Modern Vespa

When I was looking we were getting scoots from both locals, I think ESS and the seat lock location were the obvious differences. So, not quite same same.

😱😂
I like the 11" wheels on my Primavera, fun and twitchy in a good way.
I got a line on another 2018 Primavera I might pick up as well if planets align.
Sensei has said he likes the little wheels too but also think he said 2017 was supposed to be last year of 11" wheels on the Primavera in 🇺🇸

Folks get bent out of shape over a lot of stuff these days....
My 10 year old Kymco has been running like a top and was made in China, not Taiwan.
(I've long considered Taiwan to be the new Japan - for the quality of things which have passed before me for years now)

O.S.

OldSchoot. You are absolutely right. I certainly felt upset before. My insular pride regarding my own Italian heritage was over-zealous. More ironically the concept of anyone being Italian didn't really exist until King Umberto the 1st united this young country in 1870 we now modernly call Italy. Before that there was many fighting city-states at war with each other. Further foolishly, I am Sicilian to boot (yes that was a terrible pun - and for those of us that didn't get the joke,,, Sicily is the island at the South of Italy which is physically shaped on a map like a boot). But I really originally had thought my Piaggio (and a Vespa) was Italian. I still like to think so with some pride.
Unfortunately, the Made in Vietnam sticker that I scratched off from inside my seat bucket is gone forever.
Funny though how Vespa is never advertised as PROUDLY MADE IN VIETNAM !!!!!

I can remember a time as a kid in the 70s that made in Japan was a joke quality wise, then they ate our lunch but gave us reliable, economical cars.

South Korea used to make cheap products, Hyundais were crappy at first.

Taiwan is capable and has been making high quality products for some time, for a price their carbon fiber work on bicycles is A+ grade.

I believe China is capable of giving you down and dirty low low cost products as well as capable of higher mid level quality products for much less money compared to US and other Western nations. Chinese tools Gearwrench brand is pretty decent for the money as well as some of their pocket folding knives are an incredible value.
China products deserves a place in our home and garage but not the majority of everything.

I am willing to pay a bit more for quality products from USA, Japan, UK and other free(ish) countries, as well as our neighbor Mexico if the bang for the buck is there.

I watched this video the other day and I have to ask myself? Is a $129 ratchet really worth it. I've been using a Kobalt one for years.

Agreed. Although, using that analogy, Vespa looks like they're wanting to charge Snap-On prices for stuff made by Pittsburg

In 15 years I have only had to replace the Kobalt ratchet once. The selector broke inside so the wrench just spun. I think at this point in time the only reason to use a Mac or Snap on is that they come to the door of their customers who use the tools daily. No driving to Harbor Freight, Home Depot or Lowes to exchange a broken tool.

For me I just have to use a backup tool until I can drive to the store. In my case it's only happened twice.

After experiences with Fiat 124's snd 128's in the 60's and 70's....in salty Massachusetts....I no longer - in my mind - used the words quality and Italian in the same sentence.
Suits and shoes maybe....
But Vespas are beautiful to look at....as are Alfas and Fiats and some Piaggios.
I am very impressed with the Italian design of my Liberty, and with the quality of the parts and assembly in Vietnam.
O.S.

ZAP indeed points to made in Italy.

As stated previously ZAP isn't as important as the number in the VIN that tells you where it was assembled. Zongshen built Piaggio Fly 50 and 150s all had ZAP but either the fifth or sixth digit digit, not sure which, indicated the assembly plant location. Lance scooters all start with R in their VIN numbers, which is Taiwan, even though they are assembled in SYM's China plant.

We take fresh delicious nutritious milk from our cows that roam freely in the luscious pastures of our south pacific paradise, take the water out of it and seperate it into its constituents. These are shipped to Europe and reconstituted there and as such regarded as made in Europe to get around milk import tariffs.

re: high end tools (snap-on/Mac, etc) v cheaper alternatives

there is a difference. if you use them every.single.day you can tell the difference. the weight, the balance, the tactile feel, the action.

price doesn't always correlate to quality; sometimes you do pay a premium for a name brand-- that I won't dispute.

but if your livelihood counts on tools, you want the best because it was designed and built to do that day in and day out comfortably without fail for years.

re: bikes

it should read: built in Italy with parts made in china. not that there's anything wrong with that!

Aloha. Years ago I gave my then very beautiful Chuukese girlfriend an ensemble of many Gucci products that were otherwise gathering dust in my luggage. My brother brought much of it back with him after he completed medical school in Catania Sicily where he in five years there had gathered a small warehouse of Italian luxury products.

This otherwise completely loving Micronesian woman I gifted was absolutely livid and insulted. So Sarin explained to me that she and her friends and family had been the ones who made these specific Gucci products (along with Fendi, YSL, Cartier, Tiffany etc. you name it they sewed it). It all said on it Made in Italy, physically brought back from Italy.

How is that possible?? Ok. There are in the South Pacific special Economic Zones designated by the United Nations along with treaties. When the Chuukese worker reports to work in the Federated States of Micronesia FSM Gucci factory they enter a special geographical area that is designated part of the sovereign government of Italy. All within the factory is Italian jurisdiction, Italian laws, everything 100% authentic Italian except NOT Italian wages. I don't think they even had retirement nor health insurance. If you got sick you were fired. So for a pittance these slaves work in the factory. Slavery is nothing new. Itz their normal.

No wonder their embroidered skirts for example are so gorgeous. In the Micronesian (Italian) factory they assemble and sew it all. end of story

Years ago I asked a guy in my motorcycle club who owned a garage fixing cars what the real difference was between a Craftsman ratchet and Snap On. He said that when you work with a tool almost every minute of every day the wear is considerable. "A Craftsman will be loose and shot after days of constant use. A Snap On stands up much longer. It's worth it in the long run." I get it.

Also the Snap-on and high end tool trucks come to the mechanical and bodyshops directly which helps save mechanics time and money for purchasing tools, warranties issues and to show them new tool innovations.

I'm a shade tree mechanic and have all Craftsman ratchets, sockets and wrenches. They work good enough for me. The tools that really matter are my torque wrenches. I went all in and got Snap-On and learned how to use them properly. Plus I can get them calibrated/certified thru my employer for free.

I'm thinking that most of us, who prefer to ride rather than tinker - would do just fine with Chinese tools bought off of the dollar table at our local hardware store.
I've been using those, and "good" tools for decades on cars, bikes and scooters. Never broke one yet.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe most folks are wrenching every day or week on their rides?
I just make sure I'm using the right tool. If I don't have it, I go get it.
O.S.

Hyundais are still crap as far as I'm concerned. My wife's 8 y.o. i30 with 80K KMs, always serviced on time has an engine knock rendering it pretty much worthless.

Could be 'knocking on heaven's door'.