Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:07 am

Addicted
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 816
Location: Belgium
 
Addicted
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 816
Location: Belgium
Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:07 am linkquote
The competition is getting hot in the 3 wheeler world.

Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:59 am

Hooked
2016 Mp3 500ie Sport
Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 132
Location: California
 
Hooked
2016 Mp3 500ie Sport
Joined: 28 Jul 2019
Posts: 132
Location: California
Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:59 am linkquote
I ride my 2016 MP3 500ie sport for touring and racing around the local mountains; not so much for commuting.

Looking at the on-paper specifications I would take the Kymco CV3 due to the better parallel twin engine, better electrical reliability, and less complicated tilt lock system. Though I would miss the storage space of the Mp3, its offset by the superior performance and reliability of the Kymco.

But I do wonder about the exposed belt that drives the rear wheel. On the CV3 the belt is exposed to the elements while on the Mp3 the belt is somewhat (if not fully) covered. Its not really any different than dirt-bikes or other motos that have an exposed metal chain driving the rear wheel and those get along just fine. But on those chain driven bikes, the expectation is that the owner would be regularly cleaning and lubricating the drive chain.

Would the exposed drive belt of the Kymco CV3 wear out faster than the covered belt on the Mp3? Would we have to do more maintenance and inspections of the belt due to increased direct accumulation of dust and grit?

I do not ride off-road or on especially terrible roads (its a scooter, not an ADV) but I do go on long 1,000+ mile trips through the mountains which is where the superior engine of the CV3 would be a huge improvement.

PS: Yes, I'm aware I could just get a regular traditional motorcycle, but the wife fully believes a 3-wheeler is safer, etc so in deference to her I stay on 3-wheel fun. Also; I've noted that people tend to smile and wave when they see the Mp3 vs other bikes, so thats nice
Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:38 am

Addicted
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 816
Location: Belgium
 
Addicted
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 816
Location: Belgium
Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:38 am linkquote
Belt drives are essentially maintenance free, other than the prescribed replacement intervals. Thing along the lines of a timing belt on a car. Long lived and replaced seldomly.

No cleaning, lubing, greasing.

A few examples: Suzuki's Burgman 650 call for a replacement interval of 60Kmi/100K km. Can Am Spyder is listed at 50K mi/75K km. Compare that to Piaggio which calls for replacement at only 1/10th the interval and the reduced running cost is a no brainer.

However, just like tires a old belt needs replacement even if it has seen very low use.
Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:55 am

Member
MP3 500 HPE 2019
Joined: 28 Jun 2022
Posts: 39

 
Member
MP3 500 HPE 2019
Joined: 28 Jun 2022
Posts: 39

Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:55 am linkquote
sbaert wrote:
Belt drives are essentially maintenance free, other than the prescribed replacement intervals. Thing along the lines of a timing belt on a car. Long lived and replaced seldomly.

No cleaning, lubing, greasing.

A few examples: Suzuki's Burgman 650 call for a replacement interval of 60Kmi/100K km. Can Am Spyder is listed at 50K mi/75K km. Compare that to Piaggio which calls for replacement at only 1/10th the interval and the reduced running cost is a no brainer.

However, just like tires a old belt needs replacement even if it has seen very low use.
And for our American friends must add in all the harleys I have had in the past all had belts, and never once did I have a problem, for the moment going to stick with my new to me 2020 hpe 500 sport, and let all the rich people be test pilots for the first batch of Piaggio 530,s and Kymcos
Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:31 am

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41214
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41214
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:31 am linkquote
You guys are confusing V-belts in a CVT (Piaggio) and toothed drive belts (final drive belts / timing belts etc).
The wear characteristics are completely different.
Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:24 pm

Addicted
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 816
Location: Belgium
 
Addicted
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 816
Location: Belgium
Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:24 pm linkquote
But the Burgman uses a CVT, and yes I was aware about the toothed aspect.
Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:28 pm

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41214
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41214
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:28 pm linkquote
sbaert wrote:
But the Burgman uses a CVT, and yes I was aware about the toothed aspect.
It's a different type of belt in the Burgman.

