Modern Vespa

Speaking of protection . . . wish I could have found a clip of this.

Vanessa Kensington : Look, I know I'm being neurotic, but I can't shake off this suspicious feeling about that Italian secretary. You know, Miss Fagina. I don't want to sound paranoid, but I've had some bad relationships in the past, and I have been known to be jealous. I'm sorry.

Austin Powers : No, don't be sorry, baby. You're right to be suspicious. I shagged her.

Vanessa Kensington : What?

Austin Powers : I shagged her rotten, baby, yeah!

Vanessa Kensington : I don't believe you, Austin! I mean, she was repellant.

Austin Powers : Saucer of milk, table 2. Meow.

Vanessa Kensington : Well, did you use protection?

Austin Powers : Of course. I had my 9mm automatic.

Vanessa Kensington : You know I meant 'did you use a condom'?

Austin Powers : No. Only sailors use condoms, baby.

Vanessa Kensington : Not in the 90's, Austin.

Austin Powers : Well they should, those filthy beggars. They go from port to port.

Also hey there. Saw you're from Akron. Used to go there a lot!

Yup. Nothing is more pathetic than the old man who mistakenly thinks years of life experience trumps years of concentrated experience.

Because I started riding as a teenager, and was working in the motorcycle industry by 21, I was meeting new motorcyclists every day while still very young. I got spoken down to by people who thought their age meant they knew better all the time. I'm 34 now, I still get it.

In reality, more often than not, while I was still in my 20s I had already been riding for more years, further, in far worse conditions, on a way wider variety of motorcycles, and with way more hours of top notch training than most of these people. And based on what I saw of their bikes, if I were them, I would be focused more on my own riding than someone else's lol.

The riders who really did know more and were better riders than me usually had a very different approached. It wasn't really judgement. They would just gesture vaguely towards the right direction, and let me find my way. I had one particular ride with a retired female motorcycle racer that changed my view of motorcycling forever, and she never uttered a bad word or implication. That's what I try to do with the new riders that I meet now.

The worst part is that my girl gets this stupid pre-judgement all the time. As a woman in the construction industry people look at her and think she's the secretary, not realizing she's the mind responsible for estimating on $200 million dollar projects. People's egos are so fragile that they can't even imagine a scenario where someone might outwork and outachieve them in way less time.

I also started working in the industry at a young age. At 14 y/o I was pushing a broom and chief tire/tube changer in a small independent shop. By age 16 I was doing full mechanic duties. I had a great mentor who I still talk to regularly 46 years later. He taught me to be methodical and to work quickly but not at the cost of doing it right.

With the unsolicited advice... Last thing I want to hear is "Ok, boomer". And that would be a valid response under those circumstances.

Are you sure it was because of your age?

Experience is not the point but I get your way of thinking. The point is just being kind enough to pass on advise when it's obvious that you know better.
Safer = knowing better.

This is where you fell off the rails.
Or, should I say, OK Boomer....

lol obviously not always obviously, but more often then not. I was an information sponge (still am) but I was asking questions every single day back then.

People who well and truly know a lot about a subject typically don't need to speak down. If you're really well versed do you need to put someone down to make your point, or are you knowledgeable enough to just make it? If you know your stuff, you can simply demonstrate, illustrate, or ask something along the lines of "Have you considered (fill in the blank)?"

One of the most influential rides of my life, I was 22 years old, I had Vicki Gray, Motoress.com on the back of my Harley. Dropping her off somewhere after she dropped off her Ducati at the shop I worked at.

Vicki had decades on me, had raced at Assen before I ever sat on a bike, and to this day I'm not half the racer she is. I could tell she was steering my bike from the back seat. It made me rethink everything I thought about motorcycle handling, speed, and control. That's one way good riders quietly make new good riders. I bring this up to highlight the importance of taking a track day to all beginner to intermediate riders who think they know what they're doing, but haven't learned how to push beyond the skillset they need for their every day commute.

They say good leaders don't speak down and tell people what to do, good leaders make more good leaders. Well, maybe good riders don't speak down and tell people what to do, good riders just make more good riders. Vicki and other coaches and friends did that for me. Never a matter of "you are wrong, I am right, I am better than you" but always a matter of "here are the benefits of what I do" - there's a big difference.

That's awesome, and unfortunately I think you'll probably hear "Ok, boomer" because we all suck sometimes. The nice thing about motorcycling is it can be very humbling lol.

I live in Queens, NY and I see a lot of people riding scooters without helmet and gloves.
I have noticed a young guy who wears a full face helmet while riding a scooter that you stand on.

