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Hey everyone,

So I was riding. Admittedly pretty hard. Against the wind. The bike felt like it was running out of fuel. I turned the reserve on, but it still went to die, as I pulled over engine felt like it was sticking, what I would imagine what a soft seize would feel like.

Pulled over. I had fuel. The plug looked fine.

The engine was hot. I put the plug back in and went to kick it over. The engine turned but zero compression.

No idea what that is.
Any ideas?
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Sounds like an overheat seize.

Melted piston, stuck ring.
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^^^^^^^ Pull the head have a look?
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I will. Tomorrow when I get a chance.

If it was a soft seize, what are my next steps?

I mean it's freed. But zero compression. Could I have blown a seal?
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Nelluch125 wrote:
I will. Tomorrow when I get a chance.

If it was a soft seize, what are my next steps?

I mean it's freed. But zero compression. Could I have blown a seal?
Inspect it, piston maybe melted a bit, ring maybe smeared with aluminum and stuck.
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Ok. The fix would be?
New piston, rings, and cylinder rebore?
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Prognosis after the game. I wouldn't think much about it, dismount and act accordingly with the facts
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I don't know, the timing chain on my '74 Commando broke. Snapped of all four valves and pushed two through the cylinder wall. Without disassembly, I could tell with a fairly high level of certainty what the issue was. ROFL emoticon
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Nelluch125 wrote:
Hey everyone,

So I was riding. Admittedly pretty hard. Against the wind. The bike felt like it was running out of fuel. I turned the reserve on, but it still went to die, as I pulled over engine felt like it was sticking, what I would imagine what a soft seize would feel like.

Pulled over. I had fuel. The plug looked fine.

The engine was hot. I put the plug back in and went to kick it over. The engine turned but zero compression.

No idea what that is.
Any ideas?
Which scooter? Spec?
After pulling over, if the engine doesn't die, try to keep it running. They can cool enough to get you home.
Hopefully just needs cleaning up and a rejet.
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Sounds like you might have blown a hole in the piston.
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Nelluch125 wrote:
Ok. The fix would be?
New piston, rings, and cylinder rebore?
Really need to see what you have. Everything here is a guess.
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Here it is.

Looks like a nice seize.
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hjo wrote:
Sounds like you might have blown a hole in the piston.
Yep.
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Weird. That doesn't look so bad.

There's some scoring, but it has no compression? Like 0?
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Mine also felt like no compression at all with a stuck ring.
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That piston colour looks really lean. There's more going on than just stuck rings.
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Yes. Probably lean.

The cylinder head had some loose nuts as well. So probably had a cylinder head leak.

The scoring feels worse than it looks. It's gouged pretty good.
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The scoring on the cylinder is likely deposited aluminum from the piston and you may be able to just hone it.
How does the sides of the piston look?
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I hope that's all I need to do.

The piston doesn't look that bad. But I have yet to Inspect it more closely.
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If your scooter has autolube check that the oil is getting through , no blockages in the system.
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So next steps for me other than a possible home or rebore, new rings (possibly piston)? Do I need to tear down the engine to inspect seals etc?
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JOHNTEE wrote:
If your scooter has autolube check that the oil is getting through , no blockages in the system.
It's premix.
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Nelluch125 wrote:
So next steps for me other than a possible home or rebore, new rings (possibly piston)? Do I need to tear down the engine to inspect seals etc?
I always do a pressure test anytime I've had mine apart. Always find an air leak that I didn't expect.

I've cleaned aluminum deposits with a little muratic acid. No honing required depending on groove depth.

You can clean up a piston gently with a pick to get a stuck ring loose. Once you get ring loose and out you can clean up piston, polishing etc.

If you need to hone to get a groove out probably going to need an oversized piston. Once you get all that done you can pretty much buy a new kit.

That's my 5 cents with inflation these days.
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Christopher_55934 wrote:
I always do a pressure test anytime I've had mine apart. Always find an air leak that I didn't expect.

I've cleaned aluminum deposits with a little muratic acid. No honing required depending on groove depth.

You can clean up a piston gently with a pick to get a stuck ring loose. Once you get ring loose and out you can clean up piston, polishing etc.

If you need to hone to get a groove out probably going to need an oversized piston. Once you get all that done you can pretty much buy a new kit.

That's my 5 cents with inflation these days.
I hear you. Mind you, it's cheaper for me to hone polish and new rings in Canada as opposed to a new kit with shipping and exchange, on top of inflation. Gross!!
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Gents,

Would my engine need a rebuild? Thoughts?
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Nelluch125 wrote:
Gents,

Would my engine need a rebuild? Thoughts?
Nope. Just clean up the cylinder, replace the piston and re-jet minimum 10 points
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Nelluch125 wrote:
Gents,

Would my engine need a rebuild? Thoughts?
I suspect you have terminal damage to your piston.

