Molto Verboso
![]() Joined: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 21:32:14 +0000
Posts: 1754 Location: northern New York |
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Sun, 15 Jan 2023 18:11:31 +0000
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chandlerman wrote: Not to be totally pedantic, but those are Citroens. I'm pretty sure there weren't many BMW's in France twenty years after WW2. ![]() Two of the assassins had MP-40's, which were assumably WW2 partisan surplus, along with a proper British Bren gun. ![]()
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Hooked
![]() '58 VBA '79CT90
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Posts: 243 Location: Chico CA |
Sergeant at Arms
![]() Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:59:19 +0000
Posts: 12906 Location: The state of insanity, SoCal |
Mon, 16 Jan 2023 00:01:05 +0000
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your brass bush on the cases... is that just scratched/gouged or is it actually split?
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![]() Mon, 16 Jan 2023 04:12:58 +0000
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7538 Location: Nashville |
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7538 Location: Nashville |
Mon, 16 Jan 2023 04:12:58 +0000
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Ray8 wrote: These guys: ![]() I'll bet there weren't a lot of BMW motorcycles in French Government service twenty years after WW2, either, though. |
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![]() Mon, 16 Jan 2023 05:17:09 +0000
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'71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
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![]() '71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
Mon, 16 Jan 2023 05:17:09 +0000
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greasy125 wrote: your brass bush on the cases... is that just scratched/gouged or is it actually split? ![]() |
Style Maven
![]() '74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 02:37:37 +0000
Posts: 8907 Location: seattle/athens |
Mon, 16 Jan 2023 09:01:41 +0000
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I'll bet somebody tried to pound or press a bearing in crooked there.
![]() Just don't you do the same and you should be fine.
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Sergeant at Arms
![]() Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:59:19 +0000
Posts: 12906 Location: The state of insanity, SoCal |
Mon, 16 Jan 2023 09:23:23 +0000
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voodoo's got it on the money. somebody was one eyeing that install and it wasn't the good eye.
dress down any sharp edges and you should be fine and dandy. |
OP
![]() Mon, 16 Jan 2023 16:26:37 +0000
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'71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
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![]() '71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
Mon, 16 Jan 2023 16:26:37 +0000
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V oodoo wrote: I'll bet somebody tried to pound or press a bearing in crooked there. ![]() Just don't you do the same and you should be fine. |
Molto Verboso
![]() Joined: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 21:32:14 +0000
Posts: 1754 Location: northern New York |
Mon, 16 Jan 2023 17:20:51 +0000
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Glad you can reuse it. A crack didn't make sense but a gouge sure does. If the bearing was loose in the bushing, there would be lots of marking all around. There should be plenty of surface area to hold the bearing in place. Gotta love these old cases. I absolutely whaled on one of mine to get it apart and was shocked it didn't do it any harm.
Onward!
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OP
![]() Tue, 17 Jan 2023 04:59:13 +0000
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'71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
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![]() '71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
Tue, 17 Jan 2023 04:59:13 +0000
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Onward indeed!
I've been cleaning and de-rusting the new cases this weekend. Evaporust has been killing it, which is nice. Pressure washing the cases did less than I hoped. Once I dried them, the chalky-ness of the oxidation was back. Think I'll work up a vinegar solution and just do some light scrubbing where bearings sit and gaskets seal and that's it. Got my big SIP order today. Crank + VAPE. Disappointed with the shipping. Can't believe they A) stacked them like that with nothing in between and B) that the crank comes in it's own box with zero packing. Just loose in there? (I'm the kind of person that puts a cereal box back on the shelf if the corner is dented so you can image how much this stings ![]() ![]() ![]() |
![]() Tue, 17 Jan 2023 13:58:07 +0000
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7538 Location: Nashville |
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
Posts: 7538 Location: Nashville |
Tue, 17 Jan 2023 13:58:07 +0000
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Horribly inadequate packing is like some sort of weird fetish for crank manufacturers. I think that most of the Mazzy cranks I've bought showed up with the boxes looking about like yours.
Even my snazzy new Quattrini crank was just thrown in the box, as were the cases. The cylinder is lovingly packed and padded, though. Such a huge difference even when it all came from the same workshop. Usually SIP pack things better than that, but if it was that or go to the next larger size box, you know which way they're going to choose. The VAPE packing, on the other hand, has always been first rate. I'm always pleased when I open one of those boxes and see it all sitting in the custom-fit cardboard packing. It makes me want to not throw out the box just because it's such a nice piece of design work.
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OP
![]() Tue, 17 Jan 2023 17:21:57 +0000
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'71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
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![]() '71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
Tue, 17 Jan 2023 17:21:57 +0000
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chandlerman wrote: It makes me want to not throw out the box just because it's such a nice piece of design work. ![]() |
Molto Verboso
![]() Joined: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 21:32:14 +0000
Posts: 1754 Location: northern New York |
Sat, 21 Jan 2023 14:45:16 +0000
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My Mazz crank arrived exactly the same way. I threw it on V blocks and checked it for runout just to make sure.
