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Well the title says it all. Got my first, a 78' P200e that's been a love hate non-stop but ultimately love, found a 63' All State Cruisaire VNB that ran & rode...had to snag it.

So for the sake of learning I figured I'd start a thread. First impression, gorgeous, not slow, worst suspension in front ever created & 8" wheels are both endearing and terrifying lol.

Scoot came with a handwritten note that said was 125, now 150cc 3 port. I can see it's a Piaggio 125 head but not sure on cylinder.

Other than general tuning, first order of business is the front bouncy clanking bottoming front suspension. Here to learn all the things about the bike, best front suspension mods, engine, pipe, whatever. Here's some pics...
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Was this one for sale as all original? I was out in Cody Wyoming and saw a black All state for sale as all original. It's definitely wasn't original from pictures and paint color. Also ID tags had it as a 1963, however seller listed as a 1964?
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Not sure on that, didn't come from that area but yeah, they only made em in red so mines been repainted.
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Always liked glossy black on the old curvy scoots.

Good luck on sorting the front shock/suspension.
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What? You don't like it when the allstate tries to kill you anytime you apply the front brake? I bought a seviceable real Vespa VNB fork and rebuilt it. MUCH better now.

The scooter giveth and the scooter taketh away
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Congrats man!!!
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garncarz wrote:
What? You don't like it when the allstate tries to kill you anytime you apply the front brake? I bought a seviceable real Vespa VNB fork and rebuilt it. MUCH better now.

The scooter giveth and the scooter taketh away
Rule #1...never use the front brake! Hahaha. That thread is what I needed! Thx will read up!
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well... somebody has up and done *something* with the front end. so best to have a look see into that.

if the cylinder shroud is off for photo purposes, cool. if not you need one. but I'm guessing you already knew that.

those tires look old AF, get those sorted straight away.

good looking bike!
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HMC_MT wrote:
Not sure on that, didn't come from that area but yeah, they only made em in red so mines been repainted.
This one is in Hill City South Dakota.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2305988066215903/
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Christopher_55934 wrote:
This one is in Hill City South Dakota.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2305988066215903/
that's the same bike, yo
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garncarz wrote:
What? You don't like it when the allstate tries to kill you anytime you apply the front brake?
I saw this recently and thought it was pretty amusing.

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A steering dampner! Wow.

That's a first.
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greasy125 wrote:
that's the same bike, yo
Yeah it is the same bike and I do have the cyl shroud. I took it off in hopes of identifying the top end as it's 150cc now. I can see the head is Piaggio 125 but not sure on the jug/piston. For knowledge sake what's the actual functional purpose of the head shroud?

Not sure what the PO did with the front end except the shock is obviously swapped. It definitely takes the cake for worse front suspension I've experienced, and I've had a ton of vintage bikes lol. Borderline unrideable. Just gotta figure out what exactly to do. Tires, yes, plenty of other stuff, yes too. At some point it'll make a great second Vespa though next to my P200e.

Side note I'm reading plenty of people are opposed to a 10" wheel swap. Is that a purist thing or more of a function thing??
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Birdsnest wrote:
A steering dampner! Wow.

That's a first.
the spring also appears to welded together, or possibly to the retainer at the bottom?

that's a big ol' bag of "no thanks" from me.
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HMC_MT wrote:
Yeah it is the same bike and I do have the cyl shroud. I took it off in hopes of identifying the top end as it's 150cc now. I can see the head is Piaggio 125 but not sure on the jug/piston. For knowledge sake what's the actual functional purpose of the head shroud?

Not sure what the PO did with the front end except the shock is obviously swapped. It definitely takes the cake for worse front suspension I've experienced, and I've had a ton of vintage bikes lol. Borderline unrideable. Just gotta figure out what exactly to do. Tires, yes, plenty of other stuff, yes too. At some point it'll make a great second Vespa though next to my P200e.

