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@slowpoke avatar
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Hooked
1952 allstate (early), 1958 allstate, 2009 S150, 2001 ET2
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Going to keep you all posted on the progress of installing a SIP electronic ignition. I do have some questions because I haven't dug into this engine before. Do I remove the flathead screws first and then the center nut? For the center nut would just a hammer and a rachet work to loosen it? I don't want to end up breaking the engine because of my ignorance. Thank you all for any advice as I go along.
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@mjrally avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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UTC quote
Unscrew the center nut. No special tool needed, it's self extracting. No need to mess with the flathead screws.
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Molto Verboso
Vespa
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Be gentle back the center nut against the circlip not too tight otherwise the circlip and or circlip groove will get damaged. Use a rubber mallet few luv taps to break free
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Hooked
1952 allstate (early), 1958 allstate, 2009 S150, 2001 ET2
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Here is where I am today. I have to make a bracket to mount there Coil and figure out how to wire the regulator. The directions say nothing about the regulator.
I will dig in deeper tomorrow.
Thanks for the tips everyone.
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The correct way would be to leave the junction in its original spot along with the brass tab underneath. An aluminum screw plus grommet in the other hole.

On your Vape ignition, you would send the blue wire to the original junction. The two ignition wires plus ground would feed out the aluminum screw. In the pic is a Pinasco ignition; different ignition but running the wires will be the same design.
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Hooked
1952 allstate (early), 1958 allstate, 2009 S150, 2001 ET2
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I am lost. I have 5 wires in total leaving. The blue would go to the junction alone? I have 2 wires from the scooter that originally connected there. An aluminum grommet something I might be able to purchase off of you? Looks like I need to make up a bracket as well, should the regulator be mounted on there as well?
Unfortunately this is totally out of my normally and breaks my brain trying to figure out. Not trying to be difficult.
I will change the wire leaving to the junction like it was originally.
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Molto Verboso
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Saw this picture and thought of your project.
Perhaps you could use 1/8" aluminum plate, cut/grind a curve so it snugs against the OD of the case, and use the flywheel cover screw(?).

If this is possible, your connections will be very straightforward from here.
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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Ray8 wrote:
Saw this picture and thought of your project.
Perhaps you could use 1/8" aluminum plate, cut/grind a curve so it snugs against the OD of the case, and use the flywheel cover screw(?).

If this is possible, your connections will be very straightforward from here.
That's a nice look. I might change mine up to that, or under the tank...
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Hooked
1952 allstate (early), 1958 allstate, 2009 S150, 2001 ET2
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Here is what I came up with.
Price of steel with countersunk screws for mounting.
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Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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UTC quote
yoooo... what happened to that motor?
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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141 Days Since Last Explosion
 
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UTC quote
greasy125 wrote:
yoooo... what happened to that motor?
Nothing a whole bunch of welding wouldn't fix. Razz emoticon
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Hooked
1952 allstate (early), 1958 allstate, 2009 S150, 2001 ET2
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UTC quote
greasy125 wrote:
yoooo... what happened to that motor?
I think it had a hard life. Was in a few pieces and put back together again.
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Addicted
Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, VR-One 228 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
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Hard life that almost ended in a catastrophic failure. Nice work on stitching it together again!
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed    ⬇️
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Hooked
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Mild winter day today and with a care package from Gick I was working on the Vespa.
Trying to figure out how to hook up the regulator and the other 2 wires from the stator.
The wiring diagram from SIP is not exactly what I have going on. The yellow wire from my scooter loom is the ground, the black I could not get continuity with anything when I tested with my meter. I don't know why that is so but the scooter lights worked prior to me starting the project.
Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks all
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76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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UTC quote
What do you know about the old harness and stator? Was it 6 or 12V? Did it have a regulator or was it the "balanced" system?

If it was the balanced AC, you're going to have to do a bit of engineering to get it working. If someone already replaced the old harness with a 12V, you'll be in a much better place.

Let us know what you're starting with and we can begin to guide you, but I'll warn you that you may wind up needing a multimeter and crimpers before all is said and donw.
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It was a 6v system with no regulator on it. The wires were replaced and would run the headlight through the slide lever switch to dim or brighten it. Then there was a taillight with no break switch or light. I have not pulled the tank to see what splicing could have been done. I have a multimeter.
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Pic of the old stator
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Ossessionato
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Slowpoke wrote:
It was a 6v system with no regulator on it. The wires were replaced and would run the headlight through the slide lever switch to dim or brighten it. Then there was a taillight with no break switch or light. I have not pulled the tank to see what splicing could have been done. I have a multimeter.
3 wires from you wiring harness at the junction???
1-AC power
2-Kill
3-Ground

guessing here. . . .but that will help.
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That is what I am assuming. Only 2 was hooked up, the. White wire I believe to be the kill switch but the switch part was broken so it was never hooked up. the yellow wire rings out to ground on the frame. I am trying to figure how to hook these wires up to the stator wires and also the regulator to it.
The wiring diagram from SIP are not the clearest in this set up.
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Slowpoke wrote:
That is what I am assuming. Only 2 was hooked up, the. White wire I believe to be the kill switch but the switch part was broken so it was never hooked up. the yellow wire rings out to ground on the frame. I am trying to figure how to hook these wires up to the stator wires and also the regulator to it.
The wiring diagram from SIP are not the clearest in this set up.
Based off the assumption, connect blue wire to regulator. Build a wire that will go from the second post of your regulator to your junction. This will be your regulated 12v .

