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59 VBA 166 on 8's, 05 Stella 177 Pinasco
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Picked up a new scooter this weekend, a Stella with a Pinasco kit. It has a 24/24 and is in great shape, body and paint- wise. I need the usual, tires and battery. Everything works electrically, and it ran pretty well on a couple trips around the neighborhood. It revved super high on my last run down the street, and settled back down. Then it started revving in he garage while I was adjusting the idle- hard core revving: at least 8k RPM's, kill switch, which worked fine before, did nothing. Turned off the ignition, it kept racing, pulled the damn plug wire loose, still running. Flipped the fuel tap over and it died fairly quickly- felt like a long time. Anyway, I'm pulling apart the carb, checking for leaks, checking the gearbox for fuel. Pulling the head and de- coking if necessary. Curious, the intake looks like it was never opened up for a 24 carb. The bike came with an extra 20/20 (still oil injected) and both the 20 and the 24 have identical idle, mix and mains. Would it make sense to go back to the 20? They seem easier to dial in. Also, what's the deal on autolube on a Pinasco kit. I was a little surprised, I was expecting to be pre- mixing. Anyway, it's a pretty cool bike, never owned anything but Vespa. Nice to have some of the modcons like fuel gauge and blinkers. BTW- can anyone ID this exhaust?
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Sounds like plenty hot since it runs without a spark too. Confirm air leak with a leak tester. Hope it's not to gearbox or clutch side.

Exhaust looks like a Sito plus.
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Right on. Congratulations! It looks sweet.

I'd stick with the 24/24. Someone may not have done any porting of the carb to box and just slapped on the kit. I'm running a 24/24 on a Pinasco 177 2 Port kit on the 62 Allstate. It was way easier to dial in than the 20/20.

Also, I think the autolube gear behind the carb should be switched out with a P200 one. I read that somewhere here to ensure the kit is getting enough oil. Maybe someone here can clarify that.

It sounds like going back to the basics for jetting might be a good call.

Congratulations again! Clap emoticon Clap emoticon
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Thanks FINYoshi and qascooter!!
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Good looking scoot! Congrats.

I like the 20/20 on the 177 kits. I had the opposite of Scott's experience. The 24/24 never felt great and the 20/20 seemed a better marriage with the Box exhaust and the 177.

I would suspect the airbox or the carb being the source of your leak. Should hopefully be a quick fix.
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The 24/24 really only makes sense if there's enough porting and RPM's to pump that much air. And even then, you may struggle to get the mid-range dialed in.

I like the Stella motor a lot, especially for tuning purposes. You can get a solid build out of it even with the stock reed block, if you're willing to open things up.

I agree you 99% have an air leak that needs to be looked at before it causes catastrophic failure. Leak tester time for you.

Do you know which 177 is on it? I feel like a lot of Stellas got DR's, but there are much better options available (i.e. BGM or VMC) these days. You can get 15-17 HP out of it without too much more than bolting on and making sure your port timings are good. Add a 22t clutch and you're good-to-go for a nice 65 MPH bike.

You may want to upgrade the suspension, though, assuming those are the stock shocks. They were sourced for bumpy roads rather than high speed performance.
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chandlerman wrote:
The 24/24 really only makes sense if there's enough porting and RPM's to pump that much air. And even then, you may struggle to get the mid-range dialed in.

I like the Stella motor a lot, especially for tuning purposes. You can get a solid build out of it even with the stock reed block, if you're willing to open things up.

I agree you 99% have an air leak that needs to be looked at before it causes catastrophic failure. Leak tester time for you.

Do you know which 177 is on it? I feel like a lot of Stellas got DR's, but there are much better options available (i.e. BGM or VMC) these days. You can get 15-17 HP out of it without too much more than bolting on and making sure your port timings are good. Add a 22t clutch and you're good-to-go for a nice 65 MPH bike.