Also IMO a 3/4 or half helmet + full gear is no more safe than a full face helmet, shorts and T-shirt

Are you guys legally able to ride scooters without helmets there?

I like to think that in my Corazzo armored jacket and with my Buffalo Bills logo on the cowl that folks are so jealous that they want to emulate my obvious awesomeness.

Ahem.

I can only speak from my own experience.

When I picked up riding again fifteen years ago (after a 40-year layoff) I had a very low-speed crash that was entirely my fault. I went head-first into a curb wearing a 3/4 helmet that just barely protected my face. I wasn't wearing any other protective gear except some cloth-backed gloves which didn't protect me from a serious cut on the back of my hand. An ambulance took me to the ER. My wife got the dread call that started out, "First, I'm OK." My head was checked out, my hand was stitched up, and I was sent home.

I started seriously wearing complete gear.

Some months later I was riding along at about 35 mph when a distracted left-turner accelerated right into me as I crossed an intersection. This one was entirely not my fault. I came to 100 feet down the street (I Google mapped it). Every part of my body that had armor over it was massively bruised and the back of my helmet had a serious ding. My left foot was crushed (it still isn't OK fourteen years later).

But I survived.

I don't tell anyone else what to wear when they ride. But I do share my story when the topic comes up here.

Dressing for the crash important----but riding skills more important to avoid the crash! Many scooter in US are not skillfully ridden or even with proper license!

I couldn't find my favorite post from who I consider an MV god, Aviator47. Safety is the choices you make when you ride. Survival gear is only one of many safety choices you make when you ride.
My mother is 78 and has smoked since 12. My step father smoked and died at 64 from cancer and battled COPD for many years. I never smoked or have used alcohol since 1985 and I have heart disease. Life is a roll of the dice.

I spend a lot of time in New England where in certain areas there are no helmet laws. Anyone that is flying around on two wheels with no protective gear knows the risks……but I'd imagine the thought process is that the rewards outweigh the risks…….feeling the sun, the air, the exposure……..it's freeing.

I rode an ET4 for 15 years w/ a 3/4 helmet. I had a friend suggest to me that when I bought my 300 in March I should get a full face. That is what he uses on his motorcycle.

I tried…….I really did. I just can't. It's not enjoyable for me and I feel smothered…….so it's about comfort. I'll take the risk……I understand it all, and I am pretty sure everyone does.

Jurko, we all may not see eye to eye on this but this was a great thread you started, good responses from both camps

I think your heart is in the right place....but don't think you should really bring it up to people.
I ride KTM big bikes after having been a BMW guy for years.
I found my BMW cohorts ended up being embarrassingly self righteous about riding apparel.
I'm all for protective clothing, but it became more of a status thing than really caring about their fellow man's safety.....You just could not be wearing the 'correct gear' with those guys.
I would have had to sell my bike to afford the proper outfit.

(I think you always have to wear a helmet and gloves)

These days, I realize that every once in a while, I like to head out into the country and only wear a tee shirt.
Last week, I wore shorts.
It was heavenly.
It's a calculated risk, but I really enjoy it .
If it seems too risky to you, you really shouldn't be riding motorcycles....and that is perfectly fine.

I do object to this, cross. Riding in a t-shirt does seem too risky for me. You can do what you want. But please don't tell me I shouldn't be riding just because my risk tolerance is less than yours.

If you read my previous post, you can see that wearing gear likely saved my life. I accept the increased risk of riding and then do whatever I can to mitigate it - safe riding practices, good maintenance, gear, etc.

I'm not just thinking of myself, but also of the people who love me and depend on me.

I walk up, sun shield down in my full face helmet, armored jacket, riding boots and gloves (making Darth Vader noises) stare at them for a few seconds and then say "I find your lack of gear disturbing" and stride confidently away (still making Darth Vader noises).

Here in Texas, if you have taken the safety course you aren't required to wear a helmet.

In my very informal research over the past 3 weeks with the Vespa, I have noticed that anybody on a Harley does not wear a helmet. Sport/dirt bike riders do.

So far, I'm the only scooter I've seen! 100% of us wear a helmet, gloves, jeans, and boots.

I'm torn; I only ever used to ride with a helmet (full face), when I started out riding a scooter. I was both young and inexperienced. -And poor. The scooter was 49cc so only city streets in DC, but nothing much else. I have never fallen or gotten hit, thank goodness.

I think a nice in the middle way to respond when you want to shake people for not wearing gear is do the polite nod, tell them to drive carefully/be careful/be safe. End it there.

Now, I can't imagine going out without my jacket or on very hot days, a vest on. I never wear flip flops, but I'll cop to a boat shoe. I always wear a helmet, and a jacket or vest; usually wear the gloves unless I'm really hot and my hands are getting clammy, and in the fall/winter I've got heated armored gear.