Black wire from your stator is coming out the wrong hole. Have it come out the junction hole. Then connect to ground.

I own probably 6 early Allstates, pre 1955, 1-port engines. Not a one of them with a decent wiring harness if at all. I know the 55-57 Allstate line had a different harness than Vespa; based off that, I am unsure if 1951-1954 is different or same as v32, V33.
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I will give that a try. Sounds right.
I tried to hook up the wires that are on the scooter to a 12v battery for my modern vespa and it did nothing. Odd because I knew the bulbs worked when it was taken apart. I did test the bulbs in the socket on the bench and they worked not sure why it did not when I tried the two leads coming from the scooter.
I have that and then the timing to set up. learning alot and enjoying the simplicity of these old scooters. fun to poke around it.
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Slowpoke wrote:
I will give that a try. Sounds right.
I tried to hook up the wires that are on the scooter to a 12v battery for my modern vespa and it did nothing. Odd because I knew the bulbs worked when it was taken apart. I did test the bulbs in the socket on the bench and they worked not sure why it did not when I tried the two leads coming from the scooter.
I have that and then the timing to set up. learning alot and enjoying the simplicity of these old scooters. fun to poke around it.
If you get beyond frustrated with your harness, install a VAPE conversion harness as it will be plug & play. . . as well as new. Just looking at your harness from what is see . . that outer sheath is not stock and those wires are too new, so who really knows what you are working with there.
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The guy I bought the scooter from restores 1930s bikes for fun and is very knowledgeable. from what I see he did it right. I am being careful because I don't want to break anything.
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Molto Verboso
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Did you get a conversion switch (shutter/closer)?
Older switches ground horn power to chassis until the button is pushed (opener). You'll need a shutter with the vape's single power circuit.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/light-switch-piaggio_15185000
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Good point. I did not even consider that.
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Slowpoke wrote:
Good point. I did not even consider that.
Your switch will work.

In theory, they are both wired similarly in respect to the horn. Power to one post of the horn and the other post as a white wire that goes to the switch. Once you push your horn button, this will ground the white wire and complete the circuit. Beep, beep.

Looking at a diagram of v30-v33, there are three wires at the junction. 1)AC to switch, 2)AC to horn, and 3)wire to KILL. It very well may be the same as Allstate, something to check out anyways.
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Alright here we are today. The wiring is not the neatest and I will fix it when everything works. The piston stop I have is too small a thread to go into the head. It is an 18mm thread. Going to have to try and locate this tool.
Update. I ordered a thread adapter from NAPA. Pick up tomorrow.
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Molto Verboso
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GickSpeed wrote:
Your switch will work.

In theory, they are both wired similarly in respect to the horn. Power to one post of the horn and the other post as a white wire that goes to the switch. Once you push your horn button, this will ground the white wire and complete the circuit. Beep, beep.

Looking at a diagram of v30-v33, there are three wires at the junction. 1)AC to switch, 2)AC to horn, and 3)wire to KILL. It very well may be the same as Allstate, something to check out anyways.
The original switch on that bike was a shutter?
They don't refer to the shutter replacements as "conversion" switches, unlike the others.
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Here we are today, I got it to spark and putter.
The line to the right it top dead center and the line to the left is 18° retardation. The screwdriver is where the light is giving the mark at when it is running. It turns on for a second or two and cuts out. I need to adjust it till the light is showing the line for top dead center on the stator at the 18° mark correct? That would mean I need to move the stator clockwise correct?
I will try to get out there tomorrow and adjust.
It is coming along.
Piston stop I used.
Piston stop I used.
Top dead center mark to the right, 18° mark to the left and the timing light it showing the flywheel mark at where the screwdriver tip is.
Top dead center mark to the right, 18° mark to the left and the timing light it showing the flywheel mark at where the screwdriver tip is.
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Slowpoke wrote:
Here we are today, I got it to spark and putter.
The line to the right it top dead center and the line to the left is 18° retardation. The screwdriver is where the light is giving the mark at when it is running. It turns on for a second or two and cuts out. I need to adjust it till the light is showing the line for top dead center on the stator at the 18° mark correct? That would mean I need to move the stator clockwise correct?
I will try to get out there tomorrow and adjust.
It is coming along.
Why are you at 18 BTDC? You should be at 28 BTDC.
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Hooked
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Ah, got my information wrong. So I will re mark the case for the 28°. What way does that mean I have to move the stator plate. Counterclockwise?
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Slowpoke wrote:
Ah, got my information wrong. So I will re mark the case for the 28°. What way does that mean I have to move the stator plate. Counterclockwise?
how i do it is mark the case as the reference. Then mark you flywheel for TDC and 28 BTDC.
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Molto Verboso
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Slowpoke wrote:
Ah, got my information wrong. So I will re mark the case for the 28°. What way does that mean I have to move the stator plate. Counterclockwise?
The Vape plate has 1mm =1 degree marks.

Use your timing light result as a reference and rotate the stator counterclockwise using the marks. Take a pic of each try.

With the Vape you will find your ideal is somewhat retarded vs points spec.
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Hooked
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Sounds good. If the weather is good tomorrow I will give it another try.
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Hooked
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UTC quote
Got it mostly back together. Need to hookup the wiring harness from the scooter to the engine.
Thanks for all the help.
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