Modern Vespa

See... "Girls, the ocean, Drakoir Noir, disco balls, frothy cold beer, tacos. (And hot engine cases with freshly installed bearings.) "

AKA Victory.

Sorry for butting in, but might be of interest to the OP too.

I was wondering about the MHR vs Sport for touring…beyond what SIP says about it. It also seems like only the Sport can be used with a 60 mm crank.

To the OP…Definitely not time wasted pulling apart your engine to see what you've got. At the very least, it's good practice and the best place to make mistakes. Better than getting gorilla handed on a shiny new Malossi case.

They can all be used with a 60mm crank. The 60mm mhr will even take a 64mm crank. It's the sport kit that has the least improvement. All can be adjusted further with some Dremel work. The single mhr ring is less good for low rpm use but at touring speed, probably a benefit. Setting up the carb well is key to touring reliability, not so much kit choice.

It sure was delicious!

No worries about butting in, I'm digging all the dialog and pro tips you guys are sharing. I really enjoyed pulling the engine apart. I have a better understanding now of how everything works together.

I have to admit my head is still spinning though with all of different ways I could go. I reached out to SIP to get yet another recommendation based on the engine I'd like to build (fast-ish + reliable-ish) and they recommend the V-One case with a 60mm crank, along with updating the gearbox and clutch.

I'm kinda leaning in the new parts direction because I want to build something really nice and not bodgey (and I kinda like new stuff that hasn't been abused), but finding a good condition used P200 motor is also an option. I'll put this particular topic to bed though as I'm sure you're all sick of me hemming and hawing about it and I'll post again when I finally do something and you can all cheer me on or tell me how much of a fool I am!

I'm still gonna yank that bearing and take a look at my case half though as well.

First things first, don't worry about posting or not posting as you ruminate. I think I had three or four pages of ruminations for my Smallstate thread before I ever turned a wrench on it. Thinking with your keyboard and getting responses, suggestions, and the occasional warning is a great way to learn. If people get tired of it, they can quit following your thread.

Next, I still think there's value in doing a stock-ish rebuild to cut your teeth on these motors. Maybe not with your existing Frankencases, but you have everything you need except for the cases. Do a build on a BGM 177, get comfortable with how things fit together, and get used to riding it--fast bikes take skill to not kill yourself the first time you twist the throttle (and every subsequent time, too).

I have a BGM on my SprintV cases and it GSFDyno'ed at 17HP. That's not at all shabby, but also not so fast that I can't run it with stock parts. For most folks, that's the sweet spot in the Cost-Performance-Reliability triangle. First kick start; Goes Plaid; Built with stock internals, other than replacing the 6-spring with a 7-spring (but still stock) clutch. If it wasn't in my VBB, it'd even still be autolube.

Also, assuming that Kajit hooks you up with some fresh cases, you could have the whole thing back together and running in time for New Years.

If you get a few miles on it and don't think that's enough power, you can start to plot the Beeg Motor Projyect. If it's going to be all new parts, you're looking at three or four grand to build it up, because you'll need to splash out for high end clutch, crank, gears, ignition, reed block, carb, suspension, wheels & tires, etc. For that kind of cash, you want to be sure you're going to do it right so you don't wind up blowing it up with bad timings or jetting, or getting smoked off the line by some jerk on a beat up smallframe or a couple guys who learned English from watching Howard Cosell.

That is some sage advice Chandler....

Lol, CM, you (and the Better Off Dead clip ) may have convinced me. It would be nice to get riding sooner rather than later and make my mistakes on the more budget side of things. Then if I successfully build a first kick bike, I can then entertain the idea of the bling motor. I like it. Plus there are so many other things I need to do like wiring, fuel tank love, new fork, etc.

I will gather my ham slices and reach out to the great Kajit and see what I find!

Definitely good advice. My eyes got real big when I first started considering an engine rebuild and I pondered and discussed for ages before actually building anything. Sometimes, we talk more than we wrench and many here enjoy joining in on virtual window shopping.

The plug and play end of the tuning spectrum has a lot to offer for performance with a lot less cost and headache. It doesn't take much to make these machines faster than I have the nerve to ride them at this point.

My current engine would be considered a boring build for those here who push the envelope and I'm still dialing it in. A lot of the tuners here have had a long road of trial and error and breaking expensive stuff. It would be discouraging to start that way.

I have had tons of fun on the backroads of Vermont. I also have a starting point knowing that x engine, with y timings and z gearing runs a certain way. It helps me know what I might build next.

No harm in pondering and asking questions before busting open the wallet. Sorry if I am repeating myself. Good luck.


It's not that fast, but for 30 years I wanted to do this and then I did and it's the best!

Looking good, Orwell! Appreciate the insight. I do think I'd be more satisfied with a runner that I can improve upon over an expensive lump that can't leave the garage because I've screwed up/didn't know/guessed wrong about x y and z.

Highly recommend that as your next step, especially since he's offered to take a look at what you have there.

Gearing in good shape?
They'll migrate to early P125 cases pre-1980 or so) as well. A few more options and a bit easier to play with.