Side note I'm reading plenty of people are opposed to a 10" wheel swap. Is that a purist thing or more of a function thing??
the shroud is part of the cooling system, it keeps the air put off by the fan on and circulating around the cylinder.

if it's an Allstate, even though it's been painted, it's about originality. they only made so many, and they frequently get farmer bodged or just tossed.

to me, it about having something different to ride. handles totally different, rides different, different mindset when riding that vs something 10" or a hotrodded out.

besides, they just look right on 8's

but yeah, I'd take care of the shock situation pronto. that's no bueno. thankfully there's correct fixes and parts available to correct any such problem.
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Any recommendations for front end remedies?
greasy125 wrote:
the shroud is part of the cooling system, it keeps the air put off by the fan on and circulating around the cylinder.

if it's an Allstate, even though it's been painted, it's about originality. they only made so many, and they frequently get farmer bodged or just tossed.

to me, it about having something different to ride. handles totally different, rides different, different mindset when riding that vs something 10" or a hotrodded out.

besides, they just look right on 8's

but yeah, I'd take care of the shock situation pronto. that's no bueno. thankfully there's correct fixes and parts available to correct any such problem.
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greasy125 wrote:
the shroud is part of the cooling system, it keeps the air put off by the fan on and circulating around the cylinder.

if it's an Allstate, even though it's been painted, it's about originality. they only made so many, and they frequently get farmer bodged or just tossed.

to me, it about having something different to ride. handles totally different, rides different, different mindset when riding that vs something 10" or a hotrodded out.

besides, they just look right on 8's

but yeah, I'd take care of the shock situation pronto. that's no bueno. thankfully there's correct fixes and parts available to correct any such problem.
As someone who originally went with a 10" conversion and is now going back to 8" wheels, I do agree. They just look right on 8's
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HMC_MT wrote:
Any recommendations for front end remedies?
New swingarm and a shock bracket to convert the front end to be able to run the dampener
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HMC_MT wrote:
Any recommendations for front end remedies?
stock vespa fork with spring and dampener. Bajaj equivalent. or the parts to transform your Allstate fork into a vespa style one.
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greasy125 wrote:
stock vespa fork with spring and dampener. Bajaj equivalent. or the parts to transform your Allstate fork into a vespa style one.
Why hasn't someone designed a coil over shock setup to replace factory spring?
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Okay so did some digging and what I've learned is apparently the All Sates didn't have the dampener. Saw the Bajaj fork from Scooter West but it's also 350 bucks. I haven't pulled the shock off but maybe it's just blown. Everything that is there seems to be working correctly but it's soooo spongy and bouncy. Maybe even just a new shock would get me on the road until a more intensive upgrade could happen but is there even an option for an All State without the dampener and spring?
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that is an answer a lot of folks go for

Stoffi Spring Installed on 1963 Allstate

Stoffi spring?
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HMC_MT wrote:
Okay so did some digging and what I've learned is apparently the All Sates didn't have the dampener. Saw the Bajaj fork from Scooter West but it's also 350 bucks. I haven't pulled the shock off but maybe it's just blown. Everything that is there seems to be working correctly but it's soooo spongy and bouncy. Maybe even just a new shock would get me on the road until a more intensive upgrade could happen but is there even an option for an All State without the dampener and spring?
changing that shock is going to do next to nothing.

350 for that fork, find a used fork and rebuild it, or collect the pieces to convert yours over are the easiest, cheapest, known options. every thing from there would be full custom.
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Christopher_55934 wrote:
Why hasn't someone designed a coil over shock setup to replace factory spring?
look at the suspension as a whole. basically it's a lever. so you have a fixed pivot point- the fork down tube. then you have a spring that's attached to the lever so it doesn't feel like a coal cart, then you have a dampener to help control the spring so you don't have a pogo stick.

so with that in mind, you need to have those two things to control the lever, and the design of the swingarm dictates that.

now look at the picture above. what exactly is that spring and dampener accomplishing? it's too close to the pivot to be effective and that's why it rides like shit.

the answer would probably be some type of bracket that welds to the down extending further back toward the center line of the axle and then a bracket that attaches to the swing arm (probably bolted) that would utilize a small coil over double eye ended shock, probably something off of a small pit bike or atv. but then the question is clearance. will it foul the fender or the tire.

