Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:11 pm

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Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:11 pm linkquote
Has anyone used a Lithiem battery on a 50cc, I'm tired of buying lead acid batteries. My ET isn't ridden much, sits for long periods in storage. Even on batt tender they readily fail. Thanks for any info.

Cheers
Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:59 am

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Joined: 28 Jan 2021
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Location: England
 
Member
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Posts: 44
Location: England
Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:59 am linkquote
I did look at this for an Elettrica (which still has a 12v battery to run the instruments and to power up the bike).

A few things I came across:

Lead acid loses about 4% a week, and if it drops below 50% - they start degrading. So a 6ah battery only had 3ah that are usable.

Lithium barely uses anything while resting. You can use almost 100% of a lithium battery, so be careful because most of the lithium batteries available say "6ah equivalent", when they're actually a much much smaller capacity! Most companies try to hide the real size of each lithium battery.

The other thing is that lithium can have problems if it's overcharged. When people charge lead acid and lithium batteries, they usually buy different chargers. The main sticking point for me was that the bike charging system will not know that it's a lithium battery - so will the lifespan be less if it's always being charged wrong?
Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:13 am

Molto Verboso
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
Joined: 31 Jul 2014
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI
 
Molto Verboso
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:13 am linkquote
I have one in my Aprilia Sportcity 50cc. Definitely get a Li battery charger for proper charging.

I've had no worries. The only caveat - which was pointed out to me - is sub zero temps.
Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:16 pm

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Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:16 pm linkquote
Thanks for the input. Still on the fence

Did read a post on application to the ET50 - was hoping poster would chime in.

Me too, how does the charging system tell if it's a Lithium or lead acid?
Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:59 pm

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2005 ET2
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Location: Washington DC
 
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2005 ET2
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Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:59 pm linkquote
Highly recommending trying AGM (absorbed glass mat) batteries. Much better than lead acid but not as amazing as lithium ion. For my motorcycle and vespas, I've purchased a brand called MotoBatt. I'm not an expert on Lithium Ion batteries but I believe normal charging systems may overcharge one of those. I bought this model for my 2004 and 2005 ET50s, MBTX4U. Hope this helps.
Tue Sep 06, 2022 5:20 am

Molto Verboso
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
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Molto Verboso
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Tue Sep 06, 2022 5:20 am linkquote
DCet2 wrote:
Highly recommending trying AGM (absorbed glass mat) batteries. Much better than lead acid but not as amazing as lithium ion. For my motorcycle and vespas, I've purchased a brand called MotoBatt. I'm not an expert on Lithium Ion batteries but I believe normal charging systems may overcharge one of those. I bought this model for my 2004 and 2005 ET50s, MBTX4U. Hope this helps.
My lithium in my ZNEN 150 was from Motobatt. I really liked it.

From what I've heard the Li batteries don't like the pulse charging that standard battery chargers use. But I've read a lot of differing opinions. I did buy a Li specific charger.
Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:27 am

Member
Vespa C38 - S50 4T Super and SH150
Joined: 22 Sep 2018
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Location: Netherlands
 
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Vespa C38 - S50 4T Super and SH150
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Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:27 am linkquote
From what I can gather, many Lithium batteries have built in BMS (Battery Management System circuit). They can use anything from 12-16 volts and safely put correct amount of energy into the cells. No need for specific wall charger. The charging system in your bike is not Lithium specific. That same BMS controls the output and prevents the batteries from being discharged too much.

Different brands will have different BMS, or none at all, so you can expect different results from different brands of Lithium batteries.
Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:45 pm

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Wed Sep 07, 2022 6:45 pm linkquote
Kudos for input all. Decided to go with the MBTX4U, will
give it a try. Again, thanks all. Happy rides!



Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:32 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8766
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
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Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:32 pm linkquote
My answer to your question would be, why? What is the lead acid not doing for a third of the cost of lithium?
Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:21 pm

Addicted
Vespa S
Joined: 21 Dec 2010
Posts: 838
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
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Location: Toronto, Canada
Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:21 pm linkquote
WEB-Tech wrote:
My answer to your question would be, why? What is the lead acid not doing for a third of the cost of lithium?
For starters, as someone already mentioned, it's maintaining charge for as long.
Secondly, it's not saving several pounds, which is a nice bonus on a 50cc.
Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:43 am

Molto Verboso
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
Joined: 31 Jul 2014
Posts: 1570
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
 
Molto Verboso
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
Joined: 31 Jul 2014
Posts: 1570
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:43 am linkquote
WEB-Tech wrote:
My answer to your question would be, why? What is the lead acid not doing for a third of the cost of lithium?
It sure fixed all my starting problems.
Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:05 am

Addicted
Vespa S
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Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:05 am linkquote
Good point too. They typically have more voltage and cold cranking amps.
Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:14 am

Hooked
Vespa ET4 125cc , Baotian 70cc rat scooter
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 428
Location: Wales
 
Hooked
Vespa ET4 125cc , Baotian 70cc rat scooter
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Posts: 428
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Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:14 am linkquote
My Vespa ET4 125 I just bought back from someone who moved to Bulgaria has a random flat lithium battery in it which I charged and now starts scooter. We will see how it performs on the road. Don't think it's meant for a 125 but we will see.