The GP800 and Aprilia RSV850 had CVTs but a final chain drive. That was the death of them - if it had been a low maintenance belt drive many more might have been bought.
Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:35 pm

Ossessionato
MP3 500 - GTV250
Joined: 07 Jul 2010
Posts: 2970
Location: Near Pittsburgh
 
Ossessionato
MP3 500 - GTV250
Joined: 07 Jul 2010
Posts: 2970
Location: Near Pittsburgh
Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:35 pm linkquote
jimc wrote:
You guys are confusing V-belts in a CVT (Piaggio) and toothed drive belts (final drive belts / timing belts etc).
The wear characteristics are completely different.
So could you give a few examples of these different belts and address the difference in reliability and efficiency?
Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:40 pm

Addicted
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 816
Location: Belgium
 
Addicted
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 816
Location: Belgium
Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:40 pm linkquote
Have you tried Google and/or Wikipedia???
Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:12 pm

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41214
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41214
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:12 pm linkquote
YaYaDave wrote:
So could you give a few examples of these different belts and address the difference in reliability and efficiency?
V-belt in a CVT - the sides are continually sliding across the metal of the variator/clutch pulleys. This wears the belt down fairly quickly, in a matter of a hundred hours or so.

Serpentine timing belts just have the teeth engaging with very little friction even on those tooth surfaces, and they are often steel reinforced.. They last for a thousand hours or so. Same with final drive belts in HDs etc.

As above, a little googling might help here...
Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:25 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 22098
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 22098
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:25 pm linkquote
sbaert wrote:
But the Burgman uses a CVT, and yes I was aware about the toothed aspect.
WTF does a burgman have anything to do with the comparison between the MP3 and the Kymco 3 wheeler?
Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:47 pm

Hooked
2020 Liberty 150, 2020 MP3-500
Joined: 06 Oct 2020
Posts: 436
Location: Reno
 
Hooked
2020 Liberty 150, 2020 MP3-500
Joined: 06 Oct 2020
Posts: 436
Location: Reno
Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:47 pm linkquote
The exposed toothed belt is the final drive, the cvt is enclosed, swing arm, motor bolted to the frame, mounted further forward
The steering angle can be a bit tighter before the shakes set in

One of the limits of the scooter wheel/motor/transmission as unit design is as the motor gets bigger the weight bias moves further back or the unit gets longer

The extra weight of the CV3 is in spite of no tilt lock

Here's the parts fiche
https://www.bike-parts-kymco.uk/kymco-motorcycle/550-SCOOTER/CV3/CV3_550_4T_EURO_5/VARIATOR/246/33/0/246
Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:38 pm

Addicted
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 816
Location: Belgium
 
Addicted
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 816
Location: Belgium
Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:38 pm linkquote
old as dirt wrote:
WTF does a burgman have anything to do with the comparison between the MP3 and the Kymco 3 wheeler?
Read post #2. Because somebody raised a concern about belt durability.
Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:34 pm

Member
MP3 500 HPE 2019
Joined: 28 Jun 2022
Posts: 39

 
Member
MP3 500 HPE 2019
Joined: 28 Jun 2022
Posts: 39

Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:34 pm linkquote
jimc wrote:
V-belt in a CVT - the sides are continually sliding across the metal of the variator/clutch pulleys. This wears the belt down fairly quickly, in a matter of a hundred hours or so.

Serpentine timing belts just have the teeth engaging with very little friction even on those tooth surfaces, and they are often steel reinforced.. They last for a thousand hours or so. Same with final drive belts in HDs etc.

As above, a little googling might help here...
Well thank you for that simple explanation, every day is a learning day, I was under the impression a belt was a belt
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