A warning I haven't seen mentioned:
Go-faster bikes are loud as F vs what you have now.

So the guy selling the P200E motor on CL (https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/mpo/7561543662.html) actually got back to me. Sounds like a fairly legit dude.

Story of the motor is this - he's owned it for about 12 years, purchased from a family member, who bought it from the original owner. He was riding it a few years ago, had what sounds like a soft seize and decided to open the motor up and check things out. He sent the cases to Al at Hot Rod Scooters, who inspected everything and did some machining on the rotary pad. Everything is apparently stock, except for a Mazz crank, which they think the original owner installed (because his family member he bought it from did not). Him and a buddy are the ones that did the actual rebuild with bearings and seals. He said since the rebuild a couple years ago, it's basically sat, but he'd fire it up and ride it a few miles every couple months. He did mention he's noticed fuel pooling on the flywheel side, and thinks it's a fuel tap issue...but obviously could be anything.

He wants $1250 for the deal, plus I'd have to figure out a way to get it down to me in LA without it costing another arm and a leg.

Regardless, he said he'd put me in touch with Al because he thinks if anyone could weld my busted case half it could be him, so that might be nice. But I haven't decided to pull the trigger on the motor yet. What's everyones thoughts? (Greasy I'm lookin' at you especially so you don't have to tear apart your garage for me if you think this is a good way to go! )

I'm kinda thinking if I do go this route, I should open it up, check everything, and redo everything anyway. Or at least maybe leak test and if it passes, open it up to check things out but wait on the seals and bearings. Like whodat said, not that I don't trust the guy but, it's not me doing the work so I won't know for sure until I look. I just dunno if $1250 is too steep.

A few thoughts…

Shipping isn't all that expensive to be a deterrent.

My OCD would nag me to get my peanut buttery and fingers in there for a look…but there isn't that much to check and you would pressure test it and anything you built yourself anyway.

To me, the price doesn't sound too steep, especially for a complete 200 engine…if it is in the stated condition. They are harder to find. The new parts option with the Malossi case and whatnot would easily be 3k, but I think you have ruled that out.

You could play it safe and see what Greasy has on hand. $1225 seems reasonable, but would be a bad burn. Trust is worth $$$. My preference would be for a 200 either way.

Thanks, Orwell. Yeah he says it's complete like the photos. Airbox, carb, couple of pipes if I want them. Already has electronic ignition so I wouldn't have to drop dough on a vape or similar like I would if I was going at it from scratch. And yeah, I think the Malossi option is on hold for now. I'll get one under my belt before I get fancy.

I'll wait to hear from Greasy before I do anything. Made me a little nervous when he said he was seeing fuel on the fly side. Could be as simple as a seal but as crappy as a crack. I've already got one of those and don't need another! He mentioned fuel tap being the culprit but I can't work out in my head how that would be the case. But also if Al went through it and inspected it like he claimed, you'd think he would have found and repaired something like that…

anything sub 2K for a complete P200 with matching cases is a good deal. shipping wouldn't be astronomical which is good, but I'd almost make it a road trip and go pick it up. probably work out to the same money and you wouldn't have to worry about it getting damaged in transit.

if you can get in touch with Al, he might remember the job and be able to shed some light on it-- especially with the "machined rotary" and he may be able to repair your case half too.

either way, I'd go thru the whole thing and do soft parts at minimum while inspecting everything. if the bearings passed the eyeball test I'd roll 'em. so figure another maybe $100 on parts and bits and bobs.

if that doesn't pan out, there's other motors out there that are the same gamble but a little more lift. you're paying a premium for a motor that's complete and not exploded view in boxes, and there's a value to that as a first timer.

Thanks, Greasy! Yeah I could make it up and back in a day if I huffed it and would only cost me a couple tanks of gas.

I'm corresponding with Al via email and I'll ask him if he remembers it. If he speaks highly of it, it might be a good way to go. 🤔 I sent him the video I took of my case blowing bubbles and his initial thought on those weird screws/rivets that shouldn't be there was SEA work…

cool cool. let us know how it shakes out.

if it all falls apart, I'm sure we can figure something out from the kajiit stocks or a trusted associate.

hit me up if you need a hand with the teardown. I'll be in town all thru the holiday

Will do!

Also, can anyone tell me what this other number next to the VIN is? Or if it's even supposed to be there?

http://scooterhelp.com/serial/igm.html

No way.

Thanks. Maybe it's just me but I've perused scooterhelp quite a bit but then someone will send me a link that I have no idea how to navigate to via the interface on their site 😂

I went ahead and pulled the tank today. I suspected a leaky oil tank, so I wanted to investigate that and I'm going to do new cables and wire harness soon so I figured having the tank out would make things easier anyway.

Weirdness includes - no gasket around the lip of the tank, a totally jacked choke lever and what I can only assume is a plug weld and re-tap at the bottom of the oil tank.

