Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:35 pm

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Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:35 pm linkquote
(Now that I've Ctrl+Z'd my bamboozlement, let's start fresh)

I'm Phil. I'm new to Vespas but not new to riding or "routine maintenance level" wrenching. Things in my ideal scooter would be:

- Vintage with character
- Shifts (see above)
- Will do 50 mph and hills with a passenger. Faster is also fine.
- All (mostly? If "all" is impossible) authentic parts
- A little TLC to get going is ok but full engine rebuild is a no-go
- Parts still available-ish

I really like the GL, Sprint Veloce and the Rally but I don't know at all how hard they are to find. I love the look of the VBB but performance wise I'm a little worried of it being too underpowered. I'm not looking for highway touring but I am looking for some zip.

Thank you in advance, scooter folks!
Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:42 pm

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
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Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:42 pm linkquote
Welcome Phil! Where are you?

https://modernvespa.com/forum/post2568884#2568884

Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:57 pm

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Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:57 pm linkquote
Thanks! I'm down in SoCal.
Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:00 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
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Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
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Location: northern New York
Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:00 am linkquote
I started out by buying a running VBB that needed work. I found myself wanting to put it in 10" wheels kit the engine and things like that to make it more of a road bike…not that it couldn't be, but it seemed like a longer path forward and probably beyond my current skill set.

I ended up picking up a P200e and a Stella. More straightforward bikes for beginners and more likely to meet your riding needs even in stock form. Also easier to find. As I had a P series in the 80's, these bikes have enough vintage cred for me, though maybe not for others. I really like my vbb, but having a P series will allow me to let the vbb be a vbb, rather than trying to make it into something it's not.

Hope that makes sense.
Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:27 am

Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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Fri Sep 09, 2022 6:27 am linkquote
If you're wanting to go 50mph up hills with a passenger then you'll want at least a 200cc engine...possibly a 210.
Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:26 am

Hooked
Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, Stock 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
Joined: 22 Jun 2022
Posts: 397
Location: Finland
 
Hooked
Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, Stock 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
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Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:26 am linkquote
Just pick a scoot that you like and go for it. The engine side can be built to exactly what you want. A nice engine can even be fitted on the early wideframe models, but it will take some extra work compared to largeframes.

If you want to go with a passenger, skip the smallframes.
Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:36 pm

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Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:36 pm linkquote
orwell84 wrote:
I started out by buying a running VBB that needed work. I found myself wanting to put it in 10" wheels kit the engine and things like that to make it more of a road bike…not that it couldn't be, but it seemed like a longer path forward and probably beyond my current skill set.

I ended up picking up a P200e and a Stella. More straightforward bikes for beginners and more likely to meet your riding needs even in stock form. Also easier to find. As I had a P series in the 80's, these bikes have enough vintage cred for me, though maybe not for others. I really like my vbb, but having a P series will allow me to let the vbb be a vbb, rather than trying to make it into something it's not.

Hope that makes sense.
Makes total sense. I've already thought about eventually having two scooters, something classic that is more of a project and I don't care how fast it is (or if it's in pieces at any given time), just let it be what it is. Then something a little more modern and powerful for actually riding a few times a week with my wife or kids. I think I dove in a little too quickly and just need to take time to find the right one - whether the "project" or the "daily" comes first I guess we'll see!
Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:44 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11825
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11825
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:44 pm linkquote
you always need more than one, because one is always broken down or in pieces or your waiting for parts.

then, one becomes two, two begets a project, three turns into five because you bought two parts bikes to finish the project, five comes with the addition of a parts horde that is many boxes and a spare frame and fork and probably some empty cases-- almost just enough to put together *another* project...

my advice is always start with a running riding bike that you can cruise around on. and no matter how much you want to DO NOT IMMEDIATELY BLOW IT APART FOR A RESTO OR PAINT. enjoy it. ride it. decide on what you want to modify. buy another one to tinker with. then after a year, you should have the "tinker project" up and running; you may take apart the 1st bike and do with it as you please.

take your time, the right bike will come along!
Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:57 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
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Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:57 pm linkquote
greasy125 wrote:
you always need more than one, because one is always broken down or in pieces or your waiting for parts.

then, one becomes two, two begets a project, three turns into five because you bought two parts bikes to finish the project, five comes with the addition of a parts horde that is many boxes and a spare frame and fork and probably some empty cases-- almost just enough to put together *another* project...

my advice is always start with a running riding bike that you can cruise around on. and no matter how much you want to DO NOT IMMEDIATELY BLOW IT APART FOR A RESTO OR PAINT. enjoy it. ride it. decide on what you want to modify. buy another one to tinker with. then after a year, you should have the "tinker project" up and running; you may take apart the 1st bike and do with it as you please.

