tools and skills it takes to built them!

Kind regards from Belgium

New Electric Vespa on the way! I "inherited" this rough small frame through a trade. More pictures to come soon!

Some specs in the meantime:
3kw hub motor
52V battery
50amp (continuous) motor controller

Well! Here it is. The rusty and crusty EV Vespa.
I've been zipping around town on this (while staying in the bike lane).
I am currently stuck at a max speed of 20mph. The motor controller is programmed by motor rpm. I just order the programming cable and should have this fixed by next week.
I also just put in another order of swing arm parts and more motors. I'll post some more step-by-step pics of the next build.
I have one more small frame that I will be converting.
If anyone has any other Vespa Frames/forks, hit me up! I'll buy them off of you and you can even keep the engine!
Cheers!
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Took the rusty orange 100 sport to a Vespa Swap meet in Southern California this weekend. I have now affectionately named it the "crust bucket".

I was expecting to get some heat from the Vespa purists but everyone was excited and happy to see that a rusty Vespa was being put back on the road! I even put some old faro basso/handle bar vespa parts on it for the day!

Good news: This thing can pull wheelies no problem.
Bad News: I let my brother in law test ride it and he crashed it pretty quickly... good thing it's a beater! Too much torque for the unexperienced rider.

More Good News: I made a new swingarm for my other small frame. Gen II of the E vespa swing arm has a cross brace (and my logo ).

I couldn't find any rubber motor mounts to fit just right so I bought an over sized pair and I am going to lathe them down tonight for the perfect fit!

The power curve is key- they dont ride like a "normal" motor, they have instant power so if you can program the power curve to match gas motors it would be easier for newbies to ride.

Or just put a warning label on them:

WARNING:
No n00bs allowed.
Get Gud before riding.

Well! The stars just aligned.

I just secured a P200 and 2 Rallys.

My next conversions to come: An Electric P200 and and Electric Rally. The other Rally I will keep 2 stroke of course

Hit me up if you need a rally or p200 engine though! These things are going electric!

Also! As far as throttle mapping goes.

I took Dsnyder's advice and I change the throttle to an exponential response instead of linear.

These throttles are basicsally potentiometers with a voltage range from 0V-5V.

0V is closed throttle and 5V is wide open.

That should produce a "lag" effect that we are used to with gas powered engines.

Ideally, You could map an electronic throttle repsonse to the motor rpms! That would be really cool. However, you would need to incorporate a small arduino/raspberry pi that could do some easy math for this to work. Maybe in my next generation of this kit....

Good on ya.

Your scoots your choice... but... one kindly intended suggestion... I'd sell the whole Rally as they are collectible and getting rarer. Would certainly fund an electric Sprint (Same frame as the rally, less collectable.) This will keep the anoraks from crying... some. And it'll keep a rare scoot on the road.

And down those lines, you may choose to electrify old Bajaj's - specifically the 4t 2002 through 2007 variety. Old school look, but not as collectable as an actual 2t Vespa...

I'm definitely not an e-hater. Just thinking about the preservation of our little beasts....

Good idea. They are selling in the $400-500 range because you can't get parts for the motors.

Exactly - if I was going to make electric LFs, I'd use that husk - and a bonus - the glove box is huge!

how coincidental... I know a guy that's got one of those Bajaj's kicking around....

I'll bet you don't have to be The Amazing Carnack to predict he'd let it go for a Very Reasonable Price, either.

off brand magic 8 ball says: all seens port two yurs

The only real thing that bugs me about electric conversions is that you can kinda see instantly that it's an electric conversion. The 'swing arm' looks industrial and out of place to my eye.
Is there any reason you couldn't make your swing arm like this so the bulk of it is out of sight?

Agreed with Birdsnest - maybe steer clear of the rarer ones...
But really like your projects!
Don't think it has to be one of the other.
Electric Vespas are just different.
More in-towners in my view.
Like the idea of having both.

Ginch!
Good eye.
Agreed - now that you've pointed it out.
A hidden swing arm would improve the look.