Best packaging ever was a set of 70's NOS Kolbenschmidt pistons I bought from a guy on a VW bus forum. Made from melted down bucket helmets rather than Chinese bed frames. I still use the box for my next best set of spare pistons. ![]() Now that's a box! ![]() |
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![]() Sat, 21 Jan 2023 16:56:41 +0000
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'71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
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![]() '71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
Sat, 21 Jan 2023 16:56:41 +0000
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Looks like that could have been airdropped to your front lawn and been fine!
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OP
![]() Mon, 23 Jan 2023 04:47:52 +0000
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'71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
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![]() '71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
Mon, 23 Jan 2023 04:47:52 +0000
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Slow, steady progress over here. I rebuilt the cush drive today with the dual springs and a new bearing and also reassembled the gearbox with a new cruciform and checked the slop.
All went pretty smoothly except for I wish I had half-peened all the rivets before fully peening them to give a little more play in the plates when pushing the rivets through. I half peened one, then fully peened the one opposite it, thinking that would be enough to line everything up, but the holes were ever so slightly off to make it a pita to get the last 3 or so rivets in. All good now though and I'll know better next time! My goal is to get the case halves together next weekend. After my cheapo portable hot plate from Amazon shows up, I think I'll have everything I need. ![]() 21 needles. I counted, probably too many times.
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OP
![]() Sat, 28 Jan 2023 05:32:53 +0000
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'71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
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![]() '71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
Sat, 28 Jan 2023 05:32:53 +0000
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Hope "excruciatingly slow progress" is everybody's thing, cause that's all I got for ya! Installed the oil seals tonight. I'm happy I got the oil passageway holes lined up really well and that my impromptu seal driver worked pretty good. I put a small amount of grease on the clutch side seal edge and small amount of moto-seal on the fly side flange. Hopefully helps in my quest for no leakage.
Very close to case closing, I'm just going to ensure my crank is true before doing so (I know it's probably fine but I'm a measure three times cut once kind of person…and even then there's a decent chance of failure! 😂) ![]() ![]() Yes, I *do* have friends! But I also have quick-grips…
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OP
![]() Sun, 29 Jan 2023 05:31:30 +0000
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'71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
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![]() '71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
Sun, 29 Jan 2023 05:31:30 +0000
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Ok, dumb question but I'm going to ask because I'm confused. I want to do new case bolts and hardware because some of mine are bent. I ordered this kit, which says it fits the VLB and VBC. However, from what I can tell, I don't need the 80mm bolt it comes with and I actually need 7 (not 6 like the kit) short bolts. Can someone kindly confirm if I'm correct or if the 80mm bolt is supposed to go somewhere and I'm just missing it on the parts schematic?
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OP
![]() Wed, 01 Feb 2023 07:20:27 +0000
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'71 Sprint Veloce
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![]() '71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
Wed, 01 Feb 2023 07:20:27 +0000
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Measured the rotary pad surface, both bearing seats and the ends way out by the threads and everything was right around .001". About as straight as it can get. (At first I thought it was worse, at around 0.01", then realized this whole stupid shelf work surface it's on has some flex. Moved it to the more sturdy workbench and it was all good!) Probably overkill, but now I know for sure.
![]() Thanks to Ray for the sweet stand! |
Molto Verboso
![]() Joined: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 21:32:14 +0000
Posts: 1754 Location: northern New York |
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Wed, 01 Feb 2023 16:59:42 +0000
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brok3nr0b0t wrote: Measured the rotary pad surface, both bearing seats and the ends way out by the threads and everything was right around .001". About as straight as it can get. (At first I thought it was worse, at around 0.01", then realized this whole stupid shelf work surface it's on has some flex. Moved it to the more sturdy workbench and it was all good!) Probably overkill, but now I know for sure. Btw if the table surface is uneven, you can loosen the base screws, press down on the base plates and re-tighten. ![]()
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OP
![]() Fri, 03 Feb 2023 06:43:03 +0000
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'71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
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![]() '71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
Fri, 03 Feb 2023 06:43:03 +0000
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In all of your collective experiences, if I heat the case and freeze the crank (with the bearings already installed on it), will I actually be able to stuff it in the case by hand? Or is using the crank installer tool a better way to go? This is a VBC engine with the seal on the outside. I made a wood "clutch cover" to pull against and it seems like it would work ok, but if I can just jam it in there I won't go to the trouble of fumbling around with the puller/installer.