You may want to upgrade the suspension, though, assuming those are the stock shocks. They were sourced for bumpy roads rather than high speed performance.
It's a Pinasco kit. I'd like to cruise easy at 55, 2- up. I built a leak tester for the VBA. Time to crack it out. A good time to pull and clean the box pipe too.
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Mod Eric The Skin wrote:
It's a Pinasco kit. I'd like to cruise easy at 55, 2- up. I built a leak tester for the VBA. Time to crack it out. A good time to pull and clean the box pipe too.
I'm not sure until I pull the head and cylinder about port work. The kit was done by the sellers seller. The bike had a bout 4k put onto the kit by my seller.
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Cold compression is 135'ish. About five kicks.
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that's good, your kit is in good condition, just a leak somewhere to track down then.
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sdjohn wrote:
that's good, your kit is in good condition, just a leak somewhere to track down then.
I've pulled apart the carb/ carb box, waiting on gaskets. Also ordered a fly side seal. I drained the gear box, old oil, but not gassy.. hoping the carb is the area of the leak.
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sdjohn wrote:
that's good, your kit is in good condition, just a leak somewhere to track down then.
This. For the Pinasco and a box, 124TD/170ED should get you right where you want to be as a torque-y tourer.
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Current 24/24 jetting is 112/BE3/160. Does that main seem lean for a Pinasco 177 kit and Sito +?
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Mod Eric The Skin wrote:
Current 24/24 jetting is 112/BE3/160. Does that main seem lean for a Pinasco 177 kit and Sito +?
That seems pretty lean. It might be okay on an otherwise stock setup with a 140 AC. I'd still have expected a main in the 116 range, even with the 140.

Only way to know for sure is to find the jet it won't rev out with, then step it down two from there. Use a CHT to monitor mid-range and below. You can probably get it to four-stroke at 1/4 throttle, then go one atomizer leaner after that.

And if you have to choose a jet based on your CHT or the advice of some dude on the internet, trust the CHT every time.
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chandlerman wrote:
That seems pretty lean. It might be okay on an otherwise stock setup with a 140 AC. I'd still have expected a main in the 116 range, even with the 140.

Only way to know for sure is to find the jet it won't rev out with, then step it down two from there. Use a CHT to monitor mid-range and below. You can probably get it to four-stroke at 1/4 throttle, then go one atomizer leaner after that.

And if you have to choose a jet based on your CHT or the advice of some dude on the internet, trust the CHT every time.
This.
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The 24/24 carb slide was binding when it was torqued down. Also, the float chamber was binding the pivot point on the float, it was hard to pull apart or put it back together. I think someone cranked the living shit out of the carb bolts. I replaced it with the 20/20 and re- jetted, and I have the initial dial in done. Idles good and the blips settle down fast. Going to run her around the block a few times to see what it feels like at 3/4 throttle and check the head temps. No legible numbers on the main jet, but it looks like a 116 or 118 maybe?
Also: pulled the tank and drained the old fuel and oil. Refilled the gas tank with 92 octane and the oil tank with Motul 710. Two new Mich S83's and tubes. New 12v/9mah battery. Had to replace the brake light bulb. Bled the brake res and refilled with fresh DOT4. Paid the ad valorem and got my tag/ title done.
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Keep running the 20/20, as the 24/24 is not worth it on the Stella like stated before. The 20 has plenty for the specs you have.
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keaton85 wrote:
Keep running the 20/20, as the 24/24 is not worth it on the Stella like stated before. The 20 has plenty for the specs you have.
Looks like the best route! The 20/20 does not seem to have affected performance negatively. BTW, are you still running the stock cylinder on your Stella?
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Any feedback on this jet size? Looks like a 94 to me, but that seems super small for a 177 Pinasco. It's what was in the 20/20. Maybe from the stock motor? The 24/24 has a 112.
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There's almost no way it could be a 94 and not seizing with a Pinasco177, even assuming everything else is still choked down. That's with a 160 AC, right?
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I think 94 is the standard Stella jet for stock top end
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sdjohn wrote:
I think 94 is the standard Stella jet for stock top end
I thought stock was a 96, but either way, you don't want to run it with a 177
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chandlerman wrote:
I thought stock was a 96, but either way, you don't want to run it with a 177
maybe if you could find like an 80 air corrector
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sdjohn wrote:
maybe if you could find like an 80 air corrector
ROFL emoticon
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Both the 20/20 and the 24/24 are warped, they rock on a flat sheet of glass. Getting a steady oil leak right under the mix screw. Lapping those tonight.

