Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:49 am

Member
A T5/PX200 Thingy
Joined: 21 Mar 2012
Posts: 13
Location: England
 
Member
A T5/PX200 Thingy
Joined: 21 Mar 2012
Posts: 13
Location: England
Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:49 am linkquote
Hi,

I've seen replacement chassis in eBay and from SIP. I wanted to know how to go about legitimately getting the VIN number stamped into the frame.

Cheers
Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:35 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1157
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1157
Location: northern New York
Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:35 am linkquote
I'm really not sure how that is done and I guess it depends on where you are located. I considered this briefly as it's possible to buy a new Stella chassis in North America. If you have a really rusty bike, the cost can be a no brainer. The Stella chassis are quite sturdy and I wouldn't hesitate to use one.

I would either buy a set of stamps and hammer in the VIN or cut the numbered section out of the old chassis and weld it in. I think you can buy stamps in the correct font.
Where I live, they wouldn't notice or care, but I guess in some places they'd through you in jail.
Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:14 am

Addicted
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 575
Location: York, PA
 
Addicted
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 575
Location: York, PA
Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:14 am linkquote
Forgery? Felony? Everything about this is illegal, at least in the US.

https://nyccriminalattorney.com/forgery-and-possession-of-an-unlawful-vehicle-identification-number-vin-in-new-york/
Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:21 am

Hooked
Vespa ET4 125cc , Baotian 70cc rat scooter
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 423
Location: Wales
 
Hooked
Vespa ET4 125cc , Baotian 70cc rat scooter
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 423
Location: Wales
Tue Sep 20, 2022 6:21 am linkquote
When I bought a new motorcycle frame in the UK the frame comes already stamped with a frame number so you have to re-register the machine as far as I know.
Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:39 pm

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1157
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1157
Location: northern New York
Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:39 pm linkquote
I'm sure there is a legal way to do it.
Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:50 pm

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 3047
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 3047
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:50 pm linkquote
I'd stamp VIN from rusty frame onto new frame, cut number panel out of old frame and destroy old cutout piece.
Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:57 pm

Addicted
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 575
Location: York, PA
 
Addicted
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 575
Location: York, PA
Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:57 pm linkquote
While you are at it, stamp the vin from a really rare scooter into the new frame. I mean, what the hell right? That way, when you get arrested at least you'll have made a few dollars.

If I bought that scooter, with the doctored serial number, I don't know who I call first, my attorney or the police. Probably the police.
Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:12 pm

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 3047
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 3047
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:12 pm linkquote
garncarz wrote:
While you are at it, stamp the vin from a really rare scooter into the new frame. I mean, what the hell right? That way, when you get arrested at least you'll have made a few dollars.

If I bought that scooter, with the doctored serial number, I don't know who I call first, my attorney or the police. Probably the police.
What do you think happens when a bent frame on a motorcycle is replaced? Harley provided a frame with same VIN already stamped, when I went to dealer, I surrendered old section of frame in neck with VIN stamped in it. Nothing illegal about it, this is common practice on rebuilt motorcycles.
Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:58 pm

Addicted
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 575
Location: York, PA
 
Addicted
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 575
Location: York, PA
Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:58 pm linkquote
Correct, the factory provided you a replacement frame with their Vin number on it. You can't just get a blank frame and transfer a Vin number to it.
Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:39 pm

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3749

 
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3749

Tue Sep 20, 2022 4:39 pm linkquote
garncarz wrote:
While you are at it, stamp the vin from a really rare scooter into the new frame. I mean, what the hell right? That way, when you get arrested at least you'll have made a few dollars.

If I bought that scooter, with the doctored serial number, I don't know who I call first, my attorney or the police. Probably the police.
Lucky for me then that you don't know where i live...
Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:08 pm

Hooked
'58 VBA '79CT90
Joined: 25 Dec 2019
Posts: 141
Location: Chico CA
 
Hooked
'58 VBA '79CT90
Joined: 25 Dec 2019
Posts: 141
Location: Chico CA
Tue Sep 20, 2022 5:08 pm linkquote
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration

Seems doable easily enough.

In the end the government agency just want somebody to be responsible for ownership and pay the taxes.
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:23 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1157
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1157
Location: northern New York
Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:23 am linkquote
Motorcycles and scooters are probably the only vehicles that you would/could replace an entire chassis or frame.

It's kind of like the old story about the axe. If you replace the handle and later replace the head, is it still the same axe? If you rebuild all the rusty sheet metal around a VIN plate, is it still the same scooter? How much of the original chassis do you have to keep for it to be considered the same machine?

I think it's very different if you are trying to pass off something as something else. If I rebadge my Stella and tell everyone it's a Vespa…no big deal. If I try to sell it as such, that is clearly illegal and unethical.
Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:01 am

Member
VBA1T
Joined: 22 Aug 2022
Posts: 13
Location: Belgium
 
Member
VBA1T
Joined: 22 Aug 2022
Posts: 13
Location: Belgium
Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:01 am linkquote
I have the case with my last purchase, rust came on the VIN number, at the point that it was impossible to save it. This part has been cut and replaced with new metal, I bought at SIP some punches + the star punch. I kept pictures of the original number in case of problems
Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:41 am

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 3198
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 3198
Location: Veria, Greece
Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:41 am linkquote
Always depends on the country and laws. Here, you can register a new frame only if the bike is up to 10 years old. It can be done only through an official dealership. They first make a report on why you need a frame replacement, then get all paperwork, including an invoice of the new frame to our "DMV" along with the old VIN cut off the old frame and then you have 30 days to present the whole bike to be inspected. After it passes inspection, they stamp the new frame with the bike's plate number and issue the new papers...

If it's older than 10 years, forget it. No legit way to do it...
Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:41 am

Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3985
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3985
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:41 am linkquote
garncarz wrote:
It's not illegal if you legitimately purchase a new frame and make sure you get the manufacturers statement of origin with it. And you have a valid proof of ownership on the engine number you are putting into it. Each state has different rules with a similar process of applying for a new VIN number as a custom built motorcycle. It's a lot of showing records of purchases with proof of legitimate ownership for the parts used, plus an inspection from the local police and the nearest DMV field investigation location (for NYS) prior to getting an official VIN.

https://dmv.ny.gov/forms/vs100.pdf

So you would stamp the newly issued VIN number into your new frame, not the old VIN number.
Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:09 pm

Hooked
'58 VBA '79CT90
Joined: 25 Dec 2019
Posts: 141
Location: Chico CA
 
Hooked
'58 VBA '79CT90
Joined: 25 Dec 2019
Posts: 141
Location: Chico CA
Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:09 pm linkquote
OP is in England. Armchair enforcer is stateside.
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