(And I didn't realize the Vape doesn't come with a flywheel nut so I'll have to order that. Just when I thought I had everything!) ![]() |
Sergeant at Arms
![]() Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:59:19 +0000
Posts: 12906 Location: The state of insanity, SoCal |
Fri, 03 Feb 2023 09:54:36 +0000
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sometimes they pop right on in with a little persuasion and sometimes you have to fight them. heat and cold certainly can be beneficial. the puller tool is where it's at and using the correct tool for the job *generally* means the install is correct and you have less inherent risk on damaging the parts.
could that set up work? sure I guess. but I wouldn't want to try and find out on a new crank. |
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 16:23:21 +0000
Posts: 5617 Location: Tega Cay, SC |
Fri, 03 Feb 2023 15:00:08 +0000
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For what it's worth : buy or borrow the correct tool for the job. Even if you use it just once, it will make it go so much easier.
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OP
![]() Fri, 03 Feb 2023 16:50:46 +0000
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'71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
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![]() '71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
Fri, 03 Feb 2023 16:50:46 +0000
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I'm all about using the right tool, but I guess I'm missing something. I bought this tool but then I realized that I don't think I can use it on my engine to install the crank because the oil seal is on the outside (and I assumed the tool would press up against the oil seal and ruin it, but maybe I'm missing something?), which is why I made that stupid thing out of wood to keep the tool away from the oil seal. Is there a way to use that tool to install the crank with the seal on the outside or do I need something else?
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 02:54:23 +0000
Posts: 7105 Location: San Diego, CA |
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 02:54:23 +0000
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 02:54:23 +0000
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![]() Fri, 03 Feb 2023 17:17:42 +0000
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'71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
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![]() '71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 02:54:23 +0000
Posts: 7105 Location: San Diego, CA |
Fri, 03 Feb 2023 17:25:06 +0000
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they work really well, worth the money. sits on the circlip. Had to open mine up a bit, it was hanging on the primary. but it's worth having.
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Fri, 03 Feb 2023 17:42:56 +0000
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brok3nr0b0t wrote: I made that stupid thing out of wood to keep the tool away from the oil seal. Is there a way to use that tool to install the crank with the seal on the outside or do I need something else?
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OP
![]() Fri, 03 Feb 2023 17:49:51 +0000
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'71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
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![]() '71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
Fri, 03 Feb 2023 17:49:51 +0000
quote
sdjohn wrote: they work really well, worth the money. sits on the circlip. Had to open mine up a bit, it was hanging on the primary. but it's worth having. ![]() |
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 02:54:23 +0000
Posts: 7105 Location: San Diego, CA |
Fri, 03 Feb 2023 18:17:15 +0000
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That's a good question. I'm not sure I know your answer. It might work off those washers but I don't know. Here's a pic of it from the engine inside. You can see it rides inboard of the tabs, sitting on the circlip in my case. I'm not 100% this tool works for you.
![]() |
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![]() Fri, 03 Feb 2023 19:17:13 +0000
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'71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
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![]() '71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: Thu, 08 Sep 2022 22:57:05 +0000
Posts: 266 Location: SoCal |
Fri, 03 Feb 2023 19:17:13 +0000
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Ah I see. Thanks for taking the time to take a photo for me. It might work, hard to say. My dumb wood thing also might work, I'm just a little concerned the center hole isn't perfect and I don't want to pull it in at an angle. But maybe making the hole slightly larger and using a washer as Ray suggests might give it some wiggle room.
There is a Robot rebuild video where he heats the case up and is just able to stuff it in by hand so I might just try that, but I know in reality it may not be that simple. |
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 02:54:23 +0000
Posts: 7105 Location: San Diego, CA |
Fri, 03 Feb 2023 22:01:34 +0000
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I stole the photo from my other thread, it was easy .
I think some of our Super fans should be along soon to answer. |
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 02:54:23 +0000
Posts: 7105 Location: San Diego, CA |
Fri, 03 Feb 2023 22:12:20 +0000
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to me it looks like if you removed the tab washers and put the nuts so there wasn't a corner in your way, you could probably use the tool. you might even be able to use a circlip from the other style engines in the grooves you have if you wanted to. I wonder why they made that change anyway??
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Addicted
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 02:53:03 +0000
Posts: 632 Location: Tucson, AZ |
Fri, 03 Feb 2023 23:52:54 +0000
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sdjohn wrote: I think some of our Super fans should be along soon to answer. ![]() Da Bears
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Sat, 04 Feb 2023 01:10:05 +0000
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sdjohn wrote: I wonder why they made that change anyway??
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bodgemaster
![]() 63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:01:08 +0000
Posts: 6698 Location: So Cal |
Veni, Vidi, Posti
![]() '15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 02:54:23 +0000
Posts: 7105 Location: San Diego, CA |
Sat, 04 Feb 2023 01:47:00 +0000
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Makes sense now. Still never had an auto lube yet. I bet you could get a circlip just to pull it in.
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