I pulled the head and replaced the washers/ nuts and retorqued. I was getting leak at running temps that was causing an awful whistle. I have a base setup of 55/140, 160/Be3/112. Pinasco all alum. kit. Any thoughts?
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if you've lapped the head & cylinder face and they're still leaking, try hitting them with some copper spray seal before you reassemble. I started using it on DR's, which are notorious for head leaks, and it made a big difference.
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chandlerman wrote:
if you've lapped the head & cylinder face and they're still leaking, try hitting them with some copper spray seal before you reassemble. I started using it on DR's, which are notorious for head leaks, and it made a big difference.
Lapped the carb and head, the carb leak is definitely fixed, heat will tell on the head. It only seemed to leak when it got to op temps and then it whistled like a kettle.
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I too use the copper spray on the heads lately. Since I don't want it everywhere the way I've figured out to get it on the head is to spray it on some cardboard and then put the head onto the pooled spray and turn it to get good coverage.
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sdjohn wrote:
I too use the copper spray on the heads lately. Since I don't want it everywhere the way I've figured out to get it on the head is to spray it on some cardboard and then put the head onto the pooled spray and turn it to get good coverage.
I just mask things with masking tape. You probably have a spray can lid that's the right size to stick in the barrel/head to keep those clear, too.
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Got in a 35 mile run this morning. Very little WOT, had a max temp of 387f on TT. That was uphill. Top GPS speed was about 52 mph. Felt like it was revving out pretty high but had room to go. Currently at a 55/160, 140/BE4/118- that being the biggest I had. Just got a 125 and a 122. Idle is great. Settles nice. Overall pull is good on all gears. Guess I was a little timid about really going BTTW.
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387* sounds kind of high, but others will chime in about safe temps.
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orwell84 wrote:
387* sounds kind of high, but others will chime in about safe temps.
Please do, everyone. The plug is nice and deep tan. Dry. My Malossi 166 runs a little less hot (325f) all day without seizing, but its cast iron with an au head.
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Mod Eric The Skin wrote:
Please do, everyone. The plug is nice and deep tan. Dry. My Malossi 166 runs a little less hot (325f) all day without seizing, but its cast iron with an au head.
Could a loose cylinder cover contribute?
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Mod Eric The Skin wrote:
Please do, everyone. The plug is nice and deep tan. Dry. My Malossi 166 runs a little less hot (325f) all day without seizing, but its cast iron with an au head.
What's the top end on it? I agree that 387 is really high. You may not seize, but that will shorten the life of the cylinder and piston if you spend a lot of time at those temps.

If you're not putting out some major horsepower, that's too hot in any case.
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Just for comparison, I am running a Stella with a Polini 177 and long stroke crank. My jetting is still in progress, but currently it's: 42/120 160/BE3/115. I'm pretty sure I could go richer on the main. I have been doing a lot of long uphill rides. My temps haven't gone much higher than 300*. I rarely get out of 3rd on those rides. Better to keep the revs high and let the fan cool the engine. Lugging it in 4th really builds the heat.

I know you had a leak and fixed it, but I don't know if you did a full leak test. Really worthwhile if you haven't. Your jetting doesn't seem lean enough to account for those temps. Love the white scoot. My first one looked like that, back in the late 80's when I was 17.

Edit: jetting doesn't seem lean enough to account for the temps.
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chandlerman wrote:
What's the top end on it? I agree that 387 is really high. You may not seize, but that will shorten the life of the cylinder and piston if you spend a lot of time at those temps.

If you're not putting out some major horsepower, that's too hot in any case.
It's a Pinasco. The current stack is 140, BE4, 118. 55/160 idle. Orwell, I did a full leak test. And I'm back on the 24 carb. The 20 would just not behave.
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118 is too lean. Go up to a 125 and see if it'll still rev out. You might be pleasantly surprised.
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chandlerman wrote:
118 is too lean. Go up to a 125 and see if it'll still rev out. You might be pleasantly surprised.
Will do, thanks.
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UTC quote
Mod Eric The Skin wrote:
It's a Pinasco. The current stack is 140, BE4, 118. 55/160 idle. Orwell, I did a full leak test. And I'm back on the 24 carb. The 20 would just not behave.
Sorry, I wasn't sure.
OP
@mod_eric_the_skin avatar
UTC

Hooked
59 VBA 166 on 8's, 05 Stella 177 Pinasco
Joined: UTC
Posts: 274
Location: Athens GA
 
Hooked
@mod_eric_the_skin avatar
59 VBA 166 on 8's, 05 Stella 177 Pinasco
Joined: UTC
Posts: 274
Location: Athens GA
UTC quote
orwell84 wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't sure.
No worries, I appreciate your feedback!
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