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If I were a collector, I would go for an MP-40 or a Sten gun.
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chandlerman wrote:
Not to be totally pedantic, but those are Citroens. I'm pretty sure there weren't many BMW's in France twenty years after WW2. Razz emoticon

Two of the assassins had MP-40's, which were assumably WW2 partisan surplus, along with a proper British Bren gun.
These guys:
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The first car the Vespa passed is a 110 chassis Mercedes. Have to love the Citröen DS. Still looks like the future.
⚠️ Last edited by Grumpnut on UTC; edited 2 times
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your brass bush on the cases... is that just scratched/gouged or is it actually split?
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Ray8 wrote:
These guys:
Doh! Facepalm emoticon

I'll bet there weren't a lot of BMW motorcycles in French Government service twenty years after WW2, either, though.
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greasy125 wrote:
your brass bush on the cases... is that just scratched/gouged or is it actually split?
Hard to say for sure. I'm leaning gouged because it doesn't seem to follow the grain of the bush like you'd think a crack might. But it's a significant lip I can feel with my finger nail. Bush is definitely still secure in there. Here's another angle. Confusing though because I don't know what would be spinning in there to cause that gouge…unless the bearing came loose but you'd think the rest of it wouldn't look so good then either.
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UTC quote
I'll bet somebody tried to pound or press a bearing in crooked there. Facepalm emoticon

Just don't you do the same and you should be fine.
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voodoo's got it on the money. somebody was one eyeing that install and it wasn't the good eye.

dress down any sharp edges and you should be fine and dandy.
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V oodoo wrote:
I'll bet somebody tried to pound or press a bearing in crooked there. Facepalm emoticon

Just don't you do the same and you should be fine.
Ah, yes. If you follow the arc of that curve around, I bet it bottoms out against the case opposite the high side of the gouge. Like the bearing was crooked and someone just didn't let up. That makes sense. Good sleuthing! 🕵️‍♂️
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Glad you can reuse it. A crack didn't make sense but a gouge sure does. If the bearing was loose in the bushing, there would be lots of marking all around. There should be plenty of surface area to hold the bearing in place. Gotta love these old cases. I absolutely whaled on one of mine to get it apart and was shocked it didn't do it any harm.

Onward!
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Onward indeed!

I've been cleaning and de-rusting the new cases this weekend. Evaporust has been killing it, which is nice. Pressure washing the cases did less than I hoped. Once I dried them, the chalky-ness of the oxidation was back. Think I'll work up a vinegar solution and just do some light scrubbing where bearings sit and gaskets seal and that's it.

Got my big SIP order today. Crank + VAPE. Disappointed with the shipping. Can't believe they A) stacked them like that with nothing in between and B) that the crank comes in it's own box with zero packing. Just loose in there? (I'm the kind of person that puts a cereal box back on the shelf if the corner is dented so you can image how much this stings Laughing emoticon ) VAPE seems undamaged, just hope the crank isn't out of true or anything from this wack.
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Lucky
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UTC quote
Horribly inadequate packing is like some sort of weird fetish for crank manufacturers. I think that most of the Mazzy cranks I've bought showed up with the boxes looking about like yours.

Even my snazzy new Quattrini crank was just thrown in the box, as were the cases. The cylinder is lovingly packed and padded, though. Such a huge difference even when it all came from the same workshop.

Usually SIP pack things better than that, but if it was that or go to the next larger size box, you know which way they're going to choose.

The VAPE packing, on the other hand, has always been first rate. I'm always pleased when I open one of those boxes and see it all sitting in the custom-fit cardboard packing. It makes me want to not throw out the box just because it's such a nice piece of design work.
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
It makes me want to not throw out the box just because it's such a nice piece of design work.
Ha, I'm definitely a box-keeper. Then 5 years down the line I'm like "Why, exactly, do I need this box still?" Laughing emoticon
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My Mazz crank arrived exactly the same way. I threw it on V blocks and checked it for runout just to make sure.

Best packaging ever was a set of 70's NOS Kolbenschmidt pistons I bought from a guy on a VW bus forum. Made from melted down bucket helmets rather than Chinese bed frames. I still use the box for my next best set of spare pistons.
Now that's a box!
Now that's a box!
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Looks like that could have been airdropped to your front lawn and been fine!
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UTC quote
Slow, steady progress over here. I rebuilt the cush drive today with the dual springs and a new bearing and also reassembled the gearbox with a new cruciform and checked the slop.

All went pretty smoothly except for I wish I had half-peened all the rivets before fully peening them to give a little more play in the plates when pushing the rivets through. I half peened one, then fully peened the one opposite it, thinking that would be enough to line everything up, but the holes were ever so slightly off to make it a pita to get the last 3 or so rivets in. All good now though and I'll know better next time!

My goal is to get the case halves together next weekend. After my cheapo portable hot plate from Amazon shows up, I think I'll have everything I need.
21 needles.  I counted, probably too many times.
21 needles. I counted, probably too many times.
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UTC quote
Hope "excruciatingly slow progress" is everybody's thing, cause that's all I got for ya! Installed the oil seals tonight. I'm happy I got the oil passageway holes lined up really well and that my impromptu seal driver worked pretty good. I put a small amount of grease on the clutch side seal edge and small amount of moto-seal on the fly side flange. Hopefully helps in my quest for no leakage.