As I was draining the fuel, I realized the fuel tap would shut off in the reserve position, and even then normal "on" position was flowing pretty slowly. I'll replace the tap anyway, but I guess it's good I found this out now instead of on the side of the road. Could have been some rust flakes clogging things. Overall, the rust isn't too bad. Oil tank seems worse than the fuel tank. Might try filling it with a rust remover and letting it sit. The filter in the oil tank wasn't that clogged.

I expected to see more oil in the tunnel, but it seems like it was slowly weeping from the bolt the hose connects to and the bottom of the sight glass. Both were barely hand tight, so I'm thinking it might be fine if I torque them down some more and maybe put a little blue thread lock on the oil bolt. I can't tell if that's surface rust on the tunnel or a combo of oil and grime. I kinda wanna strip the whole thing down (since I'm 50% of the way there anyway) and blast it clean with a pressure washer to see what it looks like. I know the floorboard is cracked on the clutch side in the back near the cowl, so I'm hoping I can just weld up a fix and not have to replace the whole floorboard.

Pics:






Bit of rust and muck in there

Tank is in decent shape otherwise it seems?

"Yes, I'd like to speak to someone in the WTF department please..."

tank doesn't look that bad, if you were really uptight you could throw some evaporust in there overnight, but honestly vinegar would probably clean that up pretty good. the tap was a foregone conclusion. it's like all used bikes need one.

don't bother with locktite on the banjo bolt. just refresh the gaskets and snug it up good.

wipe out the tunnel and be done with it. it's not going to rust out. it's fine.

you're starting down the slippery slope of fixing stuff that doesn't need to be fixed or worried about. this is how bikes end up in pieces.

address the biggest issue-- motor-- first.

then, just.freeking.ride it.

It's in the works, I'm just poking around in the meantime. Dude said he'd get back to me this week with a time to meet up and grab the motor from him, so, assuming he actually does that, hopefully I'll have it by the weekend.

The tunnel looks pretty good. Looks like only surface rust and no Frankenstein welding. I bet it cleans right up with a shop rag. The tank looks pretty good too. Makes sense to get a working tap and everything buttoned up.

For anyone curious about the other side of that fly side bearing:

can you give a little wider angle on that and some of the front?
I'm legit interested if that's repairable. I *think* I know how it happened, but it just intrigues me.

Sure thing -














I also messed up and tried to remove the selector box bearing with a chisel (ala Sausage, alas, I am not Sausage) and marred the case. Lesson learned, Puller or correct drift from here on out

meh. at least the selector/axle bearing experiment was on a case that's likely junk...

can you tell if there's JB weld in that crack or did they seal it up with something goopy?

that's just wild. it looks like the break is super clean and it wouldn't take much to finesse it back together if done correctly.

Yeah that was my thinking too. It seems like maybe JB Weld or some kind of epoxy but kind of sloppily applied. There are some goopy looking streaks that I can pick off with a pick near the bottom of the bearing bush. I still don't get the whole screw/bolt business on the outside though?

While I sort my engine situation out (minor detail) I've been poking around trying to gather details about my current wiring situation and try to figure out why some things stopped working before, well, everything stopped working

It seems some parts of the harness are newer and some look original. The thing that confuses me most is that the tail light and headlight are both dual-filament 12V bulbs (one of the headlight filaments was broken so that's why I lost high or low beam). I plan to go 12V on whatever engine I end up putting in and I have a new BGM harness and regulator on hand when the time comes. Could the PO have just been using 12V bulbs with 6V lighting coils? Would the bulbs just be dimmer than normal in that case? The stator coils look original to me. Electrics are still new to me so I'm just trying to learn…

Have a lead on a set of VBC cases. Is this rotary pad too beat up or workable? I know it's hard to tell from a pic…

It's a little beat up, but nothing you can't easily repair with JBWeld.

I agree. It would probably run ok anyway, but I would JB weld it. Burn off any oil with a blowtorch and clean with acetone before applying.


My rotary pad is worse, but it didn't seem to affect how it ran. I will be JB welding it as I described.

Sweet. Thanks for the quick reply guys. Seller says he can't feel them with his fingernail so the pic might make it look worse than they are. These cases are affordable and seem to be in good shape, just oxidized from sitting around. I have access to a sandblaster so I think I'll clean them up that way. Seller also says if I get them and find a crack or anything he'll refund my dough. So, I think I'm gonna jump on it.

that's a win-win all the way around. and I concur with the other assessments, run that sucker.

best part is all your stuff will slip right into those cases!

do they have the 3rd port? not a deal breaker, but something to consider....

Yeah, 3 port! I'm stoked. I'm thinking I will probably do a cylinder kit (on account of the beat up crank and me bashing it out of the cases like it was going to be throw away) and a VAPE and re-use everything else from my bike.

hells yeah.

if the cylinder isn't roached, then I'd probably run it. no sense in adding another variable to the mix on a fresh build your first time out. also, throwing a kit on down the line is quick and easy, especially if you have an established base line of a solid good running reliable motor.

inspect the gears closely, replace as needed. decide if you want to upgrade the clutch while it's all apart. upgrade the crank for sure and roll with that vape. solid combo.