Sun Sep 11, 2022 12:36 pm

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Sun Sep 11, 2022 12:36 pm linkquote
semoir wrote:
Kudos for input all. Decided to go with the MBTX4U, will
give it a try. Again, thanks all. Happy rides!
Not a hard decision after all. Tks all, ride safe 👍!

Last edited by semoir on Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:15 am

Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold) Now Honda Zoomer X
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 3800
Location: Kingdom of Lanna
 
Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold) Now Honda Zoomer X
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Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:15 am linkquote
semoir wrote:
Me too, how does the charging system tell if it's a Lithium or lead acid?
With my RC Mini charger, you have to tell it.





But I use it to charge batteries on motorbikes.
Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:47 am

Molto Verboso
1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
Joined: 31 Jul 2014
Posts: 1570
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
 
Molto Verboso
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Joined: 31 Jul 2014
Posts: 1570
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Wed Sep 14, 2022 6:47 am linkquote
semoir wrote:
Not a hard decision after all. Tks all, ride safe 👍!
Be careful out there, friends. According to CNET your odds of suffering a Li battery fire are about 1 in 10,000,000. That's staggering.

Also, be careful about being trapped in a cave-in and suffocating to death, because your odds of that happening - statistically - are 1 in 152,822.

Honestly, I think that's a much more serious concern.
Fri Sep 16, 2022 8:49 am

Hooked
ET2 ZAPC 1600
Joined: 21 May 2022
Posts: 258
Location: UK
 
Hooked
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Fri Sep 16, 2022 8:49 am linkquote
semoir wrote:
Not a hard decision after all. Tks all, ride safe 👍!
Having burned my arm earlier in the year (and experiencing the pain involved), I'd rather not set fire to my arse (or vespa).

🙈
Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:31 pm

Member
Joined: 14 Jun 2013
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Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:31 pm linkquote
seamus26 wrote:
Be careful out there, friends. According to CNET your odds of suffering a Li battery fire are about 1 in 10,000,000. That's staggering.

Also, be careful about being trapped in a cave-in and suffocating to death, because your odds of that happening - statistically - are 1 in 152,822.

Honestly, I think that's a much more serious concern.
No spelunker here, just don't want one of these* between my legs 😳 at a any odds! Pretty good thread** on the Ducati site.

MotoBat brand is a first, we'll see. Cheers!

https://www.ducati.ms/threads/lithum-batterys.744182/
Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:43 am

Member
21 Racing 60s 95 Turbo RK
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Posts: 38
Location: UMD
 
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21 Racing 60s 95 Turbo RK
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Posts: 38
Location: UMD
Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:43 am linkquote
WEB-Tech wrote:
My answer to your question would be, why? What is the lead acid not doing for a third of the cost of lithium?
Last 10-11 years
Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:53 am

Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2021
Posts: 44
Location: England
 
Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2021
Posts: 44
Location: England
Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:53 am linkquote
WEB-Tech wrote:
My answer to your question would be, why? What is the lead acid not doing for a third of the cost of lithium?
A few good benefits to lithium:

1) Doesn't self discharge when not in use - lead discharges at about 4% per week.

2) Happy with long term storage. Lead starts to degrade at under 50% charge - so should be trickle charged over Winter or it doesn't tend to last.

Yesterday, I found an old iPad that I hadn't used in 5 years. Plugged it in and it turned on straight away. By contrast, I left a car sat for a single winter and the lead battery was scrap after the 3-4 months.

Lead is dirt cheap and is great for a daily driven / ridden vehicle - but most Vespas aren't run all year round.
Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:17 am

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41431
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
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Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:17 am linkquote
The temperature range is not good - they can't be charged below 5C without sustaining some damage, and below 0C is a complete no-no. Some have built-in heaters - but you have to ensure they get continuously maintained during cold spells when not in use.
Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:34 am

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Vespa S
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Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:34 am linkquote
Louiesdad wrote:
Last 10-11 years
Unfortunately I had a lithium battery from a lesser known brand completely fail on me in its first season, two nights ago. I got about 3,000 km out of it. It was actually sent to me to make a review on so... boy oh boy this is going to be an interesting review lol

So far an old, neglected, and abused (by the previous owner) Antigravity battery is still kicking just fine though, so even though they did not sponsor me, if I had to recommend one brand over the others, that's where I would put my money.
Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:10 am

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21 Racing 60s 95 Turbo RK
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Posts: 38
Location: UMD
 
Member
21 Racing 60s 95 Turbo RK
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Posts: 38
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Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:10 am linkquote
Knockoffs of anything seem to fail real fast, just stick with brand names products.
Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:39 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, Primavera, some pushbikes
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 8388
Location: Hermit Kingdom
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, Primavera, some pushbikes
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 8388
Location: Hermit Kingdom
Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:39 pm linkquote
Louiesdad wrote:
Knockoffs of anything seem to fail real fast, just stick with brand names products.
Such as?
Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:53 pm

Hooked
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: 28 Sep 2019
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Location: NYC
 
Hooked
GTS 300 hpe
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Location: NYC
Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:53 pm linkquote
znomit wrote:
Such as?
Featherweight brand batteries seem of good quality.
Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:21 pm

Member
21 Racing 60s 95 Turbo RK
Joined: 29 Aug 2022
Posts: 38
Location: UMD
 
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21 Racing 60s 95 Turbo RK
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Sun Sep 25, 2022 12:21 pm linkquote
Noco
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