Very close to case closing, I'm just going to ensure my crank is true before doing so (I know it's probably fine but I'm a measure three times cut once kind of person…and even then there's a decent chance of failure! 😂)
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Yes, I *do* have friends! But I also have quick-grips…
Yes, I *do* have friends! But I also have quick-grips…
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UTC quote
Ok, dumb question but I'm going to ask because I'm confused. I want to do new case bolts and hardware because some of mine are bent. I ordered this kit, which says it fits the VLB and VBC. However, from what I can tell, I don't need the 80mm bolt it comes with and I actually need 7 (not 6 like the kit) short bolts. Can someone kindly confirm if I'm correct or if the 80mm bolt is supposed to go somewhere and I'm just missing it on the parts schematic?
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Measured the rotary pad surface, both bearing seats and the ends way out by the threads and everything was right around .001". About as straight as it can get. (At first I thought it was worse, at around 0.01", then realized this whole stupid shelf work surface it's on has some flex. Moved it to the more sturdy workbench and it was all good!) Probably overkill, but now I know for sure.
Thanks to Ray for the sweet stand!
Thanks to Ray for the sweet stand!
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That is a nice stand. Always nice to measure when you can.
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brok3nr0b0t wrote:
Measured the rotary pad surface, both bearing seats and the ends way out by the threads and everything was right around .001". About as straight as it can get. (At first I thought it was worse, at around 0.01", then realized this whole stupid shelf work surface it's on has some flex. Moved it to the more sturdy workbench and it was all good!) Probably overkill, but now I know for sure.
108's setup is why-didn't-I-think-of-that-genius.

Btw if the table surface is uneven, you can loosen the base screws, press down on the base plates and re-tighten.
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In all of your collective experiences, if I heat the case and freeze the crank (with the bearings already installed on it), will I actually be able to stuff it in the case by hand? Or is using the crank installer tool a better way to go? This is a VBC engine with the seal on the outside. I made a wood "clutch cover" to pull against and it seems like it would work ok, but if I can just jam it in there I won't go to the trouble of fumbling around with the puller/installer.

(And I didn't realize the Vape doesn't come with a flywheel nut so I'll have to order that. Just when I thought I had everything!)
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UTC quote
sometimes they pop right on in with a little persuasion and sometimes you have to fight them. heat and cold certainly can be beneficial. the puller tool is where it's at and using the correct tool for the job *generally* means the install is correct and you have less inherent risk on damaging the parts.

could that set up work? sure I guess. but I wouldn't want to try and find out on a new crank.
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For what it's worth : buy or borrow the correct tool for the job. Even if you use it just once, it will make it go so much easier.
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I'm all about using the right tool, but I guess I'm missing something. I bought this tool but then I realized that I don't think I can use it on my engine to install the crank because the oil seal is on the outside (and I assumed the tool would press up against the oil seal and ruin it, but maybe I'm missing something?), which is why I made that stupid thing out of wood to keep the tool away from the oil seal. Is there a way to use that tool to install the crank with the seal on the outside or do I need something else?
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you need one of these:

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
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only problem is I can't find a link at the moment for one.
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Ah, ok, awesome. Thank you sdj!
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UTC quote
they work really well, worth the money. sits on the circlip. Had to open mine up a bit, it was hanging on the primary. but it's worth having.
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brok3nr0b0t wrote:
I made that stupid thing out of wood to keep the tool away from the oil seal. Is there a way to use that tool to install the crank with the seal on the outside or do I need something else?
I can see that thing out of wood working using your puller, with the addition of a large fender washer.
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UTC quote
sdjohn wrote:
they work really well, worth the money. sits on the circlip. Had to open mine up a bit, it was hanging on the primary. but it's worth having.
The circlip itself or the "housing" around it? I don't think my engine has a circlip, just the two nuts holding washers to act as a stop for the seal…I always wondered if a circlip was supposed to also go in that slot but it's not on the parts diagram for the VLB or VBC…
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UTC quote
That's a good question. I'm not sure I know your answer. It might work off those washers but I don't know. Here's a pic of it from the engine inside. You can see it rides inboard of the tabs, sitting on the circlip in my case. I'm not 100% this tool works for you.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text[/i]
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UTC quote
Ah I see. Thanks for taking the time to take a photo for me. It might work, hard to say. My dumb wood thing also might work, I'm just a little concerned the center hole isn't perfect and I don't want to pull it in at an angle. But maybe making the hole slightly larger and using a washer as Ray suggests might give it some wiggle room.

There is a Robot rebuild video where he heats the case up and is just able to stuff it in by hand so I might just try that, but I know in reality it may not be that simple.
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I stole the photo from my other thread, it was easy .

I think some of our Super fans should be along soon to answer.
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UTC quote
to me it looks like if you removed the tab washers and put the nuts so there wasn't a corner in your way, you could probably use the tool. you might even be able to use a circlip from the other style engines in the grooves you have if you wanted to. I wonder why they made that change anyway??
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
sdjohn wrote:
I think some of our Super fans should be along soon to answer.
These guys?
Da Bears
Da Bears
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UTC quote
sdjohn wrote:
I wonder why they made that change anyway??
Autolube gear rides where the premix circlip would otherwise sit.
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bodgemaster
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Yup.
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UTC quote
Makes sense now. Still never had an auto lube yet. I bet you could get a circlip just to pull it in.
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