take your time, the right bike will come along!
solid advice from sir greasy - I bought the non-running Lambretta as a first bike - horrible choice. I almost gave up the hobby before I got started.
Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:15 pm

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Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:15 pm linkquote
Thanks for the advice guys. Makes a lot of sense. I initially didn't care if it was running or not, thinking I could get it going with some wd-40 and fairy dust, but I'm also great at vastly over estimating my mechanical abilities

Picking up a working bike and slowly getting more familiar with it before going full on project mode makes a lot of sense. I will abide by this advice! My real problem stems from having sold my last motorcycle about 6 months ago and not yet replaced it with anything. Im getting the shakes.
Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:27 pm

Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 1101
Location: Philadelphia
 
Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 1101
Location: Philadelphia
Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:27 pm linkquote
brok3nr0b0t wrote:
Thanks for the advice guys. Makes a lot of sense. I initially didn't care if it was running or not, thinking I could get it going with some wd-40 and fairy dust, but I'm also great at vastly over estimating my mechanical abilities

Picking up a working bike and slowly getting more familiar with it before going full on project mode makes a lot of sense. I will abide by this advice! My real problem stems from having sold my last motorcycle about 6 months ago and not yet replaced it with anything. Im getting the shakes.
You'll hone those mechanical abilities with these old bastards! They're not difficult to work on honestly. For my first I got a 1958 Allstate which is essentially a Vespa VNA. I like the round tail so much. I swapped motors but didn't build this motor. I was too scared to try. I have 2 spare motors though so this winter I'll practice building one. Also found out my frame was twisted so bought another from GeekLion on here. Worked out well. It came with sea foam green paint that looked like it was brushed on and was real tough paint. Stripped the whole thing down, it's much easier the second time as it turns out [img][/img] long story short. You got this. Once you get one that is!
Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:52 pm

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Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:52 pm linkquote
Thanks, Friday!

Saw this that might be an option. Appears all original. Any thoughts?

https://scootnet2.net/index.php?do=showone&id=837
Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:03 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 5149
Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 5149
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:03 pm linkquote
That would be an excellent scoot to start out on. However, it may (will) need some work in the future. The price, while not DOD, is not terrible either if it's in good nick.
Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:05 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:05 pm linkquote
Having said all that, I would want to go for the Sprint Voodoo put up, lovely scoot.
Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:21 pm

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
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Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:21 pm linkquote
If I has the cheese, I gets me both!
a wise man once wrote:
you always need more than one, because one is always broken down or in pieces or your waiting for parts.
Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:32 pm

Molto Verboso
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 1036
Location: Los Angeles
 
Molto Verboso
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Location: Los Angeles
Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:32 pm linkquote
brok3nr0b0t wrote:
(Now that I've Ctrl+Z'd my bamboozlement, let's start fresh)

I'm Phil. I'm new to Vespas but not new to riding or "routine maintenance level" wrenching. Things in my ideal scooter would be:

- Vintage with character
- Shifts (see above)
- Will do 50 mph and hills with a passenger. Faster is also fine.
- All (mostly? If "all" is impossible) authentic parts
- A little TLC to get going is ok but full engine rebuild is a no-go
- Parts still available-ish

I really like the GL, Sprint Veloce and the Rally but I don't know at all how hard they are to find. I love the look of the VBB but performance wise I'm a little worried of it being too underpowered. I'm not looking for highway touring but I am looking for some zip.

Thank you in advance, scooter folks!
Allow me to blaspheme here a bit:

For what you would pay for a solid vintage, hill-climbing daily rider you could get a MV.
The GTV is a twisty, but for what you would pay for a solid Rally (the only stock bike on your list that will take two up hills) you'll have a reliable scoot that looks not so bad, IMO.

The other bikes on your list are 6 or so hp. With a bolt-on kit you'd have much more, but you'll be getting into a highly-technical subject, that will require full knowledge of every aspect that a kit influences -- basically the entire bike.
Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:58 pm

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Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:58 pm linkquote
Tierney wrote:
Having said all that, I would want to go for the Sprint Voodoo put up, lovely scoot.
Nice, thanks. I'm talking with Voodoo about that sprint as well!
Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:00 pm

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Fri Sep 09, 2022 5:00 pm linkquote
Ray8 wrote:
Allow me to blaspheme here a bit:

For what you would pay for a solid vintage, hill-climbing daily rider you could get a MV.
The GTV is a twisty, but for what you would pay for a solid Rally (the only stock bike on your list that will take two up hills) you'll have a reliable scoot that looks not so bad, IMO.