Bernie - You should bring one buy my shop next week and let the boys have a look at your work - live!
Charlieman's Scooter Shop Build Extravaganza Deluxe (Page 5)

The swing arm electric hub way, like this one, is sort of cool, but I must admit that the one with an electric motor bolted in place of the top end is the way to go. The carb, cylinder head, piston, rod, and crank are removed. Then the original engine case, axle, clutch, gears, and shifter are all retained. Just think; you could still change the oil!
There's a link to it somewhere in here.

Agreed! Come by Thursday when I'll be there!

I guess the restriction is coming from the very small area to mount a battery. I see on retrospective scooters where the Original poster got their kit, you can have dual batteries on the larger frame model, one in the tank space, one under the panel where spare wheel would sit; hence greater range. So this being said, could a project be done to incorporate a side car and utilize this space so room for passenger but larger battery somehow mounted under side car seat or possibly in the front cone of sidecar?!?!? If you can think it, somebody will probably attempt it. Piaggio have made an E version of the Ape.

I am intrigued by the electric scoots, but I must admit if I want to build one, I would look for P-series only. If I only had a Rally/Sprint sitting around, then it would be converted so nothing would hamper the ability to return it to 100% stock.

Edit

Picked up the 3 scoots last night. Boy do I love my sprinter van! Fit 3-ish vespas with ease and room for a couple more

As far as converting these classics, I agree! Nothing should ever be done to them that can't be reverse. These swingarms bolt in at the engine mount location and use the stock suspension too. You don't need to replace the head set either because I just started using a physical cable actuated electric throttle box. So that's another plus in reversiblity. My crust bucket is an expection...there wasn't enough good metal to bolt in any swing arm (stock or ev) so I ended up welding in my swingarm. At least this one has been saved from the scrap pile! To clarify, all other conversions will be 100% reversible

charlieman22 - I'm down! I'm in Southern California so I'll pm you.

Ginch - I like the idea of a hidden swing arm. I love Vespa cross and would love to create an ev dirtbike vespa. I've been looking at making a swigarm that would house a separate electric motor that would be connect via chain to a sprocket on the rear wheel. That way the rear wheel can take a beating from jumps and rocks without compromising the motor. When I get around to this project, I will def use your curved swing arm idea for better motor clearance! Thanks!!

ferriswolf - I've had Apes in the past! That was before I really understood EVs. i'm kicking myself for selling them and not converting one. It would be super easy (and way cheaper than all that money I spent tracking down old Ape parts...)

Last edited by bernietime on Thu, 16 Mar 2023 18:52:46 +0000; edited 1 time

Here's the scoots in my sprinter

Go, Bernie, go.....

Bernie,
Amazing and inspiring project. I have a 1962 BBV that is not running, that I have been considering converting with this Kit from Retrospective. Do you think these kits are do-able for someone with only basic mechanical skills/tools, as Recrospective claims?

Thanks!

Yes! More or less. When I installed this kit for my buddy a year ago, the kit arrived from retrospective without installation instructions. After some pestering, they sent us their rough draft of their instructions pamphlet. There seems to be some small changes between each version of their kits meaning that the instructions don't match up perfectly. However, with some wiring experience, the youtube videos that they just uploaded showing how to install, and this forum, you should definitely be able to do it yourself. Feel free to pm me anytime and ask me questions. Especially when it comes to wire colors and where they go!

Building out my second smallframe that I have sitting around. This version of the swingarm is 95% perfect. I'm really happy with this set up. Same 3kw hub motor per usual.

I'm using a headset that I had in storage. Does anybody know what year/model it's from? Looks older than the 70s...

How is that possible?

Battery-side door says 70's Primavera.

headset looks VBB, so pre 67?

Good question!
Fitment to the stock engine mounts and fitment of the motor are 100% perfect.
I am not quite satisfied with the shock mount. I had initially designed it to be a bolt-on piece.
However, upon assmebly I realized that it would deliver force more linearly AND fit better if it was a part of the main swing arm. So, I cut and welded my bracket of for this iteration. In the future, it will all be one continuous piece.

See the CAD file images for a look at the "old" version vs. the "new" version which I am about to have sent out to be cut.

How do you keep two swing arm brackets from moving independently and causing twist issues? Or is that not an issue in this setup? I've been intrigued by an electric setup, however swingarm welding, design and structural integrity is a bit intimidating for me.