My friend wears a full TRON suit no matter the weather, no matter the length of his ride. I can feel a bit of judgment at my not wearing Toreador Pants, but I lack both the income and the desire.

ALL THIS TO SAY:
People have the right to make poor decisions. Let them. You are not the arbiter of anyone's experience but your own.

Agreed! I always say, "if you're going to do something as crazy and potentially unsafe/hazardous as go very high speeds on two wheels with no frame around you, do it in the sanest and safest way you possibly can."

"It's my choice; and it's the choice of a new generation."

I did read your previous post and I am very sorry you had to go through that.
Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty much Toreador Pants....
I also ride some larger, powerful motorcycles and understand that you really have to protect yourself.....for everyone.
I live in an area where the driving IQ has gone way down over the years.
It's dangerous to the point of really rethinking commuting on a bike...especially a tiny Vespa.
I didn't mean to imply that if someone's risk threshold is lower, they shouldn't ride.....
I just hate having people say, "Well...you've either crashed or you're going to crash". "You need one of those self inflating airbag motorcycle suits". "You're an idiot if you ride". Yada yada.
Some people are really crippled by fear, and maybe they should rethink things.
Every once in a while, I really enjoy heading out to a less populated area and taking off the jacket. I understand the risk, and do whatever I can to make it less. I'm not a speed freak.

Having said that, once while riding on a back road with no other traffic, I got creamed in the chest by an owl....didn't crash or anything, but it hurt.
An owl.....

I wear all the gear-pants, boots, jacket, gloves and a full face helmet. As soon as I leave my laneway it's an 80km/hr road, and if I really want to go anywhere, it's 100km/hr speeds (I live in the country) That being said, if I lived in the city I'd gear up, too. My choice. The road didn't get softer just because I traded my Ninja for a Vespa.

However, I would never offer my opinion to anyone, unless asked. At that point I'd tell them my choice and why, yet the decision is still theirs. If I see someone in little to no gear I just pray they don't find out the hard way and move on.

I can understand how it would be hard to resist if it was someone relatable (ie. same age as your daughter , son, etc) Yet, they have made the choice to ride, got the license so it's on them to make an informed choice about gear, the information is out there and pretty clear.

why does it keep printing Toreador pants?

Because riding like a bullfighter is better than finding eggs on Easter...hint hint nudge nudge

what folks wear or not wear is a personal choice for sure.

I don't intervene on their choices.

I'm not sure but I think it's because the origin of motorcycle safety gear goes back many years to the days when motorcycles were used primarily for fighting bulls.

This is something I think about when I am on my road bike. On some descents such as state line hill on 9W in New Jersey, I hit over 45 mph where a wipe out would be disastrous even with the best bike helmet out there. It makes riding the 150 feel like being in a car.

I meant to answer you but never did...sorry.
I had to quit riding for a long time due to injury, but when I rode regularly, there was a particular downhill stretch on my morning commute I would hit 55-58mph on for a few minutes. I never could get it to 60...my cadence would spin out. Ignoring that hill, I used to average 8-15 uphill and 30-ish on flats. This was in the western NC mountains.

It's why I skipped the 50cc step when I got into motorized. I used to pace or pass them if I ended up behind one at a light.

I've recently gotten a hard tail mountain bike. I'm still twitchy on roads going slower than traffic, so I figured I'd try it without roads this time around.

What percentage of people do you think are just miserable twits who just shake their fists and yell at the sky any time they see other people having more fun then them?



Imagine starting a social revolution by creating a vehicle to drive youthful exuberance, only for some stuffy grump to get on a high horse about how you should or shouldn't be doing it?

Not directed at anyone in particular, I haven't even read all of the replies yet, just had a laugh thinking of the irony...

Not sure about other people but yesterday i was chasing wallabies and wombats on a 100km stretch of gravel* in a state forest. I have fun 😀

* And a small amount of mud

I bet she doesn't check the oil at the appropriate intervals either. We need to post more of these examples of how not to dress on a scooter as a public education exercise.

It's the "fix" for when you write out the abbreviation for "all the-gear, all_the-thyme."

I have been confused about this for a couple of weeks now. I even Googled toreador riding pants to see what I was missing.

If I recall, the "fix" was implemented because the forum went through a phase where the Toreador Pants crowd was continuously evangelizing the topic. The constant unsolicited advice bordered on boorish. Replacing the acronym with "Toreador Pants" was a lighthearted way of reminding people to pump the brakes a bit.

That's a very nice side stand. Where can I order one?

Umm, I wonder how you would mount that..