The other bikes on your list are 6 or so hp. With a bolt-on kit you'd have much more, but you'll be getting into a highly-technical subject, that will require full knowledge of every aspect that a kit influences -- basically the entire bike.
Thanks Ray. All good info. Yeah I've seen the bolt on kits that give you a power bump and something I'd consider for sure. It sounds like my ideal scooter is two scooters so I just have to make some decisions.
Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:21 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:21 am linkquote
Many on here have a nice old scoot (or several) and a more modern motorcycle, scoot or at least something that's running. So if you can swing it, 2 scoots is not a bad Idea.
Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:25 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 5149
Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:25 am linkquote
V oodoo wrote:
If I has the cheese, I gets me both!
But it would hurt your reputation as an owner of a herd of rats - too nice a scoot for you! I kid, I kid, it is an eye turner and I would hope it runs as good as it looks.
Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:23 am

Addicted
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Location: Planet Earth
 
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Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:23 am linkquote
greasy125 wrote:
you always need more than one, because one is always broken down or in pieces or your waiting for parts.
I just spit my tea out in amusement at this; this is so bloody true it should be written into some sacred scooter text like the Ten Commandments of scooter law.
Sat Sep 10, 2022 7:07 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
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Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
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Sat Sep 10, 2022 7:07 am linkquote
Good advice about not pulling a scooter to bits. There is enough work to do just to get one into riding condition. Not technically difficult, but a lot of fiddly clips and bits that take some time to get the hang of. The first time replacing fuel and oil lines and reinstalling the gas tank took longer than expected, but after that becomes second nature.
Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 am

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Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:13 am linkquote
Still talking to Voodoo about the Sprint, but also saw this one on the for sale forum here. Anyone familiar with it?

[Portland, OR] 1974 vespa sprint veloce for sale - runs well
Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:19 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
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Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
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Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:19 am linkquote
I never considered a twist and go scooter, but if funds were not an issue, I would love to have a Royal Alloy 300 to jump on and ride while tinkering with my shifty scooters.
Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:32 am

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
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Ossessionato
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Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:32 am linkquote
Weighing in, cause.. well, why not.
Suspect OP is a little smitten with the 60's 70's style, and frankly, I don't blame him.

It's true, a P200 is the reliable 10-12hp model that would be simplest (assuming he's not looking for a modern twisty).

But… they lack the beauty and aura of the prior.

A cylinder kit and exhaust on an older model is the other option. More tinkering, it's true, but delivers on the j' ne sais qua of the whole scooter thing.

My advice: think of it like going to the prom. The hot girl is higher maintenance, and frankly, a little crazy. But once u get to the dance - everyone's gonna be looking. The other one is nice too. Just depends what u wanna put up with to get there.

🙂.
Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:14 am

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Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:14 am linkquote
orwell84 wrote:
I never considered a twist and go scooter, but if funds were not an issue, I would love to have a Royal Alloy 300 to jump on and ride while tinkering with my shifty scooters.
Those look cool as well! I was checking them out last night. I've never ridden a motorcycle you don't shift but, I could see the appeal.
Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:19 am

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Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:19 am linkquote
charlieman22 wrote:
Weighing in, cause.. well, why not.
Suspect OP is a little smitten with the 60's 70's style, and frankly, I don't blame him.

It's true, a P200 is the reliable 10-12hp model that would be simplest (assuming he's not looking for a modern twisty).

But… they lack the beauty and aura of the prior.

A cylinder kit and exhaust on an older model is the other option. More tinkering, it's true, but delivers on the j' ne sais qua of the whole scooter thing.

My advice: think of it like going to the prom. The hot girl is higher maintenance, and frankly, a little crazy. But once u get to the dance - everyone's gonna be looking. The other one is nice too. Just depends what u wanna put up with to get there.

🙂.
Ha, you nailed it! I'm not opposed to a P200 but I do especially like the aesthetics of the older models. I'm up for the challenge of tinkering with the older models. I've been looking for a project like this, and want to learn more about everything Vespa as I go. I just don't want to get in over my head right away so something at least running is a great idea.
Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:10 pm

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
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Molto Verboso
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Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:10 pm linkquote
I always underestimate how long projects will take even if they are tasks I have completed before. Also, life tends to get in the way. I only rip things apart if I'm not worried about when it will get done.
Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:24 pm

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 3257
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
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Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:24 pm linkquote
These things are sexy as hell, and for my money, the rounder the better.
The vespas are great too.

Kits and exhaust are not hard to do.
This crowd will advise the subtle details and make a few suggestions.

Upside is: you will know your scoot, and be able to service yourself - like many of us here.

Welcome aboard.
Sat Sep 10, 2022 3:32 pm

Addicted
1968 VBB150
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Sat Sep 10, 2022 3:32 pm linkquote
I am in the OC, and if you are up or down here anytime I would be happy to pull my examples out to review with you- I have a Bajaj (a "good" example of slightly dodgy) a 180ss which is a good example of a true classic, and a p200 which just my favorite 'jump on and go" scoot.