if I had an Allstate and was bored, and didn't want to throw the dosh or the time in looking for the parts I'd probably do something like that just for the S&G's
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You need these two parts, plus a front shock and a few other bits to make the conversion to the fork you already have. Both are out of stock at Mercato, but they could order for you from SIP. The little bracket gets welded to your existing fork and I made mine myself which was pretty easy, but you will need that longer link arm to do it right.
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Came to the conclusion my best solution is a new fork. Worth the money and probably the simplest solution. Scooter West has one for 350 but they can be had for much cheaper on eBay.
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I suggest that you post up links to the fork you have in mind for comments to avoid potential problems. Also another member seeing this may offer you a suitable Vespa fork for similar money which likely would be your best bet.
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The shock that's currently on there has already been damaged from the suspension cycling. I wouldn't ride around on the scooter until you get that all sorted. You wouldn't want the eyelet on the bottom of the shock to snap off while you're either braking hard or hitting a pothole.
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whodatschrome wrote:
The shock that's currently on there has already been damaged from the suspension cycling. I wouldn't ride around on the scooter until you get that all sorted. You wouldn't want the eyelet on the bottom of the shock to snap off while you're either braking hard or hitting a pothole.
Absolutely agree. The extent of my "riding" so far has been a test ride around my block which was freshly paved and no front brake. I'll keep it that way until the front end is sorted. It'll be worth the wait. I met a local with a VNB and it was excellent, so I have something to look forward to. Had the Pinasco 177 kit too. Swoon.
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Here's the super sweet modification the previous owner made to make a shock work that was never gonna work anyway lol.
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Thank you, I REALLY wanted to see how that thing was hooked up on top at that unusual angle.
Facepalm emoticon Nice try PO Clap emoticon, but no cigar.
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V oodoo wrote:
Thank you, I REALLY wanted to see how that thing was hooked up on top at that unusual angle.
Facepalm emoticon Nice try PO Clap emoticon, but no cigar.
I don't love the idea of an Indian fork. Hoping to get an original with upgraded spring but ultimately just wanna ride. I'm in Montana so we only have another month mayyybe 2 of riding season.
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V oodoo wrote:
Thank you, I REALLY wanted to see how that thing was hooked up on top at that unusual angle.
Facepalm emoticon Nice try PO Clap emoticon, but no cigar.
I just *knew* it had to be something like that.

the "self clearanced" shock body is a nice touch though!
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fwiw, the scooter west fork is probably better than some rando eBay Indian eBay fork. they've been in the game a long time and have established relationships with vendors and generally source the best quality they can.

$100 in your pocket is just as good as in mine, so I get it.

all that being said, remember that it is international shipping so you could be stuck in customs and/or have import duties. and shipping from India on that timeline is wildly optimistic.

I'd post up a wanted ad here and on scootnet2 or maybe a member will pipe up that they've got the parts.

either way, replace your steering bearings and brake cable while you're there.
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greasy125 wrote:
fwiw, the scooter west fork is probably better than some rando eBay Indian eBay fork. they've been in the game a long time and have established relationships with vendors and generally source the best quality they can.

$100 in your pocket is just as good as in mine, so I get it.

all that being said, remember that it is international shipping so you could be stuck in customs and/or have import duties. and shipping from India on that timeline is wildly optimistic.

I'd post up a wanted ad here and on scootnet2 or maybe a member will pipe up that they've got the parts.

either way, replace your steering bearings and brake cable while you're there.
That's the plan man, I appreciate the feedback.

I may have a line on an original All State fork & I'd just add a Stoffi spring. Definitely replace everything in that vicinity including adding a speedo.
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I have an original Allstate fork and the stoffi spring. I'm sure we can
work something out if you are interested in going that route.
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garncarz wrote:
I have an original Allstate fork and the stoffi spring. I'm sure we can
work something out if you are interested in going that route.
Rad. Shot you a message!
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HMC_MT wrote:
Rad. Shot you a message!
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i did a stoffi spring on my 64 allstate and it helped so much!
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