The big factor would be the possibility aluminum and steel that had been thrown back into the big-end bearing of the crank, seals, and flyside bearing. You will have to remove your cylinder from the cases and inspect from there. . . and in no way is it possible to give you a diagnoses off of one photo here.

I would also inspect the rotary pad.
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Terminal damage is an understatement.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Well, actually the piston might be reuse-able.

Not that I would recommend it with the scoring, but free the rings and add new ones, and it should work.

Looks like a localised melt. Like mentioned by other folks here, you probably what to double check the crankshaft for debris and see if aluminium hasn't gone into the crank and further up.

Leak down test will know if the seals are healthy.
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I wouldn't use that piston. Lots of blowby already and you'd probably lose too much material smoothing out the piston and rings. If it would work, it'd really rattle.
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I wouldn't run that. The ring lands are in rough shape and are a big part of what gives you compression when the rings seal against them.
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if that's stock P2 I'd just address the cylinder and roll a fresh piston kit up in there.

that's fairly gnarly, and I imagine you dodged any collateral damage (ie the bottom end and pad) but if you're feeling saucy and have the time on your hands it wouldn't hurt to check.
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You've got some decisions to make. Depending on what the scooter is used for and how fast/original you would like it to be. And what kind of budget you're allowed. There are lots of choices from here.
With a clean up and new rings it will run. But you will need to find out why its running so lean (probably crank seals leaking).
If getting a new piston get a GS thin ring one. If the crank bearings are not great from the lean running, replace with a 60mm. If doing that, forget the GS piston and buy a cylinder kit...... exhaust...etc.etc.
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Jack221 wrote:
But you will need to find out why its running so lean (probably crank seals leaking).
Nelluch125 wrote:
The cylinder head had some loose nuts as well. So probably had a cylinder head leak.
I'd start there, but I'd still check the other usual suspects as well.

I agree on the GS piston, but if it's a mellow bike that you're not really pushing and you don't want to take it any further on the tuning I'd just roll with a stock piston.
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It's a stock scoot. Stock variables are enough for me. I upgraded the exhaust and I upjetted from a 118 to a 122. Might be too small. My other bike runs a 125 but in this scooter 125 felt boggy.
I Was also running a b7es plug (too hot maybe?).

When I went to take the cylinder head off, one of the nuts was loose so the head was leaking.

I think the issues that caused this was a mix of poor jetting and user stupidity and negligence. Ugh!!!
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B7 for around town, so you don't get carbonization, B8 for long hot hauls up hills and against the wind.

What pipe did you upgrade to? The pipe specifics make a big difference...
With my Road 2 I had the same thing happen with a 122 (although not as bad damage) on my autolubed P2. 125 is what I ride now and never a problem since (well, it's dead right now, but for another reason).

Loose head nut didn't help I'm sure, but I think it would be unwise to assume that was the cause, hone the bore, put a new piston in, and leave the jetting alone... recipe for a repeat IMO. Test the jetting well before pushing it hard.

Also bear in mind the 118 stock was reduced to 116 for autolube because the oil entered post-jet. So when people say "use a 1## and you'll be fine" they aren't necessarily giving the right advice for premix vs autolube setups. Best to dial your unique machine in yourself
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xantufrog wrote:
B7 for around town, so you don't get carbonization, B8 for long hot hauls up hills and against the wind.

What pipe did you upgrade to? The pipe specifics make a big difference...
With my Road 2 I had the same thing happen with a 122 (although not as bad damage) on my autolubed P2. 125 is what I ride now and never a problem since (well, it's dead right now, but for another reason).

Loose head nut didn't help I'm sure, but I think it would be unwise to assume that was the cause, hone the bore, put a new piston in, and leave the jetting alone... recipe for a repeat IMO. Test the jetting well before pushing it hard.

Also bear in mind the 118 stock was reduced to 116 for autolube because the oil entered post-jet. So when people say "use a 1## and you'll be fine" they aren't necessarily giving the right advice for premix vs autolube setups. Best to dial your unique machine in yourself
In my other p2 I have stock jetting with a 125 mj. I run a b8. Runs like a top (Knock wood).

This bike, the bike wouldn't start w a b8 and a 55/160 idle jet. But would start with a leaner 55/100. So I used the b7 with 55/160. Mistake.

I have a sip road 2 sport exhaust.

Again—-this happened bc of my own stupidity. I was pushing the bike way too hard for too long.

And the bike always runs awesome just before it blows up. Lol.

I'm going to put an indicator on my throttle to ensure I don't go past half and going to invest in a temp gauge this time around.

….and to think…..I thought I had this bike finally sorted. I was ready to move on to a new project.
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I've got one advice for you: Leak test your engine

You will likely be surprised.
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FINYoshi wrote:
I've got one advice for you: Leak test your engine

You will likely be surprised.
this ^
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Dually noted! Thanks gents.
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