For perspective, 5 years ago I had zero scooters, now I have 6. Friend bought a bodge, I got it running, then the rest is history.
Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:25 pm

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Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:25 pm linkquote
I was in exactly the same boat as you, in about 2009. After searching for awhile, I scored my Rally 200 that I still have today. It was perfect for me, I commuted in San Francisco on it five days a week for years, and then shipped it to Australia with the rest of my stuff. Over the years I have done a lot of work on it, but it was in solid running condition when I got it. A Sprint from a trusted member of this forum would be a fantastic way to start off, IMO.
Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:34 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 11825
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Sat Sep 10, 2022 4:34 pm linkquote
I'd pick up one of those sprints and cruise it. not a whole bunch of heavy lifting to start off, just general scooter maintenance and the shenanigans that go with them. but you'd have a solid runner out of the gate.

down the line, not enuff giddy up for ya? just kit it or throw a P2 lump in there.

found a project bike with out a motor or a crappy one? throw your sprint motor in. or swappy-swap-swap and put the sprint motor back in the sprint and the P motor into the project. options abound!

but the key here is to get something that you can ride and enjoy. this will give to time to figure out where you want to go next. upgrade what you have? okay, how do I want to upgrade this? get a project? great, what project do I want? I didn't like P's to start but now I understand the appliance functionality of them and I'm kinda down to pick one up.

and you can do all that while you're still cruising around.
Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:11 pm

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
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Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:11 pm linkquote
I would agree and want to know who's gonna step up and help figure out how to get a scooter from Portland, or worse, Seattle down where it's wanted?

The Portland bike looks pretty nice in that green(original with those miles?), like a new version of my old green Sprint. It even looks to be a Euro version like mine, with the big headlight and speedo in KM!

American market sealed beam headlite
Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:44 pm

Addicted
1968 VBB150
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Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:44 pm linkquote
There is a guy who GL and I have used and he makes weekly runs from Seattle to San Diego. Good prices and FAST
Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:45 pm

Addicted
1968 VBB150
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Sat Sep 10, 2022 5:45 pm linkquote
Also, that blue sprint is ROCKIN
Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:37 pm

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Sat Sep 10, 2022 8:37 pm linkquote
V oodoo wrote:
I would agree and want to know who's gonna step up and help figure out how to get a scooter from Portland, or worse, Seattle down where it's wanted?
Any update on the blue Sprint, Voodoo? I haven't reached out to the OP of the green one but I was thinking about it. I'd be interested in either!
Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:03 pm

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'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
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Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:03 pm linkquote
I am on the case awaiting a callback. PM me your number if you want.
Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:08 am

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Location: Planet Earth
Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:08 am linkquote
Choices for be depend on how deep my pockets are. Projects that are pre p range to me mean potentially a lot of expense depending on model, sourcing parts , if available etc which rapidly build up to significant costs. Changing ignition to modern 12v etc We all drove p ranges in the 80s as teenagers so nostalgia to some isn't always about earlier 60s models. The p is the most reliable scooter I've driven and no issues getting parts nor repair but ultimately they have all given me grief at some point, some cheaply sorted some not so . Getting a p to start off with is something good to see if you enjoy it get something older as suggested to tinker with.
Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:58 am

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2525

 
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2525

Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:58 am linkquote
Well I've had my taste of really bad luck and came out ahead only because I'm as stubborn as they come, saying that , if you're looking for a vintage you've come to the right place and I only wish I had known about this site before my purchase. If you want a vintage I would think your location would be to your advantage, I would definitely spend a bit more from a reputable builder/owner , then again any reputable owner knows what he has and won't sell. Good luck with your new lifestyle.
Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:29 am

Member
Still shopping…
Joined: 08 Sep 2022
Posts: 25
Location: SoCal
 
Member
Still shopping…
Joined: 08 Sep 2022
Posts: 25
Location: SoCal
Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:29 am linkquote
Really appreciating all the input guys! I'm of the mindset that anything I buy and "restore" (to the best of my ability anyway) will take a while to do. I'm not in a huge rush to have a pristine vintage daily rider in my garage. It's the journey, not the destination, man… plus we all know spending small fortunes over a long time is far less painful than all at once!

Speaking of P's, the guy selling the P on scootnet2.net got back to me. He says:

"The bike is in excellent running condition and great shape. It's all original and nothing needs to be fixed. The bike has never been down. I have owned the Vespa since 2014. I have a clear title in my name for the Vespa and I will also sell with bill of sale."

Would love if you guys and gals that know so much more than me could take a look at the pics and see if you can spot anything funky?















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